Nathanos Marris Short Story

[Captain Douchebag]

your reason is idiotic, just say you dont like when two people from different races love each other and their love produce a child as usual, which is racist (i know this word doesnt mean much now days but seriously when you hate someone that is born different but also the same as you it is kind of racist) do you know that this is a rule of nature we have seen it in our world in our history. Once upon a time a homosapien and a neanderthal found each other and decided to try make babies, so more homosapiens were born and the neanderthals were no more. In a world were more than 10 different races exist it will be fucking impossible not to have little half breed homosapiens running around and the number of neanderthals slowly reducing until they cease to exist

Good lord... Could you not?

Disliking the mixing of two races in a fantasy world because it's an overused trope and is more often than not, terribly executed, is not even remotely comparable to being against mixed race couples in the real world.

Also pretty sure the disappearance/extinction of the neanderthals is still somewhat of a mystery, so I don't know where you got your theory from. But that's off-topic anyway.

[Friendlyimmolation]

your reason is idiotic, just say you dont like when two people from different races love each other and their love produce a child as usual, which is racist (i know this word doesnt mean much now days but seriously when you hate someone that is born different but also the same as you it is kind of racist) do you know that this is a rule of nature we have seen it in our world in our history. Once upon a time a homosapien and a neanderthal found each other and decided to try make babies, so more homosapiens were born and the neanderthals were no more. In a world were more than 10 different races exist it will be fucking impossible not to have little half breed homosapiens running around and the number of neanderthals slowly reducing until they cease to exist

Another person who is unable to understand hatred of fantasy tropes and fantasy races and real life, lol. Vereesa is a shitty character, Rhonin managed to be an even worse character. Not only are two shitty characters having children, but they are also have elves. Recipe for complete writing disaster. So I will say it again, thank god Sylvanas was killed before she could pop out a half elf.

[Captain Douchebag]

thank god Sylvanas was killed before she could pop out a half elf.

Inb4 Blizzard decides it's a good idea for her to raise a zombie half-elf child.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Inb4 Blizzard decides it's a good idea for her to raise a zombie half-elf child.

Bludgeon it with Uther's hammer.

[Captain Douchebag]

Bludgeon it with Uther's hammer.

Might aswell do the same with Vereesas two monsters while we're at it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Might aswell do the same with Vereesas two monsters while we're at it.

I'm sure Rommath will kill her soon enough

hopefully.

[Niwes]

Blizzard writers are specialists in taking characters from succesful works of fiction and making them far shittier than the source material.

yep. thats something blizz slowly became good trained in

[CthulhuFhtagn]

I'm sure Rommath will kill her soon enough

hopefully.

Throw Jaina into the pile for some long overdue justice.

[Magnagarde]

They're trying to create a new generation of characters and that is exactly why characters like Nathanos are coming in, in addition to all these children(Thrall's, Vereesa's and so on). You got Greymane's daughter stepping up too, not to mention Anduin. They got something in store in the future for some already established characters like Baine.

It is clear they are trying to create a new base for new stories and arcs.

[Friendlyimmolation]

They're trying to create a new generation of characters and that is exactly why characters like Nathanos are coming in, in addition to all these children(Thrall's, Vereesa's and so on). You got Greymane's daughter stepping up too, not to mention Anduin. They got something in store in the future for some already established characters like Baine.

It is clear they are trying to create a new base for new stories and arcs.

If they ever try to use Vereesa's kids as characters to build stories off of...

Just lol. I really can't begin.

"for every one action, 5 sentences shall be used to describe their hair, and then how cool they look"

Rommath should just Go john wick on Wherever Vereesa is hanging out.

[Magnagarde]

If they ever try to use Vereesa's kids as characters to build stories off of...

Just lol. I really can't begin.

"for every one action, 5 sentences shall be used to describe their hair, and then how cool they look"

Rommath should just Go john wick on Wherever Vereesa is hanging out.

We've got Alleria, Sylvanas and Vereesa and all these three characters are about blonde hair and beauty. It is what it is. It is a motive behind Blizzard's storytelling for decades.

Literally almost all elves - especially the female ones - are taken like that, except the druids, wardens and blood knights.

[Zandalariprelate]

Man thinking about it, I think nathanos will die soon or later to maybe redeem Sylvanas or something like that because when blizzard put this kind of stories the main character almost die a few patch later, this happened to garrosh before the book tides of war was released and was kinda a foreshadow in the monster which garrosh was becoming, Kil'ruk the mantid paragon you aid and is your best pal during the quest line and arc of the mantid/klaxxi zone, his relate the motive of the swarm and he does a lot of emphasis about the old one, some months later we killed the guy with his brothers klaxxi in SoO, poor nathanos while his character don't make any sense at least he had an interesting personality and receive a good characterization

[Deleted]

Eh, to me they kind of threw character development away since they went all Chicago at the end of Season 4 with Shae inexplicably attacking Tyrion with a knife to justify him killing her. The whole High Sparrow arc was boring and dumb, Dorne was dumb, Davos asking Mel to rez Jon Snow like he was the tank with 10% left was dumb, said Jon Snow going full Leeroy into battle was dumb, his sister's fooling around with Littlefinger was dumb, Arya surviving half a dozen stab wounds in the gut was dumb... it wasn't just Danny.

To be honest, since Season 6 the show isn't mediocre anymore, it has become Blizzard Level of Storytelling. By the way, great job D&D. Slaughter the Prince of the one feminist Kingdom of Westeros, who is building up his eldest daughter to be his heir in the source material because he is a "weak man" for putting the well-being of his people over his personal vengeance. And I'm the only one who can't really see Daenerys as a hero? Like, she's by far more villainous than Joffrey and isn't not that far away from folks like Ramsay in her sadism and cruelty.

The whole human / elf romances are always disgusting.

And I have to agree with Your Frimmo. Like, this is like in this Mangas, where the most beautiful girl sticks with a total Cronk or some disgusting old guys, while living in a country that pesists of over the top beautiful men with shining white long hair, if we are to believe the way Mangas depict japan.

And I have to say the only thing that I liked is that the writer retconned the physical traits of the forsaken. They are decaying and becoming weaker than they were. I think it balances the Forsaken better, they are weaker but can survive higher damage than humans. And that there is kind of a hostillity between Argent Crusaders and Forsaken. It was always illogical for me that followers of the light are supposed to randomly accept undeads now.

Other than that, the story wasn't really well written. If we look at the story itself, it seems for me like it is supposed to be a rather emotional and tragical story. We see Sylvanas and Nathanos as the good living beings they were and the undead monsters they became, we see his cousin who was a boy dreaming of becoming a Knight and then being betrayed by his cousin and hero Nathanos, we hear the story how the tossed the coin away that Sylvanas once gave her, we are given corruption, betrayal, lost love and a glims of hope but I don't really got emotionally invested into this story. And this is bad. At no point I felt either sympathy or antipathy towards Sylvanas, Nathanos or Stephon. And normally I don't like Sylvanas or Nathanos, but I didn't even hated them during this story. I simply didn't cared at any point of this story.

[Coconut]

To be honest, since Season 6 the show isn't mediocre anymore, it has become Blizzard Level of Storytelling. By the way, great job D&D. Slaughter the Prince of the one feminist Kingdom of Westeros, who is building up his eldest daughter to be his heir in the source material because he is a "weak man" for putting the well-being of his people over his personal vengeance. And I'm the only one who can't really see Daenerys as a hero? Like, she's by far more villainous than Joffrey and isn't not that far away from folks like Ramsay in her sadism and cruelty.

It's funny that in the books Cersei's imprisonment by the Faith was the culmination of a string of bad decisions, but in the show her only mistake is getting them started, the rest of the way she's painted more like a victim, while at the same time characters like Danny, Jon, Sansa and Tyrion act like idiots pretty much every episode, yet we're meant to respect and cheer for them, and blame others when they suffer.

And don't get me started with the scene where Danny kills the khals. All she does is slowly tip over four braziers, and a dozen grown ass warriors immediately start running around like headless chickens in the fire. They're like the worst LFR group ever (complete with the two guys who died AFK-ing outside the room).

And I have to say the only thing that I liked is that the writer retconned the physical traits of the forsaken. They are decaying and becoming weaker than they were. I think it balances the Forsaken better, they are weaker but can survive higher damage than humans. And that there is kind of a hostillity between Argent Crusaders and Forsaken. It was always illogical for me that followers of the light are supposed to randomly accept undeads now.

Other than that, the story wasn't really well written. If we look at the story itself, it seems for me like it is supposed to be a rather emotional and tragical story. We see Sylvanas and Nathanos as the good living beings they were and the undead monsters they became, we see his cousin who was a boy dreaming of becoming a Knight and then being betrayed by his cousin and hero Nathanos, we hear the story how the tossed the coin away that Sylvanas once gave her, we are given corruption, betrayal, lost love and a glims of hope but I don't really got emotionally invested into this story. And this is bad. At no point I felt either sympathy or antipathy towards Sylvanas, Nathanos or Stephon. And normally I don't like Sylvanas or Nathanos, but I didn't even hated them during this story. I simply didn't cared at any point of this story.

I don't really like the "threat of extinction" theme in Warcraft. Pretty much every playable race, except maybe dwarves and pandas. has that theme. They all suffered at least one major genocide in recent history, or are dying out for some reason. But the truth is you can't reflect this in game, because playable races are gonna get played, and every now and then you will have to develop them and add new NPCs in new areas, including killable ones for quests and events, so players will never feel like the race is dying out in game, they will feel like the race is expanding and growing in strength.

I think the problem with stories and novels about Sylvanas and the Forsaken is that they always try to go dark. They are single minded, they don't have emotions, they're evil, they do damnable things, they rot and decay and stink... And sure, there are a lot of dark stories in WoW, but they are always overshadowed by the lighter, pop culture referencing nature of the game.

When you look how the Forsaken are represented visually, how their quests and dialogues sound in game, there's a lot of Tim Burton there - elements from The Nightmare Before Christmas, Corpse Bride, Beetlejuice - with a good sprinkle of The Addams Family. Yes, they're monsters, but they're also quirky, and a great deal of the violence associated with them is played for laughs.

You also see Forsaken characters with a great range of personalities and emotions, especially after Wotlk. You have characters like Kirin from MoP, or like Cullen in Stormheim, or that dude in Silverpine who sacrifices himself to save the player in a quest. You have that chick in Hillsbrad telling you about the "high life" of being a quest giver, you have an undead shrink psychoanalyzing some orcs, you have freshly raised Forsaken looking forward to their new un-life. Even Sylvanas and Nathanos have some competitive banter when they are attacked by demons at Vol'jin's funeral that does a better job at setting up these character's relationship and the depth of their emotions than this short story (although the story details the lore better).

The game itself doesn't make it seem like the Forsaken are doing that badly. They mostly accept and enjoy what they are. If anything, I'm surprised there aren't more characters who actually want to become Forsaken. Certainly there are humans (and elves) out there who, like Sylvanas, would rather delay their deaths. More importantly, there should be some who would be willing to sacrifice the purity of their souls for a chance to keep fighting the Legion. I mean, Varian himself on the Broken Shore should have been like "Fuck our souls! They're gonna be fuel for the Legion anyway if they win. You better raise every single one of my men when they die in battle, these stakes are way higher than any qualms about undeath". Now the Legion and the Feltotem are raising them in 7.2.

[Deleted]

It's funny that in the books Cersei's imprisonment by the Faith was the culmination of a string of bad decisions, but in the show her only mistake is getting them started, the rest of the way she's painted more like a victim, while at the same time characters like Danny, Jon, Sansa and Tyrion act like idiots pretty much every episode, yet we're meant to respect and cheer for them, and blame others when they suffer.

And don't get me started with the scene where Danny kills the khals. All she does is slowly tip over four braziers, and a dozen grown ass warriors immediately start running around like headless chickens in the fire. They're like the worst LFR group ever (complete with the two guys who died AFK-ing outside the room).

Don't forget the misscasting of Euron Greyjoy, who is currently one of my favorite charactery because he's such an ambigious and yet truly evil character. George R R Martin has a very cinematic writing style and Euron Greyjoy is in my opinion an example of that. His physical description alone makes him a truly interesting character, cleary dark and creepy, but also with a certain sexyness. But we really have reached the point where all I hope for is that we get some day a better visual adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, that sticks with the book. The problem is, you can't do anything but root for Cersei, Jon, Sansa, Arya or Tyrion, they are all the main characters that are left, while in the books we have so many different factions and characters from which you can chose your favorites. The Main Protagonists are more the characters you root for when you read the book for the first time, until you unravel more and more of the hidden story with each reread and grow found of other characters. Plus, the Show has killed Stannis the Mannis in the worst possible way. And we even don't saw his great humor in the show.

[quote] don't really like the "threat of extinction" theme in Warcraft. Pretty much every playable race, except maybe dwarves and pandas. has that theme. They all suffered at least one major genocide in recent history, or are dying out for some reason. But the truth is you can't reflect this in game, because playable races are gonna get played, and every now and then you will have to develop them and add new NPCs in new areas, including killable ones for quests and events, so players will never feel like the race is dying out in game, they will feel like the race is expanding and growing in strength.[quote]

It's more like that Blizz plots without giving a fuck.

I think the problem with stories and novels about Sylvanas and the Forsaken is that they always try to go dark. They are single minded, they don't have emotions, they're evil, they do damnable things, they rot and decay and stink... And sure, there are a lot of dark stories in WoW, but they are always overshadowed by the lighter, pop culture referencing nature of the game.

Personally, I think the whole light-hearted Parts of the Forsaken are not really well thought as well. Sure, you can go with an evil race and make them fun. More in the direction of black comedy or typical trash-stories, where the protagonist is a total psychopath who kills, does horrible stuff and has a great time doing so while remaining charismatic. But for doing that, you have to acknowledge the inherint evilness of your main-protagonist. Blizz on the other hand...I don't know. They want to portray the Forsaken as dark and evil while justifying everything they do, so that they are not toooo evil. Like how they describe the raising of the new forsaken.

When you look how the Forsaken are represented visually, how their quests and dialogues sound in game, there's a lot of Tim Burton there - elements from The Nightmare Before Christmas, Corpse Bride, Beetlejuice - with a good sprinkle of The Addams Family. Yes, they're monsters, but they're also quirky, and a great deal of the violence associated with them is played for laughs.

There are some good moments, but personally I think most of the time the jokes are rather cheap.

The game itself doesn't make it seem like the Forsaken are doing that badly. They mostly accept and enjoy what they are. If anything, I'm surprised there aren't more characters who actually want to become Forsaken. Certainly there are humans (and elves) out there who, like Sylvanas, would rather delay their deaths. More importantly, there should be some who would be willing to sacrifice the purity of their souls for a chance to keep fighting the Legion. I mean, Varian himself on the Broken Shore should have been like "Fuck our souls! They're gonna be fuel for the Legion anyway if they win. You better raise every single one of my men when they die in battle, these stakes are way higher than any qualms about undeath". Now the Legion and the Feltotem are raising them in 7.2.

I don't see why people would want to be Forsaken. In every case it is described as a curse, it is hell and destroys you, turns you into a monster. What can make the Forsaken charismatic is not the fact that undead is fun, but rather that they accept the bad circumstances they are in with black humor and cynicism. They do the best and worst with what they have. But on the other Hand, your approach how the other races should react seems to me rather...fanboy. You do the same as Blizz is doing with other races when it comes to undeath, ignoring their cultural and religious backgrounds which should take a great part in who the characters are. And after all, the Humans are followers of the light, their moral conventions teach them that undeads are bad and not worth existing, that dark magic is evil and that unnatural things should be fought.

[Coconut]

Don't forget the misscasting of Euron Greyjoy, who is currently one of my favorite charactery because he's such an ambigious and yet truly evil character. George R R Martin has a very cinematic writing style and Euron Greyjoy is in my opinion an example of that. His physical description alone makes him a truly interesting character, cleary dark and creepy, but also with a certain sexyness. But we really have reached the point where all I hope for is that we get some day a better visual adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, that sticks with the book. The problem is, you can't do anything but root for Cersei, Jon, Sansa, Arya or Tyrion, they are all the main characters that are left, while in the books we have so many different factions and characters from which you can chose your favorites. The Main Protagonists are more the characters you root for when you read the book for the first time, until you unravel more and more of the hidden story with each reread and grow found of other characters. Plus, the Show has killed Stannis the Mannis in the worst possible way. And we even don't saw his great humor in the show.

The most retarded thing about the Kingsmoot on the show was that Asha/Yara lost it even though she had enough supporters to IMMEDIATELY STEAL LIKE 60 SHIPS! I mean, there were fewer people at the Kingsmoot than we saw ships in their escape scenes.

And I agree about Stannis the Mannis, he's such a great character and his ending veered into Benny Hill territory. The funny thing is, I can see him burning Shireen in the books, but if he does it it will be in the fight against the Others and it will make dramatic sense.

It's more like that Blizz plots without giving a fuck.

I think writing in games should be held to different standards than literature or film, particularly when the game isn't primarily narrative-driven. A certain level of inconsistency and cliche is acceptable, because it is subservient to gameplay and marketing (in the form of popular themes and characters the developers want to push). So the writers have to make the best of what they are told to work with rather than telling the other departments to work around their narrative.

Take Grom in WoD for example. He was probably set up to have a longer story arc, or maybe even be the main villain, but because they ran out of time and decided to cut a tier at some point in development, they had to make due without the arc he was set up for in 6.0.

Personally, I think the whole light-hearted Parts of the Forsaken are not really well thought as well. Sure, you can go with an evil race and make them fun. More in the direction of black comedy or typical trash-stories, where the protagonist is a total psychopath who kills, does horrible stuff and has a great time doing so while remaining charismatic. But for doing that, you have to acknowledge the inherint evilness of your main-protagonist. Blizz on the other hand...I don't know. They want to portray the Forsaken as dark and evil while justifying everything they do, so that they are not toooo evil. Like how they describe the raising of the new forsaken.

I don't see why people would want to be Forsaken. In every case it is described as a curse, it is hell and destroys you, turns you into a monster. What can make the Forsaken charismatic is not the fact that undead is fun, but rather that they accept the bad circumstances they are in with black humor and cynicism. They do the best and worst with what they have. But on the other Hand, your approach how the other races should react seems to me rather...fanboy. You do the same as Blizz is doing with other races when it comes to undeath, ignoring their cultural and religious backgrounds which should take a great part in who the characters are. And after all, the Humans are followers of the light, their moral conventions teach them that undeads are bad and not worth existing, that dark magic is evil and that unnatural things should be fought.

I don't know, I personally find the Tim Borton approach more compelling, because it challenges the traditional attitudes towards death and at the same time it lends itself to more character development as opposed to being one note. I prefer to see Forsaken with diverse personalities instead of damned souls all the time, maybe with a Leonid Batholomew thrown in as the exception that demonstrates the rule. The dark humor doesn't have to be there, but it's not that out of place considering the wide range of tones other races are presented in.

Undeath being a "curse" is more of a cultural thing stemming from the real world, particularly medieval and renaissance christian imagery and themes. It's often presented like this in game, especially when we have to fight an undeath themed big bad, but it's never explained or supported by facts. The game is never consistent in its depiction of undeath, souls, rebirth and the afterlife. We have:

- Undeath fueled by Old Gods
- Undeath fueled by titan constructs
- Undeath fueled by the Legion
- Undeath achieved through chemical plagues and electric devices
- Necromancy as a school of Arcane magic
- Souls who consider themselves "cursed" but otherwise act like normal characters
- Aimless and confused souls
- Souls used as fuel (including by player characters)
- Souls enslaved by the big bad who in other situations would have used them as fuel
- Serene souls or "spirits" that show up to guide the living
- Spirits that regenerate back to life in spiritual places such as The Emerald Dream
- Souls that go from body to body
- Races that are big on the after life, and have their own god of the dead (trolls)
- Spirits that linger around for revenge, or join you as a follower (hello, Admiral Taylor)
- Spirits that hang around to help trees grow (wisps)
- Spirits turned into creature that champion the Light, such as Val'kyr and Valarjar
- Spirits turned into minions of darkness (this and the former aren't necessarily connected to leading a good or bad life, but who manages to nab you after you die)
- Souls transferred into constructs (both the shadowy trolls and the light-worshiping Auchenai do this)
- Souls stored in some earthly mausoleum (also Auchenai)
- Souls being lifted up directly by a Na'aru, like that sick soldier in Icecrown, and this is great because it's a Christian analogy
- Souls that are literally consumed by a Na'aru once it goes dark (I mean... is this always a risk? Maybe Na'aru Heaven isn't such a great idea)
- Souls that earn "eternal rest" just in a generic way
- Souls that are fine and dandy and their old selves after spending years inside Frostmourne
- Living beings who slowly become undead without actually dying, like Meryl Felstorm
- Undead raised as mindless zombies
- Sentient undead that are scarred for eternity
- Sentient undead that act like normal people
- Living but brainwashed individuals of various races (nighborne, blood elf, gnome, etc) that we treat like mindless zombies
- Plant or spore zombies created by Primals by attaching themselves to the living
- People who worship death and/or the idea of being raised in undeath (from the Cult of the Damned to Vrykul)
- Mummies (mostly troll mummies)
- Dead demons slowly being resurrected from a corpse instead of being reborn in the Nether
- Undead creatures made from multiple corpses (generally acting like a single individual)
- "Memories" of characters that act like they have agency
- Fossilized animals coming alive when dug out, no necromancer required
- Powerful individuals being raised from a corpse after thousands of years and acting pleased about it, with no signs of undeath (Lei Shen)
- Dead heroes being returned to their bodies because their soul is immortal


I probably missed some, and I'm pretty sure this is a wide enough mix of themes that the truth lies somewhere around "whatever you want to make of it".

[Deleted]

i hope illidan makes up with a human and pops out half human elf demon babies just so that i can see you people moan in despair

<-- snip -->

Infracted.

[Friendlyimmolation]

i hope illidan makes up with a human and pops out half human elf demon babies just so that i can see you people moan in despair

[IMG]https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder78/37976078.jpg[IMG]

Aren't you like a self proclaimed know it all illidan fanboy? He follows Tyrande around like a puppy.

[Captain Douchebag]

i hope illidan makes up with a human and pops out half human elf demon babies just so that i can see you people moan in despair

And I hope people around here will stop spouting nonsense if they are incapable of handling it, when they get called out on said nonsense.

Great dreams.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And I hope people around here will stop spouting nonsense if they are incapable of handling it, when they get called out on said nonsense.

Great dreams.

Maybe set goals for smaller dreams first.