Is Blizzard getting ready to delete survival in the next expansion?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

old survival best survival

your right we should go back to classic survival.

[Gaaz]

Facts: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=99
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=90
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=80
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=75
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=70
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=60
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=50
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=40
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=30
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=25

It isn't until 20th percentile that Survival isn't the top hunter spec. I'm sorry that you're just a bad player trying to argue something that isn't truthful. But first you need to learn how to be honest before Blizzard is even going to take a look at concerns.

OMG... Is there anywhere, anything in my posts that suggested that SV does not deliver in the damage department? Maybe, just maybe you should stop imagining things and look at the big picture? Despite being the top #1 spec for pure damage output for almost 80% of the expansion to this date, only frigging 3% of the hunter playerbase play it. Does that figure tell you anything? Can you imagine a situation where mages (for example) have 1 clearly dominant spec in terms of damage, but for some reason practically no one plays it? In case I still have not made it clear enough, or there is another reading comprehension problem, damage is not the issue. Mechanics of the spec is. It is not normal when the spec is barely tolerated despite being #1 in terms of primary output. And I bet that if you take away the (significant) damage advantage that the SV spec has (some people are after numbers only, playstyle has little meaning if the spec is not #1), this number will drop to literal non existance. Does that seem plausible? It certainly does to me. The spec reeks like a rotting fish in a dry dock after a week.
PS: As for my personal skill, I think I do just fine. Logging orange on all bosses is enough for me

[sarym13]

I predict some major changes to Survival for the next expansion, either a complete redesign of the Melee aspect of it (god pls no) or revert to Ranged with all our previously loved abilities, and some new ones (god pls yes)

[Muapa]

Survival needs a few things done to it i'll admit but i like the spec a lot. it's just frustrating the amount of stuff you have to keep up with and hope your artifact ability goes off before something falls off otherwise you lose quite a bit of damage. I'd love for the melee swinging from foe to foe to stay but seriously the pet should just come too so you don't lose a few seconds trying to get off flanking strike with no pet in sight because dash is on cooldown

[Not A Cat]

Considering the artifact grind for appearances and whatnot, if they made survival ranged again they would have to compensate players for those appearances.

I don't really see them doing that, hopefully they can make it more enjoyable though. Survival was the only hunter spec I enjoyed. To be fair, it still is the only one I enjoy, but so far melee survival is a clunky mess and not as fun to play as its ranged incarnation.

[threads]

Considering the artifact grind for appearances and whatnot, if they made survival ranged again they would have to compensate players for those appearances.

I don't really see them doing that, hopefully they can make it more enjoyable though. Survival was the only hunter spec I enjoyed. To be fair, it still is the only one I enjoy, but so far melee survival is a clunky mess and not as fun to play as its ranged incarnation.

might be wrong but wont you be able to mog cross spec appearances? SV playerbase is so small it probably won't even matter

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

Where's my staw. FoK it. Im reaching!

[Deleted]

So basically SV is not mentioned in a blue-post once since the expansion came out and you are already crying wolf about it being deleted?

[stevan021]

More importantly, while it seems like some players consider "adding a fourth spec" to be the obvious solution to such problems, Blizzard has been very stand-offish when it comes to adding four specs to classes, and they've only done so once in a very unique case, where Feral Combat was pretty much two specs/roles in one since Classic anyway. They are most likely afraid that adding a fourth spec to anymore classes will break the camel's back and have every class demand four specs, and why shouldn't they if a pure DPS class like hunter can?

It would be interesting if the next expansion instead of a bonus class/race we had a bonus spec for every class

Same question can be asked the other way around. Why did they delete a range spec that some enjoyed? You didn't lose anything if you didn't want to play it. Instead we got the atrocities of all three spec we have now.

And who is advocating for that or justifying what they did? They killed 1 kid and replaced it with another. Doesn't make killing the 2nd kid and reviving the 1st one in a blood ritual justified now.

[Gurg]

So basically SV is not mentioned in a blue-post once since the expansion came out and you are already crying wolf about it being deleted?

The issue is not is it mentioned or not, the issue is that nothing is, sadly, being done to a the junk pile of a spec that blizzard made while experimenting with melee hunter. Further more, not that they not doing much (survival received flat out DPS aura boost further confirming in which state is spec), they are completely ignoring pages and pages of feedback without even saying "its fine, you just dont know how to play it." (ex. monks in 5.0)

Looking at blizzards past and the way how they surgically killed off ranged survival in WoD by over-over-nerfing it, laying grounds for melee rework, seeing how not a single line of bluepost has mentioned survival since .1.5 patch, continuing trough .2.0 patch without even mentioning Hunters as a class in general and up to this point in time and blizzard ignoring pages and pages of feedback dancing around Hunters and keeping status quo its easy to ask this question tbh.

As someone who is a melee only player who invested A LOT of time into leveling a survival hunter from scratch during prepatch, gearing it trough PUG raids and continuing as main in legion for the period of 8months for about 4-5h a day every day, weekends even more since i was in progressive guild it came to the point that despite all feedback given i hit a brick wall and had to choose, bench or reroll, due to a fact that EVERY other class was able to outperform me with much less buttons pressed.
Survivals current build (even the passive one) has too many buttons to press which are short term buffs/debuffs/dots which can easily fall off, further more specs BASIC attack it self has a issue, a designers flaw i would say, where on target switching where there is a distance between two targets your pet simply lags behind, thus braking (unable to use it) your Flanking Strike which is your main attack, Mongoose Bite generator and hardest hitting ability.
This got even worse with .1.5 flat out DPS Aura buff where dropping off something ended up even more punishing.
In raids.. we had so many issues with explosive trap not triggering at all one some of the bosses, most notably Krosus where you literally stand below the boss, which were duck taped in hotfixes. Next to that, part of our damage relies on our traps, Caltrops and ET, i had so many issues with pushing ET, animation started, and tank moved boss. Trap didnt trigger.
Since now all hunters got traps, and for the sake of a being different and "class fantasy-ish" we got a passive that gave our traps additional effect after being "fully armed" for 2s. Explosive Trap's effect was that after fully arming, when triggered, it makes enemy miss with next melee attack.
This simply led down to the point where our tanks and me had a separate Voice Channel, and im not joking, so we can coordinate their movement and my traps, not to mention that, for max performance you had to actually macro your traps with [@player] and [@cursor] macros.

Now, dont get me wrong, survival DPS IS fine, the way how you accomplish it is not, spec it self feel that can pull out more, but you are simply unable to do so simply by its mechanics. At its core, survival feels and flows reaaaallyy good for moderate haste values, somewhere between 17-22% haste.
BUT as soon as you haste goes over that number you are simply racing against your clunky spec to perform optimal.

Now, it looks like blizzard has no clue what to do with hunters in general, even more with survival and they are letting it be with status quo.

With all that being said, with no actual bluepost regarding pages and pages of feedback or actually doing anything assuring even for .2.5 round of changes someone has to ask him self:"Why spent any more time on broken spec that is extremely clunky to play without NO GAINS at all, having almost twice as much buttons to press rotationally and being punished hard when some other classes can perform equally good with far less hustle? Ret palas, Enhance shamans - im looking at you."

[Khrux]

I personally enjoy Survival, its my offspec but i'm still 44 traits into it with a 930ilvl weapon and completed the challenge for the sexy spear appearance. However I still completely agree that the spec is a complete shitshow in terms of design, its incredibly fun in short bursts such as WQs, dungeons or even PvP but its just dreadful when played in long sustained combat environments such as raids.

Sure its dps is fine, its mobility between targets is great, its aoe/cleave is amazing but the spec itself has by far the worst flow in the game. Its completely disjointed and works against itself, it actually plays worse with more stats. Far too much ability bloat, in an expansion that reduced it for every other spec, far too much dot/debuff management with no inherent way to control uptimes outside of manual application which itself is a problem with mis-aligned durations and mongoose priorities.

I was shocked Survival wasn't mentioned in the 7.2.5 "classes we think are fucked" post, when they are adjusting all three fucking rogue specs....

All they've done to hunters since 7.1.5 is make MM worse and aura buff the three specs. With 7.2.5 they are raping BMs best legendary and nerfing wildcall making the spec feel worse overall, leaving MM as a mess most people hate but have learned to accept and ignoring Survival's existence.

Its pretty pathetic, I hate to display a victim complex but when Rogues/Warlocks are getting pseudo reworks in 7.2.5 and mages got one in 7.1.5 while hunters get an odd +% dmg aura or have their spec made worse you have to wonder wtf is Blizzard's deal with hunters?

[Restors]

Its literally 2 weeks into the ptr. You can't judge shit off of that especially when they're saying on multiple outlets that all the class changes haven't been released yet. It has nothing to do with "people will never learn" go look at my post history I'm no Blizzard supporter by any means, but making a crying post not even 2 full weeks into ptr is absurd.

No it's not! Its perfect time to actually raise concerns. I almost wanna laugh when people actually was worried bout numbers, others defending blizzard by stating "its 2 months of beta left", yet the numbers ppl feared became reality and actually hit on live servers. The thing with Blizzard is that they actually believe everything they do is almost perfect, just needs very few adjustments. They don't take into account that their design or idea might be horrible.

As soon as something is up for testing, immediate action such as feedback is actually required, if you want even remotely chance to get your voice and concerns heared.

[stevan021]

btw replace "his enemies" with "the legion" and your signature perfectly destribes DHs ^^

[XDurionX]

If they had wanted to erase survival, they wouldn't have put in any effort to completely overhaul it. This makes no sense.

WoD-Survival was my preferred spec, yes, but this claim is ridiculous.

[Zyky]

No it's not! Its perfect time to actually raise concerns. I almost wanna laugh when people actually was worried bout numbers, others defending blizzard by stating "its 2 months of beta left", yet the numbers ppl feared became reality and actually hit on live servers. The thing with Blizzard is that they actually believe everything they do is almost perfect, just needs very few adjustments. They don't take into account that their design or idea might be horrible.

As soon as something is up for testing, immediate action such as feedback is actually required, if you want even remotely chance to get your voice and concerns heared.

2 months of beta left and 1 year of beta left are what we're debating here. "Beta" literally just came out 2 weeks ago, it isn't the time to be complaining.

- - - Updated - - -

OMG... Is there anywhere, anything in my posts that suggested that SV does not deliver in the damage department? Maybe, just maybe you should stop imagining things and look at the big picture? Despite being the top #1 spec for pure damage output for almost 80% of the expansion to this date, only frigging 3% of the hunter playerbase play it. Does that figure tell you anything? Can you imagine a situation where mages (for example) have 1 clearly dominant spec in terms of damage, but for some reason practically no one plays it? In case I still have not made it clear enough, or there is another reading comprehension problem, damage is not the issue. Mechanics of the spec is. It is not normal when the spec is barely tolerated despite being #1 in terms of primary output. And I bet that if you take away the (significant) damage advantage that the SV spec has (some people are after numbers only, playstyle has little meaning if the spec is not #1), this number will drop to literal non existance. Does that seem plausible? It certainly does to me. The spec reeks like a rotting fish in a dry dock after a week.
PS: As for my personal skill, I think I do just fine. Logging orange on all bosses is enough for me

So is sub rogue, outlaw rogue, and arms warrior. Your point? Does that mean those 3 specs are getting deleted too? Does that mean that Arms is being deleted since they got nothing on ptr yet? Calm the fuck down, seriously lol. People like you have no patience, you have no perception on when the correct time to complain is. 2 weeks into PTR when they haven't had a chance to put everything out, is no the correct time.

[Gaaz]

So is sub rogue, outlaw rogue, and arms warrior. Your point? Does that mean those 3 specs are getting deleted too? Does that mean that Arms is being deleted since they got nothing on ptr yet? Calm the fuck down, seriously lol. People like you have no patience, you have no perception on when the correct time to complain is. 2 weeks into PTR when they haven't had a chance to put everything out, is no the correct time.

Okay... Reading comprehension lesson #2 - is there anything, anywhere in my posts that says that I think the spec is going to be deleted? As for rogues and warriors, their specs are in constant flux. Their order changes so rapidly that people gravitate towards something that is more mechanically sound. At the start of Legion, Arms was dominating. Somewhere along (had not paid attention really) Fury became the go to spec. Now Arms is getting a come back. Give it a little time and Arms will catch up to Fury. Same goes for Assasination vs Outlaw. Sub is a little screwed by facing requirements as I understand. But in any case, logs show that people still do better on average with Fury and Assasination. Naturally they are the more popular specs. As for SV, the spec has been dominating damage meters over the other 2 for almost the entire time, from Legion day 1 to the current day. Yet, its population speaks for itself.

[Riistov]

They're not gonna turn it back into a ranged spec. At most, it will receive major changes like Demo locks at start of Legion.

They will if no ones playing it, and right now no one is playing it (apart from a few pvpers).

They either need to make it do something awesome, or turn it back into the hunter ranged DoT spec everyone enjoyed.

[hawtlol]

Doesn't need an overhaul is why. Anyone complaining about Survival hunters just doesn't know how to play one. My numbers are just fine in Mythic NH. I'm 7/10M with Augur at 1% and I'm finishing anywhere between 1-5 on every fight.

[c000]

not that it matters, but wish they would have rolled melee into beast-spec. then i could live out my Rexxar fantasies. survival could have been a ranged class that used variety of traps as main damage component.

[ozusteapot]

Yes, we lose something. It is called Survival ranged spec, that was my favourite spec of hunter and was butchered in Legion to add another pointless meele to the game that almost noone plays anyway. They should get rid of it and bring back old survival, or at least bring back old survi with another name and theme (but same core gameplay).



Uwotm8? BM is extremely reliant on legendaries, both in terms of gameplay and dps. Especially with Mantle of Command, which gives second dire beast - which resolves much of spec clunkiness and gives it tons of dps.

I'm fully aware, 'm8', but with proper stat scaling BM currently can dish out far more dps than most other classes, especially with bloodlust. I can spurr icyveins quotes all day as well, but the truth is that you don't need mantle to be among the top dpsers in most if not all raid comps.