Look how great Odynn is! (warrior hall Odyn lore)

[CthulhuFhtagn]

It's worth noting that the Titan Keepers (except for Odyn) decided to empower the Aspects because of their own mistakes with Galakrond - they were growing ever more distant with the evolving mortal life on Azeroth. Tyr wisely saw that this was the lot of immortal and alien beings that were not part of the order of created things like the proto-drakes and other life on Azeroth. They missed the danger of Galakrond and barely responded to it in time, almost dooming the world they had been entrusted with in the process. Odyn disagreed but he was also just as inactive - a sign that Tyr may not have been too far off the mark with his assessment of the Keepers' growing inability to serve in their role.

Yogg-Saron's influence on the Keepers might have also been a strong factor in their growing indolence, as well.

What exactly happened with Galakrond? The lore I've been able to find says he was a massive protodragon, how the proto-aspects killed him which lead to the Keepers sans Odyn to empower them, and that the Aspects perpetuated the myth they originated from Galakrond to hide the terrible truth. What terrible truth? Was Galakrond a failed Keeper experiment or something?

[Aucald]

What exactly happened with Galakrond? The lore I've been able to find says he was a massive protodragon, how the proto-aspects killed him which lead to the Keepers sans Odyn to empower them, and that the Aspects perpetuated the myth they originated from Galakrond to hide the terrible truth. What terrible truth? Was Galakrond a failed Keeper experiment or something?

The short story collection "Dawn of the Aspects" details Galakrond's rise and fall, if you're interested in the story. In summary Galakrond's evolution took a decidedly odd turn - he was himself a giant proto-drake/proto-dragon that became cannibalistic and also began infecting other proto-drakes with a zombie/rage virus, and vomiting up zombie proto-drakes that he consumed that were also under his command (acting as a kind of primal proto-dragon Lich King in essence). As he consumed more and more of the proto-dragonflights he grew in size and power until he was nearly the size of a flying mountain.

The five future Aspects, in primitive proto-drake forms, discovered their connectivity to one-another (which appears to be motivated or caused by Tyr's direct influence) and join up to try to stop Galakrond from killing the entirety of their kind. They band together and with the help of Tyr, the only Keeper who foresaw the threat to Azeroth that Galakrond represented, defeat Galakrond conclusively. Tyr saw the power of the dragonflights united in the five proto-drakes who defied a power like Galakrond and suggested to the other Keepers that arrived to see the aftermath of Galakrond's defeat that the proto-drakes should be appointed and empowered to monitor the evolutionary processes of Azeroth to ensure another threat like Galakrond would not arise. Odyn himself does not appear in the story, but future lore confirms this was because he felt Tyr and the other Keepers' judgment was in error.

Tyr imples in "Dawn of the Aspects" that Galakrond's mutation was his fault, but the evolution of Galakrond bears very distinctive hallmarks to Old God corruption - a multitude of extra eyes, arms, and tentacles were present on his form when his mutation was at its zenith. There's unfortunately no real confirmation as to what exactly went wrong with Galakrond outside Tyr's brief allusion and the Old God connotations of its warped form.

[Wildmoon]

The titans didn't empower the dragon aspects. The titans charged the keepers with protecting Azeroth with Odyn as their leader. After watching the proto-dragons, the other keepers decided they would pass their duties and bestow powers onto the soon to be dragons. Odyn told them no as the the titans charged them with protecting Azeroth, not the dragons, but the other keepers did it anyways

The titans empowered the aspects. It was the titans's power channeled through conduits which were the keepers.

[CthulhuFhtagn]

The short story collection "Dawn of the Aspects" details Galakrond's rise and fall, if you're interested in the story. In summary Galakrond's evolution took a decidedly odd turn - he was himself a giant proto-drake/proto-dragon that became cannibalistic and also began infecting other proto-drakes with a zombie/rage virus, and vomiting up zombie proto-drakes that he consumed that were also under his command (acting as a kind of primal proto-dragon Lich King in essence). As he consumed more and more of the proto-dragonflights he grew in size and power until he was nearly the size of a flying mountain.

The five future Aspects, in primitive proto-drake forms, discovered their connectivity to one-another (which appears to be motivated or caused by Tyr's direct influence) and join up to try to stop Galakrond from killing the entirety of their kind. They band together and with the help of Tyr, the only Keeper who foresaw the threat to Azeroth that Galakrond represented, defeat Galakrond conclusively. Tyr saw the power of the dragonflights united in the five proto-drakes who defied a power like Galakrond and suggested to the other Keepers that arrived to see the aftermath of Galakrond's defeat that the proto-drakes should be appointed and empowered to monitor the evolutionary processes of Azeroth to ensure another threat like Galakrond would not arise. Odyn himself does not appear in the story, but future lore confirms this was because he felt Tyr and the other Keepers' judgment was in error.

Tyr imples in "Dawn of the Aspects" that Galakrond's mutation was his fault, but the evolution of Galakrond bears very distinctive hallmarks to Old God corruption - a multitude of extra eyes, arms, and tentacles were present on his form when his mutation was at its zenith. There's unfortunately no real confirmation as to what exactly went wrong with Galakrond outside Tyr's brief allusion and the Old God connotations of its warped form.

The Keepers' decision to empower the Aspects makes even more sense now. Can't protect a world if you're too far removed from it.

[Zandalariprelate]

The Keepers' decision to empower the Aspects makes even more sense now. Can't protect a world if you're too far removed from it.

So far any plan in wow had been backfired in some way, even Sargeras legion looks like had the day counted because some of his generals are too impatient to fight a very long term war, the old gods created the curse of flesh to corrupt the creations of the keepers and titans which turn out it gave them more power and was the undoing of 3 of them(ironic that own creation of yogg saron turn against him and killed the god of death), wrathion with his private war between horde and alliance cause draenor and the legion arrive, i won't be surprised if even Elune and Void Lords had blackfired plans like the titans were created originally to destroy the universe and for some reason they prefer create rather than destroy

[TheFirstOnes]

Odyn: I'm a creation of the titans. I can do what I want with NO FUCKING CONSEQUENCES! Why? Cause, i'm fucking odyn!

Me: Odyn, you dumbass.

Helya: I turned into a Val'kyr, I forced the "Heroes" of azeroth to stay in my realm, and I imprisoned Odyn for a while. I Am against the Legion, BUT I AM THE BEST! WOOHOO! FUCK ODYN, AND FUCK THE HEROES! AHAHA!

Me: ...God damn it helya...

Sylvanas: I made a Promise to helya, I want to gain immortality to not only defeat the alliance, but to also help my people. Genn is an old wolf, and I am a dumbass who can't realize the simple fact that the Legion exists....

Horde Fanboys: OMG! SYLVANAS IS THE BEST! FUCK ODYN/HELYA! SYLVANAS IS GOOD THOUGH! THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HER!

Alliance fanboys: Fuck Sylvanas. I hope Genn dis-mantles the Horde, and I hope Anduin goes big dick on her bitch ass, as well.

Me: ....God damn it, factional conflict.

[Kralljin]

Odyn ended up being correct on this which is interesting.

Considering we had to beat the living shit out any living Titan Keeper except him to get them back on track points towards the fact that Titanforged aren't that much better.

After all, Odyn basically built his own prison cell around him and gave the key to a person which he killed and enslaved.

[Zulkhan]

But they were only thing almost as beardy, manly and valorous as him ! He had no other options.

I feel the shadow of judgement in your sarcasm. Leave the manchild old man alone, he had to do what needed to be done! For the sake of Valor™, for the sake of Azeroth, for the sake of manly beards.

[DeicideUH]

This version of the tale actually makes more sense than the Chronicle's version.

And it may be how Odyn truly perceives what happened as well. He may be telling the tale, but it doesn't mean he's lying. Maybe to him, making Helya a Val'kyr was a big favor, but actually Helya felt betrayed and only agreed to become a Val'kyr because it would be better than be left as a wraith.

Also, considering how Loken manipulated the other keepers, the following part about convincing Helya she was being controlled makes some sense.

[Friendlyimmolation]

This version of the tale actually makes more sense than the Chronicle's version.

And it may be how Odyn truly perceives what happened as well. He may be telling the tale, but it doesn't mean he's lying. Maybe to him, making Helya a Val'kyr was a big favor, but actually Helya felt betrayed and only agreed to become a Val'kyr because it would be better than be left as a wraith.

Also, considering how Loken manipulated the other keepers, the following part about convincing Helya she was being controlled makes some sense.

Chronicle gives lore to us from a non biased approach as apposed to a totally not biased Odyn is god tablet in the middle of his halls of Valor. It outright says Helya was bound to his will after being twisted into a Val'kyr. Odyn is either lying or is actually crazy.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This version of the tale actually makes more sense than the Chronicle's version.

And it may be how Odyn truly perceives what happened as well. He may be telling the tale, but it doesn't mean he's lying. Maybe to him, making Helya a Val'kyr was a big favor, but actually Helya felt betrayed and only agreed to become a Val'kyr because it would be better than be left as a wraith.

Also, considering how Loken manipulated the other keepers, the following part about convincing Helya she was being controlled makes some sense.

No, it's just history being rewritten to be favorable to Odin. Kinda like the AP item's flavor text rewriting Argus's history to show Velen as a traitor but in actuality he isn't.

[DeicideUH]

Chronicle gives lore to us from a non biased approach as apposed to a totally not biased Odyn is god tablet in the middle of his halls of Valor. It outright says Helya was bound to his will after being twisted into a Val'kyr. Odyn is either lying or is actually crazy.

I'm not saying this version is true and Chronicle is false. I know Chronicle has the ultimate truth.

But, from a storytelling standpoint, and considering Odyn's personality shown so far, this version fits better than him murdering Helya and forcing her into servitude. It doesn't fit his character IMO.

Also, this version may be how Odyn perceives the whole thing. I mean:

Chronicles: Odyn killed and forced Helya to become Val'kyr against her will.
Odyn: Helya was against. We fought. She turned into a right. She offered to become a Val'kyr because it was better than be a wraith.

Aren't those essentially the same thing? In both versions they fought because Helya was against Odyn. In both versions she turns into a Val'kyr. The only difference is that in Chronicles she was against being turned into a Val'kyr, and in Odyn's version she was against the whole plan, but after being killed she agreed to be a Val'kyr (and I point out that she may have agreed because she was killed anyway, not because she liked the plan, so in both versions she did not want to be a Val'kyr initially).

Anyway, I really like Odyn. I really like how flawed he is, but still wants to do good. I like that he does wrong things for the right reasons, instead of being just another power-hungry evil character. I like that he's more hero than villain, despite his flaws.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm not saying this version is true and Chronicle is false. I know Chronicle has the ultimate truth.

But, from a storytelling standpoint, and considering Odyn's personality shown so far, this version fits better than him murdering Helya and forcing her into servitude. It doesn't fit his character IMO.

Also, this version may be how Odyn perceives the whole thing. I mean:

Chronicles: Odyn killed and forced Helya to become Val'kyr against her will.
Odyn: Helya was against. We fought. She turned into a right. She offered to become a Val'kyr because it was better than be a wraith.

Aren't those essentially the same thing? In both versions they fought because Helya was against Odyn. In both versions she turns into a Val'kyr. The only difference is that in Chronicles she was against being turned into a Val'kyr, and in Odyn's version she was against the whole plan, but after being killed she agreed to be a Val'kyr (and I point out that she may have agreed because she was killed anyway, not because she liked the plan, so in both versions she did not want to be a Val'kyr initially).

Anyway, I really like Odyn. I really like how flawed he is, but still wants to do good. I like that he does wrong things for the right reasons, instead of being just another power-hungry evil character. I like that he's more hero than villain, despite his flaws.

He may seem like a hero to us the players ingame but from an reader's perspective he's pretty terrible. Odyn can perceive all he bloody wants, doesn't mean jackshit because the Chronicle shows what he truly is.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I'm not saying this version is true and Chronicle is false. I know Chronicle has the ultimate truth.

But, from a storytelling standpoint, and considering Odyn's personality shown so far, this version fits better than him murdering Helya and forcing her into servitude. It doesn't fit his character IMO.

Also, this version may be how Odyn perceives the whole thing. I mean:

Chronicles: Odyn killed and forced Helya to become Val'kyr against her will.
Odyn: Helya was against. We fought. She turned into a right. She offered to become a Val'kyr because it was better than be a wraith.

Aren't those essentially the same thing? In both versions they fought because Helya was against Odyn. In both versions she turns into a Val'kyr. The only difference is that in Chronicles she was against being turned into a Val'kyr, and in Odyn's version she was against the whole plan, but after being killed she agreed to be a Val'kyr (and I point out that she may have agreed because she was killed anyway, not because she liked the plan, so in both versions she did not want to be a Val'kyr initially).

Anyway, I really like Odyn. I really like how flawed he is, but still wants to do good. I like that he does wrong things for the right reasons, instead of being just another power-hungry evil character. I like that he's more hero than villain, despite his flaws.

I think Odyn wants to do good, but also can't stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with him. He either lies to convince himself hes all valor etc or being locked in the halls of valor so long turned his brain to mush, and he believes whatever he says. From a story point it makes perfect sense for him to try to change the story, admitting he was wrong would force him to admit that he's not a good guy.

[DeicideUH]

I think Odyn wants to do good, but also can't stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with him. He either lies to convince himself hes all valor etc or being locked in the halls of valor so long turned his brain to mush, and he believes whatever he says. From a story point it makes perfect sense for him to try to change the story, admitting he was wrong would force him to admit that he's not a good guy.

I agree with that.

Odyn is stubborn and thinks all he does is right.

The big problem with the Helya story, IMO, is that it's the only time (that we know) in which Odyn forced slavery on someone else. Yes, he kills a lot of people, but I don't see him as the type that would enslave anyone to do his bidding, and instead would look for someone brave or foolish enough to do his bidding willingly. Which is why I think this version fits him better than Chronicles.

(Again, I'm not saying Chronicles is not true; I'm saying that the writers weren't particularly thoughtful in that text. It felt OoC to me.)

[Friendlyimmolation]

I agree with that.

Odyn is stubborn and thinks all he does is right.

The big problem with the Helya story, IMO, is that it's the only time (that we know) in which Odyn forced slavery on someone else. Yes, he kills a lot of people, but I don't see him as the type that would enslave anyone to do his bidding, and instead would look for someone brave or foolish enough to do his bidding willingly. Which is why I think this version fits him better than Chronicles.

(Again, I'm not saying Chronicles is not true; I'm saying that the writers weren't particularly thoughtful in that text. It felt OoC to me.)

He enslaves Yrmihon or however its spelled as well during the Warrior quests because he finds it amusing.

[Arrashi]

I feel the shadow of judgement in your sarcasm. Leave the manchild old man alone, he had to do what needed to be done! For the sake of Valor™, for the sake of Azeroth, for the sake of manly beards.

On unrelated note - "shadow of judgement" is a great name for planetary destroyer class ship.

OT: If Odyn wanted to be left alone perphas he should remain valoring his meat in halls of valor.

[DeicideUH]

He enslaves Yrmihon or however its spelled as well during the Warrior quests because he finds it amusing.

Oh, nice to know. Haven't leveled my warrior yet (and doubt I will).

[Radaney]

He enslaves Yrmihon or however its spelled as well during the Warrior quests because he finds it amusing.

At our behest by the way. We actually come up with the idea and convince Odyn that Yhmiron should be eternally enslaved for his continued imputence and betrayel. Odyn finds it amusing and agrees.

That is our fault. Odyn was perfectly fine with Yhmiron staying dead and that's what he initially says before we convince him.

[DeicideUH]

At our behest by the way. We actually come up with the idea and convince Odyn that Yhmiron should be eternally enslaved for his continued imputence and betrayel. Odyn finds it amusing and agrees.

That is our fault. Odyn was perfectly fine with Yhmiron staying dead and that's what he initially says before we convince him.

Also nice to know.