Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[Tiberria]

Using Thisalee as a CA is also a disservice like Remulos unless you really need the assistance. She's also a Bodyguard, keep that in mind.

Also oh my god, you use Broll. Your Druid better be an alt.

Only if you don't value the +10% flight form/travel form speed and +10% haste in combat to help you get through world quests faster more than you value the OCD of having absolutely min maxed mission followers. Sure, you can argue that you don't need the DPS buff and the movement speed buff and can just do WQ a little slower, but you can counter that argument with - how often does having the absolutely best possible set up in terms of followers for missions really matter when it comes to a mission that matters to you? I think the bottom line is that Thisalee is both the best bodyguard/combat ally follower, and in the top 5 setup for mission followers. You either have to pick running a weaker bodyguard (Mylune and Naralex are really quite useless as bodyguards most of the time, Broll is irritating and 100% useless, and it isn't like you want to use Remulos/Meatball/Moroes as bodyguards either). If you do every AP world quest, and also clear the entire WQ map when the world quest event is up or the AP token Mage Tower buff is up, having better combat ally buffs is probably more important to you, but it's whatever you value. I'd never use say Meatball as a combat ally no matter how much DPS he does, but Thisalee isn't really on that level.

If you have Moroes, is there any value in putting Brightwing in your roster, given the synergy between his unique ability and the Moroes extra troops. If Rebirth works on the Moroes dinner guests, wouldn't putting Brightwing on missions with them effectively give you +50% value to those troops through getting 50% more uses?

[fallenangel-succ]

Why of course brings the question of why run WQ in a spec that's not bear...(which gains 10% vers).

[Tiberria]

Why would I run WQ as Bear as a Resto main spec, when I have 10 Resto legendaries, 2 Boomkin legendaries and 0 Bear legendaries (excluding the cross spec ones I have as Resto) and when my weapon ilvls are (Resto 927, Boomkin 918, Bear 890, Feral 865). It's not going to be any faster running them as Bear over Balance. Plus, even if you're running them as Guardian, +10 Vers is essentially +10% damage done, which still speeds things up decently.

[Marrilaife]

Why of course brings the question of why run WQ in a spec that's not bear...(which gains 10% vers).

I literally started doing WQ in boomkin instead of bear because I got the hidden boomkin appearance and need to chip 200 WQ with hidden appearance. Have also resto one but fuck questing in healer spec. Don't have bear one atm and that's the only reason...

(Ofc I mean the original hidden ones you get from DHT / Ursoc not the new mage tower ones.)

[Polarthief]

Only if you don't value the +10% flight form/travel form speed and +10% haste in combat to help you get through world quests faster more than you value the OCD of having absolutely min maxed mission followers.

If Druid is your main and you're looking at optimization guides, chances are your iLvl is at LEAST 890 or higher, more than enough to not need a BG giving you 10% more Haste.

Like I also said earlier, 10% more speed just means you're getting your stuff done faster and making the game be as short as possible. That sort of defeats the purpose of playing a video game, y'know? Flight makes it convenient if you need to traverse vertical movement, not to "get shit done faster", but more speed on top of that, eh. I'd rather have more optimized missions but that's just me.

If you have Moroes, is there any value in putting Brightwing in your roster, given the synergy between his unique ability and the Moroes extra troops. If Rebirth works on the Moroes dinner guests, wouldn't putting Brightwing on missions with them effectively give you +50% value to those troops through getting 50% more uses?

Not at all, especially when these troops are just equal to Keepers with a random bonus 15% and no bonus from equipment.

Why of course brings the question of why run WQ in a spec that's not bear...(which gains 10% vers).

I originally started Legion doing WQs as Bear because of PvP and how heavy mobs were hitting me. Now that I'm 910 and in Balance I just melt all non-elites with JUST DoTs, there's no need to go bear form. (Plus I server changed to Sargeras where I almost never get ganked)

[roi]

Like I also said earlier, 10% more speed just means you're getting your stuff done faster and making the game be as short as possible. That sort of defeats the purpose of playing a video game, y'know?

Why use a CA at all then? Also better unequip your gear, it makes you getting your stuff done faster. What kind of argument is that, lol...

Thisalee is definitely the best combat ally, with the class hall haste buff you get 15% free haste. Oh nevermind, I forgot you can't use that either, it's too good too fast!

[Polarthief]

Why use a CA at all then?

The free gold/resources/ap it provides...? Otherwise, I agree, I wouldn't use a CA, much like I haven't until just recently when I got the 7th champion slot.

Also better unequip your gear, it makes you getting your stuff done faster. What kind of argument is that, lol...

Okay well now you're just being silly.

Thisalee is definitely the best combat ally, with the class hall haste buff you get 15% free haste. Oh nevermind, I forgot you can't use that either, it's too good too fast!

Because I don't NEED the extra help; I kill shit mighty quick. Again, just using Mylune as a CA PURELY FOR THE GOLD/RESOURCES/AP from her equipment. Otherwise, again, no other reason. I didn't even use a CA for the longest time because we only had 5 precious slots and tons of missions we had to either wait or even lose out on. Now that we have 7, it's a bit easier.

[Tiberria]

Like I also said earlier, 10% more speed just means you're getting your stuff done faster and making the game be as short as possible. That sort of defeats the purpose of playing a video game, y'know? Flight makes it convenient if you need to traverse vertical movement, not to "get shit done faster", but more speed on top of that, eh. I'd rather have more optimized missions but that's just me.

That is a totally nonsensical argument. Of course, you don't NEED the extra DPS from the bodyguard buff to be able to do world quests. You could do world quests just fine at like 830 ilvl. There's still plenty of value in doing them faster.

What value? Well, the faster you can do world quests.
(1) the more WQ you have time to do.
(2) getting them done faster gives you more time to do other things in game, whether it's farm more AP through M+, or work on pet battles, or whatever else.
(3) lets you log out of the game faster to let you do other things you want to do in your life

You can use the same argument for it not being worth getting more traits on your weapon, or enchanting your gear, or pursuing gear upgrades or whatever, but none of it really makes sense. I don't understand how you can want to min max follower setups to the mathematically best setup but then say getting WQ done faster "defeats the point of playing the game" Don't both scenarios aim at the same goal - most efficient gameplay possible?

- - - Updated - - -

Because I don't NEED the extra help; I kill shit mighty quick. Again, just using Mylune as a CA PURELY FOR THE GOLD/RESOURCES/AP from her equipment. Otherwise, again, no other reason. I didn't even use a CA for the longest time because we only had 5 precious slots and tons of missions we had to either wait or even lose out on. Now that we have 7, it's a bit easier.

Again, not about NEEDing the extra help. If 10% haste or 10% vers is 10% more total damage (it's generally relatively close), and it takes 10 seconds to kill a quest mob, and you have to kill 10 mobs per quest, that buff is saving you 10 seconds off the duration of every world quest. If every WQ takes you 120 seconds in total to do (including travel time between them), and you can knock 10 seconds off that by using the bodyguard, you go from being able to do 30 WQ/hour to 32.7 WQ/hour, or you get ~6 minutes back per hour to do something else with your time in and out of the game.

Unless you either barely ever touch WQ or absolutely need that BiS counter setup to be able to do the meaningful missions you have, I don't see why you wouldn't take it.

[De Lupe]

I just want a way to buy equipment for them without relying on good luck with the missions.

Shamans, Monks, and Druids can't buy gear with resources. Why?!

[Lyvar]

First of all congrats on Moroes, I guess you deserved him

I want to bring up the point Naralex vs Mylune again. Both are Balance and counter an ability that is already countered once by a champion and once by a Warden. If you keep both optimized for WQs you won't support Mylunes T1 affinity. If you ever use them for missions that basically means you are lacking a balance champion or a dasher/starfaller and you will most likely not have a Treant in that team. In that case Naralex will give you an additional 15% on spells - that's not huge but I don't think it's fair towards Naralex to say it doesn't matter at all which one to take. Naralex is stronger, even if not much. As a combat ally I just need someone to hold items. I don't want no fairy dragons or anything else. If there is a cooldown which is not great, anyway, I don't have to use it. I do care for the gold/ap/ressources in the first place.

The free legendary I got was the feather (success/hazard). I used it on Thisalee not replacing anything as she just turned purple but I guess that's an obvious choice as she will be my to-go option against hazards. Hamuul would have been the alternative.

Concerning order ressources I have to admit I do care for them. I have quite some time to think about the game but not that much time actually playing it. I am raiding 6h a weak and try to fit a high mythic+ in right now for my weekly chest. I'll try to do all the emissaries (not always possible) and I am clearing the shore every 2 or 3 days. On the expense side I buy 1-2 seals for ressources and do quite a lot of missions. I have to swap a lot in my order hall as I lagged a bit on that pre 7.2 (having the resto hidden skin garden and reinforced T1 units etc). That's why countering disorientation is no must-have but I'll do it if I am able to.

[Thelxi]

So this is my plan:

1. Thisalee (Bodyguard, 10% haste is something I want no matter what)
2. Sylendra (Duh)
3. Meatball (Duh)
4. Naralex (I need 2 starfalls/minion counters)
5. Hamuul (I need 2 starfalls/minion counters)
6. Broll or Zenetabra (I need 1 dash & 1 bash for spell & hazard counters)
7. Remulos or Mylune (I need 1 dash & 1 bash for spell & hazard counters)

It is the last two spots that I am not confident about. My options are either Broll and Remulos or Zentabra and Mylune. I don't like Mylune and I don't like Broll because of their secondary skills, but I have to use one or the other. I basically still need 1 dash and 1 bash to balance out the counters (I want 2 bash, 2 starfall and 1 dash with Thisalee having an emergency 2nd dash if needed).

[Tiberria]

Not at all, especially when these troops are just equal to Keepers with a random bonus 15% and no bonus from equipment.

But by basically dismissing Moroes' unique troop generation ability as "relatively useless", doesn't that reduce his overall value fairly significantly? Is it really that far different from considering Broll to be "meme-tier" because he has a useless ability? Does it really make sense to run with both Meatball (and Meatball is obviously the better of the 2) and Moroes, leaving you with 2 champions with no full counter abilities vs just having better counter coverage?

Here is what I think I want as an ultimate setup.

1. Thisalee - Combat Ally (ideally with AP/gold, AP/resources, gold equipment)
2. Meatball
3. Sylendra - Resto / Spell counter
4. Brightwing - Resto / Minion counter
5. Hamuul Runetotem - Feral / Minion counter
6. Keeper Remulos - Balance / Spell counter
7. Mylune - Balance / Hazard counter

8. Feral Ancient of War

9. Dreamgrove Warden - Hazard counter
10. Dreamgrove Warden - either Minion or Spell counter

That gives me 2 of each counter, 2 of each boss type counter, while still letting me keep Thisalee as preferred combat ally.

[Polarthief]

But by basically dismissing Moroes' unique troop generation ability as "relatively useless", doesn't that reduce his overall value fairly significantly? Is it really that far different from considering Broll to be "meme-tier" because he has a useless ability? Does it really make sense to run with both Meatball (and Meatball is obviously the better of the 2) and Moroes, leaving you with 2 champions with no full counter abilities vs just having better counter coverage?

I never said the troops were worthless, just that they're expendable and not worth using Shitwing.

Here is what I think I want as an ultimate setup.

1. Thisalee - Combat Ally (ideally with AP/gold, AP/resources, gold equipment)
2. Meatball
3. Sylendra - Resto / Spell counter
4. Brightwing - Resto / Minion counter
5. Hamuul Runetotem - Feral / Minion counter
6. Keeper Remulos - Balance / Spell counter
7. Mylune - Balance / Hazard counter

8. Feral Ancient of War

9. Dreamgrove Warden - Hazard counter
10. Dreamgrove Warden - either Minion or Spell counter

That gives me 2 of each counter, 2 of each boss type counter, while still letting me keep Thisalee as preferred combat ally.

While also relying on your AoW for the most common Spec type, using Brightwing and Mylune who have relatively worthless bonuses, and overall, your success chance will be significantly lower. You're basically trading Thisalee for Mylune and Brightwing for Moroes (though yeah if you're going with a "I don't care to farm up to 100+ Kara runs for Moroes", then that 7th slot is pretty versatile).

If you really want to use Thisalee as a CA, I honestly say you should be taking her off CA overnight.

[Mooncode]

- - - Updated - - -

Finally have the Dream Team. Been a long time coming with 100+ Lower Kara runs but finally, it's done <3 (added bonus: 2 +10 missions just popped up as soon as I got him, bringing Moroes to 895 woo!)

Gratz on Moroes mate
Im currently researching my Wardens, then I just need to train the correct ones... Have my Resto AoW, so can soon start going back to 7 followers and cheap Seal again.

[Polarthief]

Gratz on Moroes mate
Im currently researching my Wardens, then I just need to train the correct ones... Have my Resto AoW, so can soon start going back to 7 followers and cheap Seal again.

Thank you, and best of luck on getting the right ones! It only took me 3 DGW to get the 2 I wanted (SF/Dash). I think my first was Skull Bash so I had to ditch those ASAP.

THANKFULLY, they only take 30m like T1/T2 troops. AoW is the worst at 12h and if you don't have a lethal mission, they can take quite awhile (even a day or two) to get rid of them.

[Kluian05]

I'm not bothering with the new Wardens troop. I can already sustain completing all the mission tables I want (Gold -> AP -> Chests -> Rep). With 20% travel form buff and reduced mission time on some of my troops, I'm already creating a bench waiting for missions to spawn. So the Warden troops seem unnecessary. Plus I'm only home during the evenings, and you can't use the heal tokens unless your in game. Blizzard really needs using tokens (especially the 20% success chance ones) into the mobile interface.

My team:

AoW - Resto Spec (healed with vitality tokens)
Meatball - (reduce mission time gear)
Thisalee - Feral/Dash (Bodyguard + Legendary Gold/Resource bonus).
Hamuul - Feral/Starfall
Remulos - Balance/Interrupt
Mylune - Balance/Dash
Sylendra - Resto/Interrupt

7* Brightwing - Resto/Starfall
Naralex - Balance/Starfall

*I primarily use Brightwing, but I swamp him for Naralex if current missions lean Balance over Resto.

Also I spec my Mylune to buff Tier 1 troops extensively, the rest right now all buff Tier 2. This helps balance out the missions so I can use Treants to 200% missions with Mylune.

[Thelxi]

But by basically dismissing Moroes' unique troop generation ability as "relatively useless", doesn't that reduce his overall value fairly significantly? Is it really that far different from considering Broll to be "meme-tier" because he has a useless ability? Does it really make sense to run with both Meatball (and Meatball is obviously the better of the 2) and Moroes, leaving you with 2 champions with no full counter abilities vs just having better counter coverage?

Here is what I think I want as an ultimate setup.

1. Thisalee - Combat Ally (ideally with AP/gold, AP/resources, gold equipment)
2. Meatball
3. Sylendra - Resto / Spell counter
4. Brightwing - Resto / Minion counter
5. Hamuul Runetotem - Feral / Minion counter
6. Keeper Remulos - Balance / Spell counter
7. Mylune - Balance / Hazard counter

8. Feral Ancient of War

9. Dreamgrove Warden - Hazard counter
10. Dreamgrove Warden - either Minion or Spell counter

That gives me 2 of each counter, 2 of each boss type counter, while still letting me keep Thisalee as preferred combat ally.

I really like this setup of champions because you avoid all the useless ones and include all the useful ones but it does all hinge on using a feral ancient. Feral missions are the most common mission type so I'm not sure how this would work out.

[Kluian05]

I really like this setup of champions because you avoid all the useless ones and include all the useful ones but it does all hinge on using a feral ancient. Feral missions are the most common mission type so I'm not sure how this would work out.

With 7.2 that is no longer the case. Of all the new 850+ missions, the class boss counter needed is random. Which is why most people suggest having a 2/2/2 split at a minimum.

[Tiberria]

With 7.2 that is no longer the case. Of all the new 850+ missions, the class boss counter needed is random. Which is why most people suggest having a 2/2/2 split at a minimum.

And, it's impossible to get a 2/2/2 split if you want to use a combat ally and use Meatball and Moroes. I think that makes it questionable whether the Moroes grind is worth it. If you want a 2nd Feral outright champion, you could also just go with Broll instead of Brightwing and use a Resto AOW. I think Brightwing's unique ability is still better than some people give it credit for. It increases the uptime of your Keepers of the Grove, by reducing the amount of time you have to wait for more to be built. Sure, it's not as good as +% chance increase, and you don't want to depend on it to save your Wardens, but it still isn't useless and has positive value, especially given that it is only one of two Resto champions.

[Marrilaife]

With 7.2 that is no longer the case. Of all the new 850+ missions, the class boss counter needed is random. Which is why most people suggest having a 2/2/2 split at a minimum.

You mean the same mission can randomly roll to need resto / feral / balance? For example today I got like 4 missions for balance which was a bit weird. Are they completely RNG then?