Trump's tax plan

[Glorious Leader]

Nope its not. The UK had a debt to GDP ratio after the second world war of 250% and it didn't just manage, it boomed for the next 30 years. Just because you think the debt to GDP is high doesn't mean it is. Gov debt doesn't function like household debt and so the rules and consequences governing it are not the same. What person do you know that is immortal and creates his own money to use?

The US also had a fairly high debt to gdp ratio after the war as well and that us often regarded as the golden age of capitalism.

The fact is the country has been able to maintain debt its entire existence and "paying" back the debt is fucking dumb. You never do. You simple shrnk it relative to the size of the economy. It would.be impossible to pay back in real terms (you cant send goods and services back in time) and in nominal terms the debt is measured IN USD. The currency of which the US government is the sole monopoly issuer of. It must first ISSUE that currency before it can tax it, that means spending it and thats means debt first.

These facts never get mentioned in all the debt hysteria. Nobody mentions total us assets vs debt, nobody mentions output gap from the great recession (thats a real fucking outrage). All of these things are far better and more productive conversationns than look at how much money we "owe".

[SethRoguen]

Its actually been tried since about the 1850's if I remember correctly. But it got so discredited that the 1% had to reinvent it and create a new basis for it that wasn't tarred with the same derision, though it seems that they are reaching a point where they will need to do that again.

FYI it used to be called horse and sparrow theory - feed the horse (1%) enough oats and at the end the horse shit will contain enough unconsumed oats left in it to feed the sparrows.

so calling it "Horse Shit Economics" would be clever and quite accurate.

[shimerra]

I am talking about the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy. It is this that matters not some nominal dollar amount. The debt can increase 10,000 fold, but as long as the economy sees a commensurate increase in size then it matters not.

Hey look someone who actually understands debt and isn't spooked by the stupid nominal numbers which mean shit.

This guy has said it perfectly. Read a book called Lords of Finance. Both an economic and historical perspective undermine the notion of the right wing boogeyman that our debt is going to crush us UNLESS CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT NOW CUT but only dinky programs that republicans hate and lets use those tax cuts which only ever increase revenue. This doesn't mean our debt is serious or shouldn't be managed appropriately it just means it isn't the evil looming monster nipping at our heels they make it out to be and quite often their answers to fix more often than not involve measures that do more harm than good.


And for the record the debt ceiling law is absolute ass face retarded and a perfect example of "big government" not effective government.

Our debt to gdp ratio is of around 104%. Thats pretty high.

No it really isn't. Not in any sense that matters economically. Doesn't mean we need to keep racking up the credit card so to speak but also isn't anything we can't easily handle over time. The real problem is a lack of agreement on how to do it but even so realistically speaking we do have time to kick it down the road. People have been pissing and moaning about how the "imminent crash" was going to come since before Reagan. Still nothing.

And it's especially not a big deal when you consider the importance of the dollar and all the shit we've gotten as a result of it.

[Glorious Leader]

Hey look someone who actually understands debt and isn't spooked by the stupid nominal numbers which mean shit.

This guy has said it perfectly. Read a book called Lords of Finance. Both an economic and historical perspective undermine the notion of the right wing boogeyman that our debt is going to crush us UNLESS CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT NOW CUT but only dinky programs that republicans hate and lets use those tax cuts which only ever increase revenue. This doesn't mean our debt is serious or shouldn't be managed appropriately it just means it isn't the evil looming monster nipping at our heels they make it out to be and quite often their answers to fix more often than not involve measures that do more harm than good.


And for the record the debt ceiling law is absolute ass face retarded and a perfect example of "big government" not effective government.

For the record those same republicans always tend to grow deficits as well. Talk of cuts is cheap because they know its garbage and theyve been quite honest about it if youblisten to them. Cheney said deficits dont matter. Greenspan said the US can meet whatever obligation is valued in USD.

[Glorious Leader]

Hey look someone who actually understands debt and isn't spooked by the stupid nominal numbers which mean shit.

This guy has said it perfectly. Read a book called Lords of Finance. Both an economic and historical perspective undermine the notion of the right wing boogeyman that our debt is going to crush us UNLESS CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT NOW CUT but only dinky programs that republicans hate and lets use those tax cuts which only ever increase revenue. This doesn't mean our debt is serious or shouldn't be managed appropriately it just means it isn't the evil looming monster nipping at our heels they make it out to be and quite often their answers to fix more often than not involve measures that do more harm than good.


And for the record the debt ceiling law is absolute ass face retarded and a perfect example of "big government" not effective government.

For the record those same republicans always tend to grow deficits as well. Talk of cuts is cheap because they know its garbage and theyve been quite honest about it if youblisten to them. Cheney said deficits dont matter. Greenspan said the US can meet whatever obligation is valued in USD.

Im not one for prognastication but this is a pretty safe bet. The republicans will leave the country in further debt after trumps term and then look at democrats and say hey its your debt now guys. They will then proceed to obstruct claiming fiscal concerns even thought thats a galing hypocrisy.

[shimerra]

For the record those same republicans always tend to grow deficits as well. Talk of cuts is cheap because they know its garbage and theyve been quite honest about it if youblisten to them. Cheney said deficits dont matter. Greenspan said the US can meet whatever obligation is valued in USD.

Oh that's exactly my point though. They piss and moan and whine about how we need to slash bloated government and pay the debt. Then they cut taxes for only the wealthy, raise it slightly on the lower brackets, and wonder why deficits boom and the economy doesn't magically do better. Anyone with a brain can see it but the whole grover norquest nonsense has small minded people ranting and raving about how tax cuts willl cure cancer

[Huehuecoyotl]

His tax plan will be designed to be good for the average person.

Unfortunately he will work out what the average person is by going round all the people he appointed to offices since he was elected. Which means the average will be a net worth of about $250m. Still, once all the tax breaks start to trickle down, it will MAGA before you know it.

[NED funded]

Nope its not. The UK had a debt to GDP ratio after the second world war of 250% and it didn't just manage, it boomed for the next 30 years. Just because you think the debt to GDP is high doesn't mean it is. Gov debt doesn't function like household debt and so the rules and consequences governing it are not the same. What person do you know that is immortal and creates his own money to use?

Buaagg Macro is bs. ML >Standard Econometrics in forecasting. NGDP targeting sucks and Keynes was a socialist in disguise.

This is my way of saying: I'm wrong, my bad.Also I don't even know what NGDP targeting is.

[BrerBear]

His goal is that everyone will benefit from it. The rich, who generally are the ones who own companies and create jobs will benefit most from it. The poor who are not paying any taxes now and are on government assistance anyway, will not of course benefit more than they are now with the exception they may actually have better job opportunities.

This is working out great for Kansas!
Oh, you guys haven't been paying attention to what happens when the unified GOP enacts these policies?

[Dr Assbandit]

There are only 2 kinds of people who still think these tax cuts will benefit the average US citizen.

The people who will actually benefit from it and hence don't give a shit about anyone else, and those that are still under the delusions that trickle down economics work even though it has been shown time and time again to not be the case.

What's even worse is that taxes are being cut from the people who already have hoarded mass amounts of wealth and we are losing funding to valuable sciences and services on top of that.

There is a reason the Republican party is derided as the party of apathy. While Democrats also have special interest groups lobbying for their own interest, at least they aren't enacting policies screwing over their own constituents and the future of the US to line their own coffers under the guise of false compassion.

[unbound]

President Trump has told the AP that he will be announcing his tax reform plan next week, my question is simple.

If you're a Trump supporter what do you expect his tax plan will be and who will benefit from his plan the most.

Who will benefit? Not the vast majority of Trump supporters and quite a few rich will come out of this even richer (hence why so many rich people donated to Trump's inauguration), but that's okay...conservative news media will reassure them that the massive tax cuts will produce jobs everywhere due to magic, and that any problems are due to Democrats despite them having no power whatsoever (just like they are being blamed for the past couple of months...entirely laughable, but Republicans are lapping it up).

In fact, listening to conservative media, you'll be amazed at how long it will be Obama's fault for anything and everything that has issues.

How can I make such a bold prediction? I still remember 2001 thru 2008 quite well. Everything that didn't go well was blamed on Clinton pretty much to the end of Bush II's 2nd term.

Now, I understand partisan spin and all, but these stances are laughable coming from the party of personal responsibility.

[Allybeboba]

Can't help but be amused by people judging something that hasn't happened. Yet, people seem to prejudge these actions before they even take place.
Would that make these people "prejudice"?

[Sky High]

Can't help but be amused by people judging something that hasn't happened. Yet, people seem to prejudge these actions before they even take place.
Would that make these people "prejudice"?

so what? It's not like there is some nuance in there we're all missing.

[Allybeboba]

so what? It's not like there is some nuance in there we're all missing.

You don't find it amusing that people are judging something before it has been announced exactly what it is? Even more amusing is that people are debating over it.

[Draco-Onis]

You don't find it amusing that people are judging something before it has been announced exactly what it is? Even more amusing is that people are debating over it.

His tax plan was released scored and analyzed while he ran as a candidate, there's no indication that he is going to stray from that blueprint.

[Sky High]

You don't find it amusing that people are judging something before it has been announced exactly what it is? Even more amusing is that people are debating over it.

cuuud not give a shit less what you find amusing braj. I mean we're all going off of what he has said, who he is, and the people he surrounds himself with. oh also we already know he's giving a nice sloppy blowie to international corporations to skip on their taxes. sooo yeah take that smug and shove right up ya butt, where it belongs.

[Infracted]

[BrerBear]

His tax plan was released scored and analyzed while he ran as a candidate, there's no indication that he is going to stray from that blueprint.

Well, to be Devil's Advocate, Trump has broken just about every campaign policy.
It'll probably be much worse.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't help but be amused by people judging something that hasn't happened. Yet, people seem to prejudge these actions before they even take place.
Would that make these people "prejudice"?

Yeah, remember when Trump railed on Wall Street during his campaign, before he appointed a whole bunch of them to his cabinet?
Good times.

[Felya]

You don't find it amusing that people are judging something before it has been announced exactly what it is? Even more amusing is that people are debating over it.

Some of us have been paying attention:

http://web.archive.org/web/201701010...cies/tax-plan/

[Sky High]

Yeah, remember when Trump railed on Wall Street during his campaign, before he appointed a whole bunch of them to his cabinet?
Good times.

"Ted Cruz and Clinton are shills for Goldman Saches! sad!" "i'm gonna negotiate with wall street on a deal for the american people! believe me, it'll be tremendous".

[Felya]

Well, to be Devil's Advocate, Trump has broken just about every campaign policy.
It'll probably be much worse.

It now 404s on his site. People who were not paying attention might not remember or know where to check archives to see it. Before anyone cries 'but, Hillary removed her campaign policy too'. Nope, still up...