7.2 Enhancement Feedback Posts

[Deleted]

Also Lightning Shield and Ancestral Swiftness being in the same tier makes no sense

To be honest I'd do away with both of them. They're both boring.

[Deleted]

It is a secret for no one that enhancement DPS sucks this patch and through all NH it will still suck. I'm not denying that we suffered a huge dps nerf but buffing enhancement today is difficult according to the fact that it is deeply RNG based.
I think what bothers me most is that it really felt like blizzard just just didn't give a shit about enhancement that due to months of lack of communication.

None the less, you should really care more about improving rotation based on talents or core gameplay of the spec instead of dps ranking as we've only seen the first iteration of 7.2.5 patch changes, and balancing needs several.

WTF. Everyone has RNG....

[Kazzek]

Ahaha really Skildar ? just shut up please i think u never played enhancement shaman, it's ridiculous ..

[Deleted]

WTF. Everyone has RNG....

I doubt any class has any sort of RNG that can result in a 300-400k dps difference on attempts

[Phaty]

you know thats EXACTLY WHAT SUNDERING IS right?

thats a small cone right in front of you, highly unreliable and knocks everything away, thats got good in a raid setting consideringhow everyone elses AOE is an actual aoe.

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No, tuning up is absolutely not all the spec needs. The 11 page thread started by many prominent Enh Shaman on the official forum is proof enough of that. These larger patches are about talent and mechanical tweaks, so if you are just looking for a big damage buff then you are looking in the wrong place.



Well, the original intent behind this talent redesign was that people would have some control over how active or passive their playstyle would be. So the the passives mostly make sense from that perspective. The problem is that too many of the passive talents ended up being the strongest in a row because Blizz didn't have the balls to tune those talents to be worst than active options.

really? because enhance had one of the biggest redesigns for this expansion, and it was widely considered one of the best. we were also good dps, not the best but far from the worst. then a small amount brought up how hailstorm did so much damage then other classes complained about the damage, then they gutted it along with other talents instead of bringing weak talents to match it. we dont need a talent redesign redesign, they should have just left us alone. we were fine the way we were. i can guarentee you if we still did competative damage, that 11 page thread would be non existent. this is purely a damage output problem due to the 7.1.5 nerfs, not a class design issue. they are doing it with other classes, just look at the arms, not a redesign but pure damage buffs. they are also buffing classes that are already strong. theres been multiple post of other classes being made better, finally enhance gets one and so far its a nerf.

[wordup]

No, tuning up I all we need, not talent removals and relocating talent teir's the way they are doing with enhance. They did good with ele, but so bad with enhance. It's like there's seperate teams for each one.

Yeah I mean, the last few expansions were "tuning up" is all we needed (and subsequently got each patch because of poor talent design and "scaling") worked out great right? Stormstrike and Lava Lash having 8+ separate scaling buffs over the course of WoD is testament to that being the ideal because by the end of WoD we were top tier; right? r-r-right?!

This allergy to change is what is curtailing discussion with devs, it happened before and it's creeping in now.

Let me also add on the most recent post, "widely considered one of the best" is an ironic thing to bring up when you, in the same post, state that the thread wouldn't exist if we were top. Two quick things here; it was considered the best because it dragged a spec from the gutter up to being "competitive" (reasons for which largely tie into exit velocity of the early gear curve but that's another more elaborate and largely pointless discussion), not because of it's wild gameplay overhaul. Had it been trailing in the dirt, like you ironically drag up, it would have been considered bad.

The thread however, existed before we were truly in a bad state, but was not made public until it was clear nothing was going to be done. You can guarantee a lot of things, but unfortunately, unless you actually know the source material and reasons behind it, that's like hearing The Sun is going to guarantee integrity in local news coverage pal.

- Oh, and last but not least, your close minded evaluation of Sundering cuts pretty deep I will add one thing though, the authoratative bullshit you spew about legendary balance (which I can tell categorically with the way it's worded has come from my own and others mouths in discord, and you are spinning) is not grounds to sit and argue semantics with the state of the spec. The info you are using to argue against these points literally came from the maw of the people you are arguing against.

[Pantsless]

”This allergy to change is what is curtailing discussion with devs, it happened before and it's creeping in now.”

And the award for the biggest hypocrite of the shaman community goes to ...

[Deleted]

I doubt any class has any sort of RNG that can result in a 300-400k dps difference on attempts

Yes they do. Not everyone, but enhance isnt that special.

Saying you cant buff enhance because of RNG when the best DHs can pull 200k more is bull shit. Or look at numbers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=100&boss=1863

If enhance is so special about RNG: why are most specs pulling much more in optimal RNG tries?

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@wordup: I would be happy about tuning enhance competitive alone. The reason i rerolled is because the 7.1.5 gameplay was straightout stupid. Letting Flametongue drop for more SS was even a dps gain, there was no gameplay anymore and the numbers were shitty. The new trait + Akainu + HS actually makes a lot more fun to play.

But it isnt even close to the level of power my frost DK has. 1.4m dps on 60 sec m+ bosses reliably, 10m burst at aoe packs, howling blast not requiring positioning. Soloing every boss at Broken Shore (while as enhance i cant solo them all) is additional.

EN was okay becsuse i felt strong in raids at single target and i could beat nearly everxone at boss dmg in m+. That isnt the case right now so i feel pretty crippled. It is enough tp beat worse players, but e.g. our elememtal shaman beats me in m+ at ST and AOE. Thats not fair....

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Enhance feels like a spec without any strength. Even self healing feels weak. Not to mention: i did the elite demon eq yesterday and my dk pulled 15 mobs and aoed them within 10 sec without any problem. Then i did it as enhance and had to run away from 5 demons because i couldnt kill them fast enough.

[Gurg]

There is no playstyle change yet. That BF change is barely a gamestyle change because we didnt use rockbiter a lot.
Edit: Looking at logs i use rockbiter in a HH build around every 6 sec. Considering rockbiter now deals 77% more damage, gains 5 MS more and i often only used it to keep Landslide up. It definitely is a buff overall and no gamestyle change at all.

Well.. its a playstyle change, but you dont feel it at all because the main reason for this change is actually something that you already got.
Imo, the main reason, among others, to why BF became new RB is idea that we have so much passive MS gen via our traits.
Its a duck tape fix which doesnt fix one of the issues, again talked about in first post and trough this topic, low value of MS due to way we generate it.
Instead of addressing traits in issue first and then looking into the rest of the spec they decided to just duck it, a temporary solution which will, again, have to be looked into at some point.

I know all disadvantages behind playing Rockbiter gameplay style, the same style got me to play enhance and i like having "on demand" generator, not an attack, just generator, but, personal feelings a side, taking it away, below certain point, specially during leveling and before you got Doomhammer, makes spec play really slow, waiting for MS to actually use something.

Beside that, i agree completely with Wordup's post, but judging by the bluepost, they simply brushed off most of the stuff said in it.
Still, im hoping that im wrong honestly.

[wordup]

”This allergy to change is what is curtailing discussion with devs, it happened before and it's creeping in now.”

And the award for the biggest hypocrite of the shaman community goes to ...

Funny, I didn't like one of your wishlisting points once and had a discussion and you're still this hung up and pissy about it over a year later. You're like a caricature.

[Deleted]

Yes they do. Not everyone, but enhance isnt that special.

Saying you cant buff enhance because of RNG when the best DHs can pull 200k more is bull shit. Or look at numbers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=100&boss=1863

If enhance is so special about RNG: why are most specs pulling much more in optimal RNG tries?

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@wordup: I would be happy about tuning enhance competitive alone. The reason i rerolled is because the 7.1.5 gameplay was straightout stupid. Letting Flametongue drop for more SS was even a dps gain, there was no gameplay anymore and the numbers were shitty. The new trait + Akainu + HS actually makes a lot more fun to play.

But it isnt even close to the level of power my frost DK has. 1.4m dps on 60 sec m+ bosses reliably, 10m burst at aoe packs, howling blast not requiring positioning. Soloing every boss at Broken Shore (while as enhance i cant solo them all) is additional.

EN was okay becsuse i felt strong in raids at single target and i could beat nearly everxone at boss dmg in m+. That isnt the case right now so i feel pretty crippled. It is enough tp beat worse players, but e.g. our elememtal shaman beats me in m+ at ST and AOE. Thats not fair....

- - - Updated - - -

Enhance feels like a spec without any strength. Even self healing feels weak. Not to mention: i did the elite demon eq yesterday and my dk pulled 15 mobs and aoed them within 10 sec without any problem. Then i did it as enhance and had to run away from 5 demons because i couldnt kill them fast enough.

A) They do more damage overall
B) They can manipulate through trinkets, we can't.

If enhancement wasn't that special in RNG, then why are they changing us in our RNG?

[EasymodeX]

I doubt any class has any sort of RNG that can result in a 300-400k dps difference on attempts

You are correct. Enhancement does not have any sort of RNG that can result in a 300-400k dps difference on attempts.

That sort of result is summarized as "PEBCAK".

If enhancement wasn't that special in RNG, then why are they changing us in our RNG?

Because people are crying about that even though that's only a secondary problem, if one at all.

There's only a few fundamental concerns with the spec as a whole at the moment, and they are:

1. Tempest's design that results in GCD-choking and hyper resource efficiency. While it's nice at the moment, it leads to limitations on scaling.

2. Tier set design. T19 4pc is too good, but it's also too necessary currently.

3. Raw numbers and damage output for a sustained DPS spec competing against burst DPS specs that have higher sustained DPS.

[Gunwolf]

Moving Landslide is a good things. It was just a very bad lvl 100 talent.

LVL 100 talents should be cool stuff, not some flat 8% agi buff.

Now they some room for cool stuff. Hopefully they come up with a cool idea.

I agree... I hated using such a boring L100 talent. It will be good on the first tier, not sure if it will have the 8% agility or +5% dmg or mebbe they add back the crit too.... or some combo, like 8% agility and random secondary stat like elem blast does.

Looking forward to see what they put for the new talent. They can go for a passive talent like before, or an actual ability, or a medium CD. Often talent tiers will have a passive talent, a shorter cd ability, and a longer cd.... like landslide/earthen spike/ascendance, or lightningrod/icefury/ascendance, or hightide/wellspring/ascendance. So quite possible they will go for another passive... but if not, then I hope they go for a bursty aoe/cleave ability that is frost themed. Lastly would be a medium cd, so something like 45sec to 1min... like windsong or liquid magma totem. Not sure what they could do for this.

My suggestion for a burst cleave ability (ex. "Frost Slash") is a high damage, high cost, med cd, so like 20 sec cd and 80 MS cost but if your CL hits 3+ targets twice in a row then the cd/cost would be reduced to say 10sec cd and 40MS cost. This way in aoe situations, after 2 CL's you can use a Frost Slash. Would make it more desirable for aoe then single target too. I would actually love to see this be a baseline ability, so we have an actual frost damaging ability to proc legendary ring easily without talents... but this could work as just a talent too.

Also, improving the existing final tier talents:

- Ascendance: It should have set SB procs, I'm thinking normally every 4 sec so like 0>4>8>12 and w/ tempest 6sec so 0>6>12. Giving it an aoe component like elem's lava beam would be cool too.... maybe transform lava lash to frost slash, does burst cleave damage instead, or our crash lightning will proc a bursty frost nova each time while in ascendance.

- Earthen Spike: This should have its range doubled atleast to 20yds, if not 25 or 30 yds. Would make it more flexible, esp with stuff like OC'd LB's. It may need some more small damage buffs or other minor tweaks.


And few other things I would like to see for talents is that Feral Lunge has some extra cc/utility effect like a daze or debuff on enemy to take more damage from next attack or something as well as increase range to 30yds, and Sundering to be more of a cone then line to make it easier to use on groups. Also, add another effect to Astral Shift.. like useable while cc'd or maybe a % of HP or damage mitigated is an absorb shield after initial 8 sec duration fades just cause we are so squishy.



I will add again that Frost spells could, and should, be more available to our spec. If we are Air ascendants, and of the storm, then surely a mix of nature and frost makes sense. That is why I added frost aoe to ascendance. Many other spells/talents can easily have their theme changed to frost or incorporate some frost:

-Windsong: Can be both frost and nature damage
-Lightning Shield: Can be "Storm shield" or "arctic shield" and proc both nature or frost orbs
-Fury of Air: Can be mix of frost and nature... fits thematically since it slows as well
-Sundering: Rename it "Avalanche" and be frost, or physical + bit of frost, same knockdown effect
-Earthen Spike: Rename Frozen/Arctic/Glacial Spike (screw mages taking the good names), be frost themed instead, or again physical + bit of frost. May need to tweak the buff to increase physical, frost, and nature damage.

Because people are crying about that (RNG) even though that's only a secondary problem, if one at all.

There's only a few fundamental concerns with the spec as a whole at the moment, and they are:

1. Tempest's design that results in GCD-choking and hyper resource efficiency. While it's nice at the moment, it leads to limitations on scaling.

2. Tier set design. T19 4pc is too good, but it's also too necessary currently.

3. Raw numbers and damage output for a sustained DPS spec competing against burst DPS specs that have higher sustained DPS.

I gotta agree... I think the complaints about RNG is overblown. I don't find myself with too many deadspots... esp with stuff like wind strike relics or the T19 4set bonus (and then CL when in aoe) its not too hard to get SB procs. And with Tempest, you may find yourself wasting or overwriting charges of SS. We already see SS doing a large majority of our overall damage, I don't see how more procs will change much of anything... esp when u still have other abilities to push. People may argue for more consistent procs, but again they seem consistent enough to me already, and every class has some RNG... like DK's killing machine off melee swing crit, and they can increase procs via crit rating just like we can increase SB with mastery rating. And now HH/HS/akainu is becoming popular too and takes more advantage of LL. The loss of the T19 4 set will suck tho, I hope they bake it in at some point.


1. Yea, I can kinda see the issues for Tempest. But with the other 2 talents not being great alternatives, even if buffed, I don't know how pressing of an issue it is. The fact that it does good damage and integral to the spec makes it just a great talent, and it works for now so not a big deal. Like what would be the alternative?


2. I agree, 4pc is good... brings synergy between SS and LL, would be great if baked in. The T20 set bonuses seem like crap to me as well, focusing on crit which is one of our worst secondaries... I know there is some synergy with T19 2 set but that prob won't last for long if ilvl gap is big enough, or we will have to keep doing NH hoping for good titanforge procs. Not sure how the 4set plans to work, the set bonuses seem to contradict each other, if we want to use CL every 16 sec for crit buff then I doubt we will get anywhere close to 10 stacks of the buff. Then there are the specifics.... will MH and OH SS crits be seperate, so if both crit on SS we get 2 stacks of buff? Will our next CL consume all stacks of buff, or just one stack each time, or maybe each proc of CL consumes a stack so not just the initial CL but SS or LL in between each use 1 stack for 30% more damage... maybe it doesn't consume it at all and its a build up mechanic with buff at set duration.

I like the idea of either SS or CL building up a buff that can be unleashed. Like SS builds a buff, at 5 stacks your LL does tons of damage, or maybe does bonus cleave damage. Or if CL hits 3+ targets it gains a buff, increasing damage of next CL, then at 3 stacks your CL consumes it to do a big frost nova... or your LL consumes it to do a big frost cleave attack. I'm a bit obsessed with trying to bring more synergy between abilities as well as add a frost aoe ability in there somehow to address our low burst cleave.


3. Overall, we still need more of a damage boost. They added 4% damage to certain abilities, we prob still need atleast a flat +5% dmg buff. Our elem imbues could do more damage as well. Someone said the imbue relic should increase both instant and the proc parts of imbues, which is a good idea. Either baseline buff or from relics. They could prob buff Doom Vortex golden trait too, increase the range to 5-6yds and buff damage.

Dunno what they can do for scaling other then +agility or wep damage scaling. Players were sacrificing ilvl (and so wep damage) for wind strike relics, but with better ones in ToS that won't be as big an issue. Perhaps some baseline passive to give crit some value... like we used to have crit>flurry (inc atk speed) which is basically what our wind strike relic does now (via SB/mastery)... not sure what they can do instead of bonus atk speed but whatever the crit effect proc is, it doesn't need to be major.... anything would help it be more useful (aside from the t20 set bonus).

It does suck that we are supposed to be "high single target, lower cleave/aoe" but are not even doing that very well right now. The burst cleave can be important for certain fights or M+ stuff, tho even sustained is ok in higher levels as long as the damage is actually good and evens out. We could use some better rampup for CL, or an actual burst cleave ability (Frost Slash!!!) to help with this problem. I agree with the sentiments of some players who think our aoe rotation could use work and play differently compared to single target... cause right now its basically the same.

[Deleted]

A) They do more damage overall
B) They can manipulate through trinkets, we can't.

If enhancement wasn't that special in RNG, then why are they changing us in our RNG?

Did they? Up to now i would say RNG will be worse with Ascendance.
@Gunwolf: Too many changes... you cant expect a rework for half of our talents.

And RNG is an issue for every spec. Trinket procs alone can be 200k difference. E.g. Krosus mythic, there are enhancer with over 1m dps and Rusah had Nightbloom Frond do nrarly 9% dps while in most tries it is beneath 2%.

So e.g. frost DK: Killing machine procs increase damage and lead to higher rrssource generation. There is an artifact trait giving Obliterate a 10% chance to generate 60% more RP. Spending RP has s chance to generate runes.

The result is: sometimes you are drowning in ressources and sometimes you dont press any button for 7 seconds.... additionally there is a legendary giving obliterate a 15% chance to refund its rune costs.

Add trinket procs, crit luck, fight mechanics to this...

People believing enhance is so special about RNG dont know much about other specs. Enhance isnt the special snowflake.

The special thing is that with top RNG a DH can pull 1.3m dps when an enhancer wont get over 1.1m.

[EasymodeX]

1. Yea, I can kinda see the issues for Tempest. But with the other 2 talents not being great alternatives, even if buffed, I don't know how pressing of an issue it is. The fact that it does good damage and integral to the spec makes it just a great talent, and it works for now so not a big deal. Like what would be the alternative?

Shrug, anything? Preferably something that interacts with the non-Stormstrike part of the Enhance kit or only interacts with SS incidentally. E.g. works off of FT, RB, CL, LL, or adds a new capability (preferably that does not interfere with the existing abilities). The new Lashing Flames trait is a good example of this: it inherently functions on FT+LL, and FT procs occur on all abilities even though it occurs slightly more on SS. So there's incidental synergy with SS, but the main function scales across the full suite of Enhance abilities.

Another option is to significantly alter a small piece of our kit like Feral Spirits. The talent could make FS ... shrug, proc Stormbringer with every hit? Tempest creates random pervasive GCD choking which makes it harder to balance and scale for the devs. However, if that GCD choke procspam is predictable and controlled, then it's not a problem to balance and scale, and players would probably feel better about having a real damage cooldown. Personally I'm not a fan of this because I don't mind Enhance's niche as a sustained DPS spec in concept. If only Enhance actually had high sustained DPS.

focusing on crit which is one of our worst secondaries...

Yes although keep in mind that at higher gear levels crit still manages to float its way to be vaguely decent. My current stat weights are something like 18 for crit, 20-21 for mastery/haste, and 18 for vers. So crit is "the weakest" but not by a huge amount. A flat 5% crit buff will result in continued focus on mastery and haste. Also keep in mind that in the context of T20, there's a lower chance of retaining that 40% crit buff for SB from T19.

the set bonuses seem to contradict each other, if we want to use CL every 16 sec for crit buff then I doubt we will get anywhere close to 10 stacks of the buff.

This is not relevant. Unless there's something abnormal going on, it doesn't matter if you spend the stacks early. It only matters if you overcap stacks late. The main gameplay here just from what's written on the effects is as follows:

1. If you cap stacks, hit CL.

2. If the buff is about to expire, hit CL.

The end. Pretty braindead but so it goes. All other normal CL rules stay the same.

Note: if you still have 2pc T19 with the 4pc T20, then it's entirely plausible to cap stacks early. Also, there's a question of where a MH + OH crit on Stormstrike will count twice for the stacks as you observed. I think the chance of that is better than 50/50, so it seems somewhat likely that stack capping would be a thing.

Someone said the imbue relic should increase both instant and the proc parts of imbues, which is a good idea.

This. One of the odd parts about the Doomhammer traits is that damn near nothing provides any sort of remotely meaningful DPS upgrade except Wind Strikes. If they simply made the other traits relevant, then Enhance's sustained damage would go up naturally.

Personally I would aim for a 10-15% total damage boost to enhance and call it done. I don't care if Enhance is the "top" sustained DPS or not, but it should be in the top tier. The lack of controllable major burst damage is a tactical deficiency in the class design. This sort of "weakness" should be compensated by Enhance actually being good at what it's supposed to do well which is, based on the current design, apparently sustained DPS.

[Lowland]

Because people are crying about that even though that's only a secondary problem, if one at all.

There's only a few fundamental concerns with the spec as a whole at the moment, and they are:

1. Tempest's design that results in GCD-choking and hyper resource efficiency. While it's nice at the moment, it leads to limitations on scaling.

2. Tier set design. T19 4pc is too good, but it's also too necessary currently.

3. Raw numbers and damage output for a sustained DPS spec competing against burst DPS specs that have higher sustained DPS.

I generally agree with you and think you've highlighted the main issues facing the spec right now. But RNG could still easily be an issue for us. The *only* reason RNG isn't a major issue for us right now is the T19 four piece, which gives us the ability to dump resources into Stormbringer procs and essentially protects us from a complete proc drought. There's still a great deal of RNG-related variance in Enh damage (i.e., the difference between a moderate number of procs and constant procs in a fight), it just doesn't feel like a problem per se at the moment.

We're losing the T19 4-piece soon though, and 7.2.5 should be balancing us around that fact (or they could make the 4-piece bonus baseline, which I think literally every Enh player would like to see). It does seem like they are trying to reduce our dependence on Stormstrike/Stormbringer in general during the next tier - between the anticipated nerf to Tempest and new tier bonuses focused on adding Crash Lightning back into our single target rotation. If it means greater design flexibility for the spec and avoids scaling issues down the road, I'm all for that approach. However, this approach requires the devs to shift our power out of Stormstrike/Stormbringer (with all that's tied to that: wind strikes, unleash doom, windfury, etc.) into other abilities without nerfing our overall power level.

This was exactly the case in 7.1 when they nerfed Hailstorm. Except they didn't fully shift our power out of Hailstorm into other abilities and we ended up with a net nerf after 7.1 and have been gliding steadily towards the bottom of the DPS rankings in Nighthold since.

I hope they approach Enh rebalancing with an appreciation for how mediocre the spec has become and how much they need to compensate us for if they nerf Tempest and our dependence on Stormstrike/Stormbringer RNG.

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Well, the original intent behind this talent redesign was that people would have some control over how active or passive their playstyle would be. So the the passives mostly make sense from that perspective. The problem is that too many of the passive talents ended up being the strongest in a row because Blizz didn't have the balls to tune those talents to be worst than active options.

This right here. The active talents should generally perform at least slightly better than the passives in their respective row. It gives players choice on playstyle and rewards the active, higher skill-capped playstyles. This is what I've been wanting to see since the start of Legion.

[Rusah]

Did they? Up to now i would say RNG will be worse with Ascendance.
@Gunwolf: Too many changes... you cant expect a rework for half of our talents.

And RNG is an issue for every spec. Trinket procs alone can be 200k difference. E.g. Krosus mythic, there are enhancer with over 1m dps and Rusah had Nightbloom Frond do nrarly 9% dps while in most tries it is beneath 2%.

So e.g. frost DK: Killing machine procs increase damage and lead to higher rrssource generation. There is an artifact trait giving Obliterate a 10% chance to generate 60% more RP. Spending RP has s chance to generate runes.

The result is: sometimes you are drowning in ressources and sometimes you dont press any button for 7 seconds.... additionally there is a legendary giving obliterate a 15% chance to refund its rune costs.

Add trinket procs, crit luck, fight mechanics to this...

People believing enhance is so special about RNG dont know much about other specs. Enhance isnt the special snowflake.

The special thing is that with top RNG a DH can pull 1.3m dps when an enhancer wont get over 1.1m.

Our variance has dropped a fair amount this patch (most people around 15-18%), largely thanks to the viability of Akainu's with Hot Hand and Lashing Flames and a lack of Wind Strikes relics (Wind Strikes is very good, but significantly raises our variance).

However, when the majority of these issues were identified and were problems we were floating around 21-23% variance from pull to pull, significantly higher than every other class in the game except on-par with Arms Warriors and below Outlaw Rogues (both specs noone plays for different reasons). Doing Star Augur progression with 22% simmed variance was AWFUL and nearly got me benched due to P3 DPS requirements.

However, there will likely come a time where the things we currently rely on to reduce our variance disappear (legendary balance, trinket changes, more wind strike availability) and a lot of these problems will show up again. These are the kind of situations we are hoping to avoid going forward and that we hope some of these upcoming class changes will help resolve.

[Pantsless]

Its not about that post. Its about every post youve made since launch where you say that Enhancement is fine, there is nothing wrong with talents or mechanics and that all we need is numbers tuning. And even more aggravating are the elitist douchebag answers you give to people that contradict you on this mater.
So yes... you are either a huge hypocrite or a paucisynaptic theorycrafter wannabe. Whether you like it or, thats a different matter.
Cheers !

[wordup]

Its not about that post. Its about every post youve made since launch where you say that Enhancement is fine, there is nothing wrong with talents or mechanics and that all we need is numbers tuning. And even more aggravating are the elitist douchebag answers you give to people that contradict you on this mater.
So yes... you are either a huge hypocrite or a paucisynaptic theorycrafter wannabe. Whether you like it or, thats a different matter.
Cheers !

I'll just take the compliment that I am that important in your life that you crawl out of the woodwork to respond to any post I make and are significantly more insulting than I ever have been to you, whilst taking the moral high ground

[Gunwolf]

Did they? Up to now i would say RNG will be worse with Ascendance.
@Gunwolf: Too many changes... you cant expect a rework for half of our talents.

And RNG is an issue for every spec. Trinket procs alone can be 200k difference. E.g. Krosus mythic, there are enhancer with over 1m dps and Rusah had Nightbloom Frond do nrarly 9% dps while in most tries it is beneath 2%.

Yea, my post did end up a bit of a wishlist.... but new frost cleave abilities aside, my main suggestions are pretty simple. Really I wanna see our L100 talent tier be improved so all 3 talents are viable. Ascendance should have set SB procs plus a bonus aoe component to make it more reliable and flexible in single target or aoe situations. Earthen Spike can be good, esp for the niche situations, but could use longer range and some minor buffs to damage. And other then that, for Enh in general, a simple overall +5-10% damage buff will be enough for now to keep us competitive.

And as for the RNG, I agree... most classes deal with RNG, but our damage isn't there.

Shrug, anything? Preferably something that interacts with the non-Stormstrike part of the Enhance kit or only interacts with SS incidentally. E.g. works off of FT, RB, CL, LL, or adds a new capability (preferably that does not interfere with the existing abilities). The new Lashing Flames trait is a good example of this: it inherently functions on FT+LL, and FT procs occur on all abilities even though it occurs slightly more on SS. So there's incidental synergy with SS, but the main function scales across the full suite of Enhance abilities.

Another option is to significantly alter a small piece of our kit like Feral Spirits. The talent could make FS ... shrug, proc Stormbringer with every hit? Tempest creates random pervasive GCD choking which makes it harder to balance and scale for the devs. However, if that GCD choke procspam is predictable and controlled, then it's not a problem to balance and scale, and players would probably feel better about having a real damage cooldown. Personally I'm not a fan of this because I don't mind Enhance's niche as a sustained DPS spec in concept. If only Enhance actually had high sustained DPS.

I dunno... there isn't any real easy solution to replace it. I think its fine for now, it may end up with SS spam, but u are spamming ur best ability and by the time u get all 3 charges off, maybe refresh imbues or hit LL, SB will proc again. I think its also the only talent that directly interacts with SS, another reason why its a "must have", but thats not so bad. I look at Tempest similar to Elem's Echo of Elements, with the extra charges giving u more to work with.

Adding more to Feral spirits might be too much, we already get tons of MS so even if u don't get SB procs u can just end up spamming LL which works out. Its a weird CD, not the most direct for a dps CD... and stuff like using CL with wolves out for Doom wolves can be easy for people to miss and reduce its effectiveness. And yea, if we actually still did great single target dps that would be good but we don't.

This is not relevant. Unless there's something abnormal going on, it doesn't matter if you spend the stacks early. It only matters if you overcap stacks late. The main gameplay here just from what's written on the effects is as follows:

1. If you cap stacks, hit CL.

2. If the buff is about to expire, hit CL.

The end. Pretty braindead but so it goes. All other normal CL rules stay the same.

Note: if you still have 2pc T19 with the 4pc T20, then it's entirely plausible to cap stacks early. Also, there's a question of where a MH + OH crit on Stormstrike will count twice for the stacks as you observed. I think the chance of that is better than 50/50, so it seems somewhat likely that stack capping would be a thing.

Yea, I suppose that as long as u use up the stacks and not waste w/ overcapping, it will be effective. But assuming we will use CL every 16-20 sec for the crit buff, we will never get to 10 stacks (unless very rarely). If it double dips on SS or w/ early bonus of T19 then its possible, but the T19 won't be used for long. It just seems weird to me... being able to fully buff CL seems like something we would want to do, would be great for aoe, like storing stacks till adds come out so we can be more bursty, but we can't do that if we gotta use CL more often even on single target.

On one side, I don't mind it cause it helps proc SB and make more use out of the crash storms talent, but on the other side I would like a bigger playstyle difference with single target and aoe.... with the T19 4set it worked well to focus on LL in single target to help proc SB, while in aoe we could use both CL and LL for even more SB procs to help with CL procs on aoe.

This. One of the odd parts about the Doomhammer traits is that damn near nothing provides any sort of remotely meaningful DPS upgrade except Wind Strikes. If they simply made the other traits relevant, then Enhance's sustained damage would go up naturally.

Personally I would aim for a 10-15% total damage boost to enhance and call it done. I don't care if Enhance is the "top" sustained DPS or not, but it should be in the top tier. The lack of controllable major burst damage is a tactical deficiency in the class design. This sort of "weakness" should be compensated by Enhance actually being good at what it's supposed to do well which is, based on the current design, apparently sustained DPS.

Yea, would help if the other relics/traits were more useful. Right now I think its Wind strikes>>Lava lash>all other relics. I guess its not too different for other classes but our other traits could be improved. Atleast now they said we will get only dps relic drops, no more utility. Also, Doom vortex was buffed once, but could use more I think as well as double range cause 3yds aint shit. The damage of our imbues being buffed in general would be good too. Like u said, if stuff like imbues (instant and dot parts) and wf traits/dmg were better, our sustained will go up.


Yea, I said the same earlier... but a simple +5-10%dmg would work for now. The small buff they just gave us isn't enough. Playstyle works for the most part to me, just damage isn't there. Our lack of burst aoe prob is an intended design, tho I still wish we had something for burst cleave even if not as great as DH/WW/DK, but if they want us to be better on sustained or single target then buff that atleast. I keep hearing about scaling issues too... not sure if that is something to do with agil or wep damage needing tweaks or what.