To fly or not to fly.

[Deleted]

As always, everyone who's against flying that i know and that has the required achievement is using flying mounts. Big surprise.

But!!

What if we had a quest that either gave us flying or a really cool ground mount and a badass title?

I wonder if the anti-flight people would actually hold on to their conviction that flying is terrible and go for the 2nd option.

Would you be a bad-ass or part of the pleb

Flight form is part of Druid class. It would be kinda silly to not choose to use that part.
It's already kinda silly that you have to "forget" how to shift into your flight form for half of the expac.

I understand that flying trivialized lot of the world content - but these sort of lockouts are immersion breaking. Either have flying or don't.

[Deleted]

I you stop reading at my post? One answer to this was given in the second reply to the thread.

You can be against flying, but still use it if it is there. Because not doing so puts you at a disadvantage.
If you don't use flying when it is available, then as a gatherer you don't really have a fair chance at the profession nodes. This would force you to use flying, even if you would preffer not to.

Personally I don't really care. I could live without flyin, but if it is there I am gonna use it.

Is gathering professions the only thing you can come up with? Because gathering nodes now are shared by all players. Also gathering is pretty much the worst way to make gold anyway, so I don't see the disadvantage.

And if it was such a big problem, then Blizzard could simply make gathering nodes 100% personal to each player. There. Problem solved. We don't need to get rid of flying.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It really depends on the mount and title, but most likely that, even still.

[Thage]

Is gathering professions the only thing you can come up with? Because gathering nodes now are shared by all players. Also gathering is pretty much the worst way to make gold anyway, so I don't see the disadvantage.

And if it was such a big problem, then Blizzard could simply make gathering nodes 100% personal to each player. There. Problem solved. We don't need to get rid of flying.

TBH, at this point gathering markets have bottomed out so badly on many servers, if you're that set against flying you can just manipulate the auction house, corner a market, and make more gold faster than riding or flying around and farming nodes. And this is without flying, even--ore and herb markets just never recovered from WoD, despite the lack of readily-available personal mines and gardens in Legion.

[Deleted]

TBH, at this point gathering markets have bottomed out so badly on many servers, if you're that set against flying you can just manipulate the auction house, corner a market, and make more gold faster than riding or flying around and farming nodes. And this is without flying, even--ore and herb markets just never recovered from WoD, despite the lack of readily-available personal mines and gardens in Legion.

Yeah I don't even bother with gathering anymore. I just sell glyphs, flasks and potions. I've probably made around 10 million gold since Legion launched, with minimal effort. Only thing that takes a bit of effort now that I'll do is craft legendaries, but depending on how prices go, I might drop that, too. But the first one at least gave me 350k.

[Deleted]

As i always say in this kind of thread.

There are two gruop of people, both extreme and stupid: 1) The "no fly no sub" guy / 2) The "fly is so bad for the game i will never mount because i love the landscape".

And guess what, they have ONE BIG THING in COMMON.

They both lie.

[Pull My Finger]

As always, everyone who's against flying that i know and that has the required achievement is using flying mounts. Big surprise.

But!!

What if we had a quest that either gave us flying or a really cool ground mount and a badass title?

I wonder if the anti-flight people would actually hold on to their conviction that flying is terrible and go for the 2nd option.

Would you be a bad-ass or part of the pleb

You gotta understand, they don't like flying and don't want to fly, but if they can fly, they absolutely must fly and definitely want to fly, but actually don't want to fly. Yeah, it makes total sense.

[Fat Mac]

YEEEAAAHHHH!

[Deleted]

One of the biggest reasons for no flying, as discussed already to no-end, is PvP servers. You cannot force other people to stop flying on a PvP server, so not flying yourself just makes it stupid.

If I was actively still playing PvP servers I would not want flying. I'm on a PvE server and still don't give a shit about flying (I have it), it has no use besides like the 4 quests a day, or levelling alts... at a push.

Nice bate though. Inb4 lock.

This exact situation you are describing is actually just wishful thinking. There's no such thing as active world PvP on PvP realms since vanilla, if anything it's just ganking.

[Deleted]

Flying is unlocked account-wide. Mounts and titles are account-wide (bar pvp/rep/class requirements). Do the quest on two alts. Pick mount and title with one alt. Pick flying with the other alt. Get all rewards. Win.

Not if the quest was once per account.

[Soisoisoi]

This exact situation you are describing is actually just wishful thinking. There's no such thing as active world PvP on PvP realms since vanilla, if anything it's just ganking.

That's where you're wrong, as someone who has actively played PvP servers from the start, there is a lot of active world PvP if you know where to find it. Me and my friends actively went onto Outland EU Horde (99% alliance server) and played against the masses through MoP and the start of WoD. We had countless team fights, 1vX, etc. Ganking was involved sure, but not all of it - hell, not even most of it.

The only downside to MoP's WPvP was flying - So many people CCing/Shadowmelding and flying away. Got boring fast. WoD was just Garrisons throughout so flying made no difference.

[Ielenia]

Not if the quest was once per account.

And why should it be? What reason do you have to make it 'all or nothing'? Either "all your characters in your entire account have access to flying" or "none of your characters in your entire account have access to flying"?

[Deleted]

That's where you're wrong, as someone who has actively played PvP servers from the start, there is a lot of active world PvP if you know where to find it. Me and my friends actively went onto Outland EU Horde (99% alliance server) and played against the masses through MoP and the start of WoD. We had countless team fights, 1vX, etc. Ganking was involved sure, but not all of it - hell, not even most of it.

The only downside to MoP's WPvP was flying - So many people CCing/Shadowmelding and flying away. Got boring fast. WoD was just Garrisons throughout so flying made no difference.

And what changed? TBC, LK, Cata and MoP had flight right from max. level. Do you even have a point except for that you and your friends spent your time looking for world PvP, even on different realms, lol.

[SirCowdog]

As always, everyone who's against flying that i know and that has the required achievement is using flying mounts. Big surprise.

But!!

What if we had a quest that either gave us flying or a really cool ground mount and a badass title?

I wonder if the anti-flight people would actually hold on to their conviction that flying is terrible and go for the 2nd option.

Would you be a bad-ass or part of the pleb

Or...ya know...Blizzard could design the game and the mounted system to where there was a better choice between the two.

I'll be the first to tell people to forget what anyone else is doing and just play how you want, but that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the fact that flying is just outright stronger in Blizzard's current design. I mean, even just setting flying and ground mounts to the same 150 base speed(with modifiers for pathfinder) would go a long way to shutting down all the complaints about not being able to stay on the ground because of having to "stay competitive"(lol)

[Soisoisoi]

And what changed? TBC, LK, Cata and MoP had flight right from max. level. Do you even have a point except for that you and your friends spent your time looking for world PvP, even on different realms, lol.

The realm was noted because we usually play PvE servers for our raiding and I'd mentioned that previously - saves confusion since half the people here don't read. No other reason.

PvP can be found on any active realm, but is made a lot harder [to find and participate in] when flying is involved for the reasons I've already explained. Expansions that didn't have no-fly zones during flying content (e.g. IoQD) WPvP was pretty crap after flying was "enabled". WoD would have been great if there was any reason to be out in the world. MoP was great fun with the PvP vendors out in the world, the walls were always active, but flying made it frustrating. Legion, minus tanks at the start and the lack of PvP templates in the world, has also been great since the world is extremely active.

[Faenskap]

It'd need to be one hell of a ground mount. Daze immune (fuck that shit), able to run/swim for the more watery areas, withstand fall damage, can stay mounted while in combat/interacting with objects... I just don't see that happening :P

[Sinndra]

WPvP was pretty crap after flying was "enabled". WoD would have been great if there was any reason to be out in the world. MoP was great fun with the PvP vendors out in the world, the walls were always active, but flying made it frustrating. Legion, minus tanks at the start and the lack of PvP templates in the world, has also been great since the world is extremely active.

i dont doubt it was frustrating, i do believe people that just up and fly to a high hover, do so because: a) a player with better skill or better gear showed up and ruined their "fun" or b) they were out numbered, making their "fun" difficult to do. and "fun" in this case was a player trying to exploit and harass, with no serious intention of toe to toe battles.

there is just any number of reasons people decide to avoid WPvP and just hover safely out of range, not just i have flying so im gonna make this other person wish i would come down and fight.

still, despite how you think flying by itself is a detriment to WPvP... making WPvP more lucrative would do far more for WPvP than removing or gating flying does for the players.

[SoulForge]

Anyone who said anything about WPvP should know that ship has sailed. There is no attempts at balance when it comes to WPvP and it is destroyed.

Good Riddance.

[Deleted]

It's one thing to be against flying if you believe flying shouldn't be available to anybody, but if flying is enabled and you can also do it, there's no reason not to unless you really are that stubborn.

Personally I'm fine with this system Blizzard currently has. At the start of the expansion everybody has to explore each zone and encounter the dangers, fight their way through mobs and so on. But it's understandable that this also gets old after a while and that flying also offers new ways of exploring the zones, especially in this expansion with all these mountains. Blizzard planned it like that from the start which is why there are mountains and other places that may be next to impossible to access without flying. There's no material advantage to getting to these places, but it's nice to have a new way to explore the different areas and a more convenient way to complete world quests that you've probably done many times before by now.

I personally like having flying and I think what Blizzard is doing now (enabling it halfway through the expansion) is a decent compromise whatever side of the argument you're on.

As for world PvP, I think SoulForge is sadly right - world PvP is practically non-existent these days and if it's PvP you want, you must go to the arena or BGs. Most realms are heavily unbalanced faction wise as it is, an issue that began back in WotLK when Blizzard introduced paid faction swaps. I was playing on a realm that was roughly 50:50 Alliance to Horde, but when paid faction swaps came out a lot of Alliance players switched over to Horde because Horde side happened to have the better guilds. This ended up snowballing and by the time Cataclysm rolled around the server was dominated by Horde. This happened to lots of realms and that is what really put a dent in world PvP if you ask me.

World PvP was more exciting back in vanilla/TBC when it wasn't so easy to realm hop or faction swap. People were more invested in their characters because re-rolling meant starting from scratch. Enemy players were probably even known by name. I don't look back on those times with rose tinted glasses though, there was plenty of things that sucked too. In many ways modern WoW is miles better but just specifically regarding world PvP I think it was better in the early expansions.

[Soisoisoi]

i dont doubt it was frustrating, i do believe people that just up and fly to a high hover, do so because: a) a player with better skill or better gear showed up and ruined their "fun" or b) they were out numbered, making their "fun" difficult to do. and "fun" in this case was a player trying to exploit and harass, with no serious intention of toe to toe battles.

there is just any number of reasons people decide to avoid WPvP and just hover safely out of range, not just i have flying so im gonna make this other person wish i would come down and fight.

still, despite how you think flying by itself is a detriment to WPvP... making WPvP more lucrative would do far more for WPvP than removing or gating flying does for the players.

I agree that happens and some people just want to get away, but the vast majority of WPvP with flying goes: Druid flies down and blows all cooldowns and attempts to gank someone -> Gets outplayed/skilled/whatever > Shadowmeld or Incarnation+Prowl > Flight Forms away.

Druid is an easy example, but anyone can do that with a CC>wait>Mount and fly away, knowing you can't get CCd whilst in the air. MoP was especially bad due to the likes of the Salyin Battle Banner.