Four-year-old girl among refugees raped in Greece as thousands of asylum seekers trap

[lonely zergling]

Not surprising. The camps just put a whole bunch of people together in a closed zone that is practically lawless, with no infrastructure to enforce laws or keep peace.

Fixing it would require enourmous resources that Greece just doesn't have.

We had/have the same problems with massive violence against woman/rape/prostitution in refugee centres in germany, if it happens in rich germany then there is no way for poor greece to solve this problem.

In germany the security personal (mostly dudes with similar cultural background) even took place in those crimes in some places. The problem seems to be cultural.

Media choose to remain mainly silent on this topic because it would cause even more upwind to the righties. Refugee wellbeing doenst matter to leftist all they want is to feel morally superior.

[SherriMayim]

Greece doesn't have the resources to deal with migrants from Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Syria aka the last 20 years.

It is put up or shut up time for Merkel and the pro refugee European crowd.

Problem with the Merkel crowd 'put up' option is that they don't personally deal with it. Everyone else has to put up with their shit decisions.

I still haven't heard from JK Rowling using her mansions to house refugees. But Britain should welcome them!

[Concequence]

So, all you people who are anti-Muslim in here. What if you were Muslim. Just imagine this, you did not believe that Allah promotes rape, and you are not violent, and abhor violence. You want to freely believe in your God, but are totally willing to follow the laws of the land you are in. When people like you guys, demonize your religion... how would you feel?

I mean so lets say this, Someone says, Jesus married a 8-9 year old. and Yaweh or whatever, is totally into killing infidels, and looks favorably on Christians for that. I say next, all Christians are evil, the religion is the cause, Ban all Christians. How do you feel?

First you'd feel like I was attacking you personally. Because you believe in Your god, and you aren't like that. You'd be angry that anyone believes such horrible things about you, and your family. You'd be afraid, because you cannot turn on your God, its your entire belief system, but you don't want to be banned from your home. You don't want to be hated by your neighbors, you want people to know you are a good person, who believes in good things.

Can you even imagine that? ... I'm sure you will say, well its different for me, because "A B or C" .... But honestly put yourself in that place, and what could you even do about it. How could you convince people who hate you so much, that you are not a bad person, and you do not agree with the bad things some people in your religion do. ... those Muslims are living in a really bad time right now. And just protecting ourselves while letting them suffer is not the righteous path. Don't turn your backs on people who need help. Its immoral.

[Revi]

So, all you people who are anti-Muslim in here. What if you were Muslim. Just imagine this, you did not believe that Allah promotes rape, and you are not violent, and abhor violence. You want to freely believe in your God, but are totally willing to follow the laws of the land you are in. When people like you guys, demonize your religion... how would you feel?

I mean so lets say this, Someone says, Jesus married a 8-9 year old. and Yaweh or whatever, is totally into killing infidels, and looks favorably on Christians for that. I say next, all Christians are evil, the religion is the cause, Ban all Christians. How do you feel?

First you'd feel like I was attacking you personally. Because you believe in Your god, and you aren't like that. You'd be angry that anyone believes such horrible things about you, and your family. You'd be afraid, because you cannot turn on your God, its your entire belief system, but you don't want to be banned from your home. You don't want to be hated by your neighbors, you want people to know you are a good person, who believes in good things.

Can you even imagine that? ... I'm sure you will say, well its different for me, because "A B or C" .... But honestly put yourself in that place, and what could you even do about it. How could you convince people who hate you so much, that you are not a bad person, and you do not agree with the bad things some people in your religion do. ... those Muslims are living in a really bad time right now. And just protecting ourselves while letting them suffer is not the righteous path. Don't turn your backs on people who need help. Its immoral.

Moral indignation is all well and good, but what do you suggest be done to solve this whole mess?

Politicians, media and people have been fighting over who has the moral high ground for years now and debating it to death, but it doesn't seem to do much to improve reality.

[Jastall]

I can just laugh at the internet tough guys who think these people are in an easy situation, You guys are just impossible to take seriously, and no one thinks you're cool because you pretend that ''survival of the fittest'' is what you think it is.

Anyway, as to the OP, there's no magical solution to this. Refugee camps are shitholes as a rule, and there's no way Greece has the resources to manage this.

[lonely zergling]

I can just laugh at the internet tough guys who think these people are in an easy situation, You guys are just impossible to take seriously, and no one thinks you're cool because you pretend that ''survival of the fittest'' is what you think it is.

Anyway, as to the OP, there's no magical solution to this. Refugee camps are shitholes as a rule, and there's no way Greece has the resources to manage this.

I doubt that rape is needed to survive.

[Kalis]

So, all you people who are anti-Muslim in here. What if you were Muslim. Just imagine this, you did not believe that Allah promotes rape, and you are not violent, and abhor violence. You want to freely believe in your God, but are totally willing to follow the laws of the land you are in. When people like you guys, demonize your religion... how would you feel?

I mean so lets say this, Someone says, Jesus married a 8-9 year old. and Yaweh or whatever, is totally into killing infidels, and looks favorably on Christians for that. I say next, all Christians are evil, the religion is the cause, Ban all Christians. How do you feel?

First you'd feel like I was attacking you personally. Because you believe in Your god, and you aren't like that. You'd be angry that anyone believes such horrible things about you, and your family. You'd be afraid, because you cannot turn on your God, its your entire belief system, but you don't want to be banned from your home. You don't want to be hated by your neighbors, you want people to know you are a good person, who believes in good things.

Can you even imagine that? ... I'm sure you will say, well its different for me, because "A B or C" .... But honestly put yourself in that place, and what could you even do about it. How could you convince people who hate you so much, that you are not a bad person, and you do not agree with the bad things some people in your religion do. ... those Muslims are living in a really bad time right now. And just protecting ourselves while letting them suffer is not the righteous path. Don't turn your backs on people who need help. Its immoral.

I am Anglican, Anglicans do not give a shit if you insult other Anglicans or Anglicanism. Anglicans insult Anglicanism. An extremist Anglican is someone who writes a letter to the local newspaper moaning about Christmas decorations going up in November.

If you are upset that people are insulting your religion, then tough titties.

[Deleted]

I can just laugh at the internet tough guys who think these people are in an easy situation, You guys are just impossible to take seriously, and no one thinks you're cool because you pretend that ''survival of the fittest'' is what you think it is.

Anyway, as to the OP, there's no magical solution to this. Refugee camps are shitholes as a rule, and there's no way Greece has the resources to manage this.

Well, I don't give a shit about the situation they are in when they commit crime, it is never right to hurt other people unless it's for protecting yourself. As far as I'm concerned we should just end the criminals lives.

[Jastall]

I doubt that rape is needed to survive.

Sure isn't, but I wasn't talking about that, and more about the need and desire for people to get the hell out of dodge when shit hits the fan. Which then leads to situations where there's very little social order, true, but a warzone is if anything even worse. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

And given what I studied of history, it's not like Europeans or Americans behaved much better in situations of crisis or war. Sometimes they behaved quite a bit worse in fact.

And I was having my own laugh at those who seem to believe that, in a similar situation, they'd go full Rambo and solve every problem by themselves.

[Sunseeker]

The choice is fight for your country. The majority of refugees are military age men.

You mean join the Russia-funded army controlled by the murderous dictator who runs your country? Or the West-funded untrained rebel groups who aim to murder everyone who doesn't wear the badge they fancy today?

These people don't love their country. They have no reason to. Their leader is a horrifying person who murders innocents on a whim. What do they have to fight for? They may not want to leave but they've got no incentive to stay either.

These people aren't Batman. They aren't trained soldiers. They aren't idealistic revolutionaries. They're farmers. Cashiers. Day-laborers. They're people who want to go about their 24/7 without their leader or the local radicals murdering them.

[SherriMayim]

So... Kind of like how the State Militias got together and fought off the most powerful Empire known to man?

It's not impossible, it just takes self determination and a willingness to sacrifice.

[kail]

Among 62,000 people? Most likely not. And yet Europeans want people with these kind of values in their country. It's completely maddening.

We catch criminals among higher population densities. If they are using a poor system to document the refugees, then shame on the government.

[Rennadrel]

We catch criminals among higher population densities. If they are using a poor system to document the refugees, then shame on the government.

Most of them probably aren't documented, not to mention the security systems are likely non existent in the refugee camps.

[Masark]

So... Kind of like how the State Militias got together and fought off the most powerful Empire known to man?

It's not impossible, it just takes self determination and a willingness to sacrifice.

And extensive funding and support from a major military power who wants to mess with their enemy.

[kail]

Most of them probably aren't documented, not to mention the security systems are likely non existent in the refugee camps.

Right there is a huge flaw on the system from the get go.

[SherriMayim]

And extensive funding and support from a major military power who wants to mess with their enemy.

Sure.

After State Officials lobbied the French over the benefits of defeating a common Ally.

And the French weren't letting 'refugees' come over either.

The Americans had to PROVE themselves before getting assistance. If there was a sect of Syrians that were interested in toppling ISIS and Assad with the honest intention of becoming a Westernized Nation the US would be falling over themselves to help out.

But they're not. They're not interested in fighting for their homeland, they just want someone else to foot the bill.

I say we let them all rot in their own filth.

[Deleted]

So, all you people who are anti-Muslim in here. What if you were Muslim. Just imagine this, you did not believe that Allah promotes rape, and you are not violent, and abhor violence. You want to freely believe in your God, but are totally willing to follow the laws of the land you are in. When people like you guys, demonize your religion... how would you feel?

I mean so lets say this, Someone says, Jesus married a 8-9 year old. and Yaweh or whatever, is totally into killing infidels, and looks favorably on Christians for that. I say next, all Christians are evil, the religion is the cause, Ban all Christians. How do you feel?

First you'd feel like I was attacking you personally. Because you believe in Your god, and you aren't like that. You'd be angry that anyone believes such horrible things about you, and your family. You'd be afraid, because you cannot turn on your God, its your entire belief system, but you don't want to be banned from your home. You don't want to be hated by your neighbors, you want people to know you are a good person, who believes in good things.

Can you even imagine that? ... I'm sure you will say, well its different for me, because "A B or C" .... But honestly put yourself in that place, and what could you even do about it. How could you convince people who hate you so much, that you are not a bad person, and you do not agree with the bad things some people in your religion do. ... those Muslims are living in a really bad time right now. And just protecting ourselves while letting them suffer is not the righteous path. Don't turn your backs on people who need help. Its immoral.

1st time is a coincidence
2nd time is bad luck
3rd time is a pattern.
You don't think that repeated comments about how your religion is barbaric might cause introspection? You don't think it might move it towards reformation for the modern age? Islam is pretty much the last religion that has not undergone reformation for the modern ages, despite a select individuals who wish to help it along in their own communities, but they are a vast minority, due to being overcrowded by the "moderate" muslims.

You mean join the Russia-funded army controlled by the murderous dictator who runs your country? Or the West-funded untrained rebel groups who aim to murder everyone who doesn't wear the badge they fancy today?

These people don't love their country. They have no reason to. Their leader is a horrifying person who murders innocents on a whim. What do they have to fight for? They may not want to leave but they've got no incentive to stay either.

These people aren't Batman. They aren't trained soldiers. They aren't idealistic revolutionaries. They're farmers. Cashiers. Day-laborers. They're people who want to go about their 24/7 without their leader or the local radicals murdering them.

Farmers, cashiers and day laborers of europe have managed to stem the tides of repeated historic invasions of europe for millenia. Sure, the ruler in question makes the decisions, ore often than not, but in the end soldiers need support to be effective, be it through supplied food and medicine, or sheer number of bodies.

Absolutely a retarded and uninformed thing thing to say when it's usually a totalitarian state versus Islamic terrorists.

Just goes to show you can't think beyond your own safe existence in a democracy.

A well functioning dictatorship is preferable to a poorly executed democracy. About half of the democracies in the world are not actual democracies, and people who are disillusioned to the reality of life have noticed this too. As dramatic as it may sound, you yourself have to admit that alot of the modern world does not have the interest of the demos in mind.
During european history, I doubt many people went to war with invades due to the call to arms from their leader and belief in some higher ideology. They went to protect their families and their holdings, however few there were.

[Deleted]

Totally at a loss why people are choosing to collapse their own culture, their own safety, and their own future for this madness.

Precisely... left wing populists.

[kamuimac]

The choice if fight for your country. The majority of refugees are military age men.
.

thing is - its not anymore - it might have been obvious choice 100 year ago when most of population were illiterate uneducated simple people - but education is double edge sword - nobody want to loose there life for interests of other big fat oil barrons anymore

the notion of "country" if also lost - and main culprit for it is ... internet - countires at the moment just a nearly virtual concept nothing more - national pride is so overrated - most people have skills which will let them pack bags and start living anywhere - it was impossible 100 years ago when 95 % of society consisted of peasants but now ?

even language barrier doesnt really exist anymore - here in Poland for example even public schools teach 2 foreign languages - which means anyone who finishes eduaction has basic skills to communicate in at least 2 other langages and he can start work in any of cuntries that use them - granted maybe he wont be amazing at it - but - it will be enough to destroy language barrier in most basic jobs and give him a living.

[Tackhisis]

here in Poland for example even public schools teach 2 foreign languages - which means anyone who finishes eduaction has basic skills to communicate in at least 2 other langages and he can start work in any of cuntries that use them

School-level foreign languages are not enough to start work anywhere.