Where are the Resto shaman/Shaman Changes....

[obesemidget]

Every patch this expac seems to have multiple changes/tweeks except for Resto shaman that has had Riptide/torrent nerf and a 20% sp to chainheal nerf. I believe healing stream totem was buffed but for the most part there hasnt been a single change to our spec. 7.2 was a blank slate as far as shaman goes 7.1.5 simular. I would like a little bit of representation from the development team.

[Deleted]

Mostly because they are nicely balanced at current gear levels and dont need changes until new tier.

Enh on the other side has issues with rotation itself (and it might be why they nerfed damage - to stop people from having to play that spec over ele)

[obesemidget]

I don't know when I start pushing higher keys I struggle to get people from 15%health back to full in time. I wish shaman single target spells had more pop.

[krl]

RShams are fine. I'm perfectly happy with the state of the spec, as an average healer progressing M NH (half done) and doing 10-15 keys. If anything, I hope we don't change too much entering ToS, and I liked a lot our new golden trait+HR buff, as they correspond exactly to my playstyle.

What do you mean by higher keys ? I don't have much experience above 15.
If it's lower, imho we don't have healing power problems. That's what CDs are for. The standard Undulation/CW/Asc build is very strong for this.

[Elmurda]

We are fine. Maybe its your playstyle?

[ItsTiddles]

We could use a little love in the raid department, but our only issue in m+ is our squishyness and our lack of tank cd. I don't think I've ever felt like my class was a problem in m+ outside of dying to abilities like Feed on the Weak in higher DHT tyrannical.

[Koor]

I don't know when I start pushing higher keys I struggle to get people from 15%health back to full in time. I wish shaman single target spells had more pop.

If you refer to last week with grievous, yeah we were particularly weak in it, but that's more of an issue with the affix applying the debuff at 90% HP, which conflicts with our mastery that wants players to be low HP. We are good for the other affixes.

[Deleted]

I don't know when I start pushing higher keys I struggle to get people from 15%health back to full in time. I wish shaman single target spells had more pop.

Stack more mastery then

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We could use a little love in the raid department, but our only issue in m+ is our squishyness and our lack of tank cd. I don't think I've ever felt like my class was a problem in m+ outside of dying to abilities like Feed on the Weak in higher DHT tyrannical.

Surely you're joking. We bring everything to the table except super stronk tank cooldowns

[Sonqopura]

I am just quoting this, but it is intended for everyone who believes that rshamans are fine at the moment. I will agree that we are in a solid state bringing a lot to the table especially in raids with raid cd's. This is the main reason that almost every guild uses at least 1 rshaman for Mythic progress. The overall state of the healers is somewhat balanced with druids and priests at the top, followed by paladins and then shamans, monks. Our numbers definitely need to be boosted a bit, for instance the nerf on chain heal was uncalled for (jonat's I can somewhat understand it was too powerful). As a shaman who parses mostly >97% pre-patch as well as now on mythic raids always looking out to improve my playstyle and tailor it to each fight, experienced players will agree with me that we need to bring our A game to be on par with other good healers from different classes. Resto shamans do need some minor buffs here and there. Our T19 set bonus was a rather unpleasant surprise, which even though provided a decent throughput increase in raids, in m+ it is utterly useless especially for high keys, where you do not have the luxury to waste a GCD for HST mid-fight. The new artifact traits are decent, with the 4 point in spiritwalker's grace being the most retarded thing I have ever seen, while the rest of the healing classes received a 4 trait buff. Our new golden trait is also decent, but you need to now pair it with CBT, since the 2nd heal is usually overheal and you need to feed it into the totem. Also as an experienced m+ player with 2k mythic score pre-patch and a world first CoS 24 with tyrannical, I have to say that even though we are more than fine for most occasions when pushing high keys e.g. 22+, there are certain scenarios where our kit simply does not allow us to heal that specific dungeon with the respective affixes. For instance, going 22 HoV and above pre-patch with tyrannical was impossible for a resto shaman. Quoting what TigerTiddles said regarding our squishyness, he is absolutely correct. There are certain scenarios where shamans just die, and if you think otherwise, that just means that you are not doing high enough keys to experience that. I have not really gotten into m+ this patch yet, but from some dungeons that I did last week, I was not able to heal the first boss on cathedral +19 with grevious and tyrannical, as I was going oom at 30-40%. But this is mostly bad grevious design and I hope that will be fixed, since when grevious is up rshamans are mostly rendered useless. It even forces us to move away from AV when grevious is up and switch to EST which is useless in m+. All in all, we are in a decent state, but we do need some minor tweaks to get us on par with the rest of the healers. This is just my humble opinion after a looooot of testing and pushing each content to its limit.

[krl]

If you refer to last week with grievous, yeah we were particularly weak in it, but that's more of an issue with the affix applying the debuff at 90% HP, which conflicts with our mastery that wants players to be low HP. We are good for the other affixes.

It conflicts not only with our mastery, but also with Spirit Link Totem, with Ancestral Vigor, with Ancestral Protection Totem and with GotQ.

[Ajjax]

I don't have any issues healing NH mythic or 10-17 mythic plus keys. Not saying it's your playstyle but it could be a different healer will fit your style better? I've changed healers once because i couldn't play a resto druid for shit lol

[Jynus]

Stack more mastery then

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Surely you're joking. We bring everything to the table except super stronk tank cooldowns

at the expense of about 20-30% hps lower compared to other healers. Which is a bit steep imo. a buff is warranted.

[Deleted]

at the expense of about 20-30% hps lower compared to other healers. Which is a bit steep imo. a buff is warranted.

We're king on progression fights, always have been. We're equal to paladins and mistweavers are just abysmal right now

[Ajjax]

at the expense of about 20-30% hps lower compared to other healers. Which is a bit steep imo. a buff is warranted.

This class isn't designed to be a pure hps thrower like a druid man. If so you care about are numbers go to a numbers-centric healing class, we don't need a bug, resto shaman are doing just fine.

[Deleted]

Changes to resto shaman are particularly minor. But we don't need that many changes imo. It would be nice if wellspring was buffed a bit, saying that they are reducing the mana cost in 7.2.5 by 43%. We are great raid healers and can bring so much to a raid. It just would be nice if they adapted chain heal a bit instead of straying us away from it completely. However there are loads of different ways you can raid heal as a shaman at the moment. For example. You can go cool down burst cannon with cloudburst totem or having a steady stream of healing focusing the shit of our your healing stream totem and 4 set. I love spells like chain heal and wellspring, maybe next expansion they will adapt these spells a bit but not for now! TOS will be interesting with the new tier.

[Jynus]

This class isn't designed to be a pure hps thrower like a druid man. If so you care about are numbers go to a numbers-centric healing class, we don't need a bug, resto shaman are doing just fine.

Yes I care about numbers. Damage happens, numbers fix it. The fact you don't seem to is telling just howout of touch you are to healing.

If shaman is supposed to be utility King and hps Joker, then fine, that's cool. But the disparity shouldn't be as great as it is for numbers.

[Ajjax]

Yes I care about numbers. Damage happens, numbers fix it. The fact you don't seem to is telling just howout of touch you are to healing.

If shaman is supposed to be utility King and hps Joker, then fine, that's cool. But the disparity shouldn't be as great as it is for numbers.

the lawls in this comment are 10/10. Yeah im out of touch kiddo sooooo out of touch. Look at logs, shamans are just fine. Then look at your own play and figure out what you are doing wrong. Because I and many other resto shammys have zero issues hitting the numbers.

[ItsTiddles]

the lawls in this comment are 10/10. Yeah im out of touch kiddo sooooo out of touch. Look at logs, shamans are just fine. Then look at your own play and figure out what you are doing wrong. Because I and many other resto shammys have zero issues hitting the numbers.

I don't think you're aware of the problem as a whole, which is understandable since not everyone can see a problem where there is one. "Hitting the numbers" for us takes more effort than other classes and we're still limited directly by how effective our other healers are. (hurr hurr everyone is) Unless you go a full crit/haste build for farm, there's 0 reason for our spec to be there. There is only 1 mythic fight where the top shaman parse is within 100k hps of the top parse and it's still 90k less from one of the best resto shamans with 4 innervates and Wisdom on Elisande, a fight where we get a massive lead during phase 1. While I'll admit that I don't believe shamans should be on the top of the meters, I still think it's sad that our class essentially boils down to one totem on certain mechanics on progression.

[Gunwolf]

Changes to resto shaman are particularly minor. But we don't need that many changes imo. It would be nice if wellspring was buffed a bit, saying that they are reducing the mana cost in 7.2.5 by 43%. We are great raid healers and can bring so much to a raid. It just would be nice if they adapted chain heal a bit instead of straying us away from it completely. However there are loads of different ways you can raid heal as a shaman at the moment. For example. You can go cool down burst cannon with cloudburst totem or having a steady stream of healing focusing the shit of our your healing stream totem and 4 set. I love spells like chain heal and wellspring, maybe next expansion they will adapt these spells a bit but not for now! TOS will be interesting with the new tier.

Well, you got two typical builds... the CHL centric one for raid heals, and the Rip/HS/HW one for M+ dungeons. I like how distinct in gameplay those builds are and both are effective. Then you have cloudburst like u mentioned, which is basically its own playstyle and stuff like healspam, AG and GotQ to help feed it. CHL gets some decent support with talents and legendaries, but I agree that Wellspring could prob use something more... seems like a cool spell but rarely used.


For CHL, I haven't tried this build cause I don't have the legendaries yet but something like....

Talents:

Unleash Life - buff heals (inc CHL) by 45%
Deluge - +20% to CHL if in HR
High Tide - More CHL jumps

Legendaries:

- Focuser of jonat, ring : HW/HS stack buff for CHL up to 50%
- Elemental rebalancer, boots : allies get +10% heals if in HR


Seems like it would be a real strong build for raid healing with CHL... which gets buffs from all over, and with the new traits/set bonuses we will want HR down often too. Some great synergy for CHL... has anyone tried this out?



For Wellspring, I have been wanting a more wide range/spread burst aoe heal for some time now. It was basically the one thing we lacked in our toolkit (besides a tank cd), with good raid heals but stacked/sustained and not spread/burst aoe healing. This sorta addresses that, but could use some tweaks. I had lots of suggestions to try and design a spell like this in the past. My favorite one was called "Ripple" and was basically priests Halo spell with a wide healing ring that spreads out to 40yds but then bounces back inward... healing targets twice. Could be same type of healing both ways, or maybe just general spread heals going outward and then smart heals on 6 targets going inward... something like that.

So maybe Wellspring can have a ripple effect, and after it goes out to max range will bounce back in (possibly with the inward heals being smart healing). Another option is to add another effect to it, like a buff, hot or absorb. We got plenty of hots, GotQ gives hp buff, but no absorbs, and lost our old golden trait which was gonna give us an absorb so it would be great if Wellspring applied a small absorb shield on allies who get healed.

Just some ideas. I feel like to compare with Ascendance and High Tide, Wellspring needs something extra to stand out.

Yes I care about numbers. Damage happens, numbers fix it. The fact you don't seem to is telling just howout of touch you are to healing.

If shaman is supposed to be utility King and hps Joker, then fine, that's cool. But the disparity shouldn't be as great as it is for numbers.

I think you are missing the point. Healing is not the same as damage... for damage, numbers is all that matters. For healing, its not always how much u heal... but who you heal and when. If you have less overall healing at the end of the fight, but you saved people from dying when they were at 10% hp with clutch heals, or ur cd's like SLT/HTT/CBT/Ascend kept several people from dying at key moments.... then u did your job. If u just downed that mythic boss or finished that M+15... it doesn't matter if ur low on the heal meters, cause the boss is dead and ur raid is not.

Most mythic raid guilds bring 3 healers typically, a druid pally and shammy. Thats cause all 3 of these healers synergize well and are good overall. Holy priest is fine too, but not brought as much.... disc lags behind, and MW is even more behind and less played with both disc and MW having mana probs. Clearly if resto sham is brought by majority of raid guilds then we are doing something right. Even if u look at healer representation in high M+ keys, like +15... druid is top tier, then pally/shammy/holypriest, and then mw/disc. We got a good variety of heals with great utility toolkit. As you have heard many times, our mastery is great for progression and works best when people need it most.... but when a raid learns fight, our heals become less effective, and we can't "pad meters" as easily as say a druid whose heals and hots will heal raid the same at 30% or 90%.

Shaman has places it can be improved on, but its not all that bad... u can't get too stuck on the numbers. Better you compare yourself to other resto shaman then other healer classes if u want something to base ur performance off of.

[Ajjax]

I don't think you're aware of the problem as a whole, which is understandable since not everyone can see a problem where there is one. "Hitting the numbers" for us takes more effort than other classes and we're still limited directly by how effective our other healers are. (hurr hurr everyone is) Unless you go a full crit/haste build for farm, there's 0 reason for our spec to be there. There is only 1 mythic fight where the top shaman parse is within 100k hps of the top parse and it's still 90k less from one of the best resto shamans with 4 innervates and Wisdom on Elisande, a fight where we get a massive lead during phase 1. While I'll admit that I don't believe shamans should be on the top of the meters, I still think it's sad that our class essentially boils down to one totem on certain mechanics on progression.

Thats fair, i just dont have any issues with the current shaman kit as a whole. If i had to pick one thing to change it would be our mastery. But, whatev, im still having fun, i didnt get in to this class to be top of the charts on pure numbers all the time. There are fights where we can top.