Is frost op?

[danieltang34]

linking 99th percentile parses dont mean shit. every top parse is people cheesing fights not doing mechanics.

90th is a more reasonable metric, and frost is 4th. hardly op. now, i would agree that our damage ceiling is very high, but that is because of double ice lance, which in my opinion should be removed. still not as broken as affliction warlocks though who literally only press 1 button for 95% of their damage.

Word
Frost mages double dip from rng and our dps is pretty high when stars align (direct damage plus icy vein duratiom) thats why 99 and 100 parses are so much higher than 95 and 90 parses
I would agree frost is very strong in st/2target cleave fights, but I'm not convinced that it's op when rng isn't exceptionally crazy
Not to mention our aoe is super mediocre
Aff is the real outlier here and frost mage is not even close

Edit: frost mage is definitely top 5 dps right now but I dont think it's "op"

[Requimortem]

Good grief. Why is everyone so quick to cry "overpowered"? You do realize that it's perfectly okay for a class/specialization to perform well or better than others, right?

[Deleted]

Good grief. Why is everyone so quick to cry "overpowered"? You do realize that it's perfectly okay for a class/specialization to perform well or better than others, right?

within reason yes but ppl also have to factor in the RNG of the spec which frost has quite a lot of and other stuff like the type of fights as its quite logical that a spec that excells at ST and cleave in an instance filled with ST and cleave type fights will be good in that instance and when you then factor in the craptasticness of fire and arcane, then frost should be an extremely good spec.

[Pua]

What are you on about? When was the last time that was Frost was the premier Mage spec for a significant duration?

When was the last time it wasn't, at the very least, Gladiator-viable? Entire classes can go entire expansions without such a spec - Frost is always amongst the best. Always.

Working as intended.

lol frost has been too good for years? frost has consistently been the worst raiding in the game and the amount of things you wrote that was just flat out wrong is rather staggering.

Who cares?

If you want to raid, and rank extremely highly while eating Doritos with your good hand, play Arcane or Fire; one of them is always numero uno on almost all fights, and either (typically both) will be buffed if that isn't the case for any reason. If you play with both hands, and still rank poorly, falling asleep at your keyboard is the only explanation.

That's working as intended.

[MashTactics]

When was the last time it wasn't, at the very least, Gladiator-viable? Entire classes can go entire expansions without such a spec - Frost is always amongst the best. Always.

Working as intended.

I think the better question is, when was PvP last used as a valid unit of measurement in regards to class balance in this game?

Even the most grizzled of horse penis inspectors would find a harder time citing anything floppier than that argument.

[Pua]

I think the better question is, when was PvP last used as a valid unit of measurement in regards to class balance in this game?

It's the only unit of measurement that really matters. In the end, a player's performance while slaying dragons is more accurately related to how well they can follow the cues of a boss mod.

And I only know a couple of horse penis inspectors, neither of which are grizzled. It seems to be pretty rejuvenating work that keeps one young.

Your mileage may vary, but it's working as intended.

[Dizzeeyooo]

When was the last time it wasn't, at the very least, Gladiator-viable? Entire classes can go entire expansions without such a spec - Frost is always amongst the best. Always

its legion

every single spec in the game is gladiator viable if you are not retarded enough to struggle pressing your pruned 4 button damage rotation while kiting around a pillar

why are you even singling out frost mages in legion pvp when fire has been the overall better mage spec so far in this shitty expansion xD

It's the only unit of measurement that really matters

in previous expansions, maybe - right now? lolol legion pvp

[Deleted]

It's the only unit of measurement that really matters. In the end, a player's performance while slaying dragons is more accurately related to how well they can follow the cues of a boss mod.

And I only know a couple of horse penis inspectors, neither of which are grizzled. It seems to be pretty rejuvenating work that keeps one young.

Your mileage may vary, but it's working as intended.

So the "only unit of measurement that really matters" is a mini game? Because, that is what pvp is, a mini game in the world of warcraft..

[MashTactics]

It's the only unit of measurement that really matters. In the end, a player's performance while slaying dragons is more accurately related to how well they can follow the cues of a boss mod.

Well, knowing that this conjecture is all PvP-inspired certainly sheds a light on why you're so pissy about mages.

If my entire world view of World of Warcraft was based around its PvP, I daresay I wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

[Pua]

every single spec in the game is gladiator viable...

Yep, stopped reading.

So the "only unit of measurement that really matters" is a mini game? Because, that is what pvp is, a mini game in the world of warcraft..

More people take part in PvP than organised raiding. Your definition of "mini game" is pretty strange, to say the least.

Well, knowing that this conjecture is all PvP-inspired certainly sheds a light on why you're so pissy about mages.

There's nothing pissy about it, if my main struggles in PvP for a bit I'll just dust off my mage and break out the /lol macro for extra "fun" prior to slack-jawed kills that are largely gifted to me.

[Deleted]

Yep, stopped reading.



More people take part in PvP than organised raiding. Your definition of "mini game" is pretty strange, to say the least.



There's nothing pissy about it, if my main struggles in PvP for a bit I'll just dust off my mage and break out the /lol macro for extra "fun" prior to slack-jawed kills that are largely gifted to me.

In an MMO pvp is nothing more then a mini game, you thinking otherwise doesn't make any difference in that.

And clearly, something triggered you about mages, can't be that they are OP as they are not.

[MashTactics]

More people take part in PvP than organised raiding. Your definition of "mini game" is pretty strange, to say the least.

I would argue that there are two main categories of content in this game. PvP and PvE.

Raiding is just one part of PvE. You're forgetting World Quests, leveling, professions, 5 man/M+ content...

So, yes. PvP is a very tiny portion of the population when you take into consideration what is actually involved in the entirety of PvE. It also has very minimal impact on the game, and usually receives the least amount of attention from the developers. I mean, I assume you saw Ashran, right?

Calling it a minigame is a bit patronizing, but it's definitely not in the ballpark of actual PvE content.

[seniorproc]

No, in brf it was fire and arcane

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5 million? you just made that up. im 913 and ive never seen one higher than ~2.5-3

Same i 909 and according to skada my higest crits are 2,5million with 6 gloves stacks

[Pua]

I would argue that there are two main categories of content in this game. PvP and PvE.

Raiding is just one part of PvE. You're forgetting World Quests, leveling, professions, 5 man/M+ content...

So, yes. PvP is a very tiny portion of the population when you take into consideration what is actually involved in the entirety of PvE. It also has very minimal impact on the game, and usually receives the least amount of attention from the developers. I mean, I assume you saw Ashran, right?

Calling it a minigame is a bit patronizing, but it's definitely not in the ballpark of actual PvE content.

You'd be arguing right. But as a stand-alone feature at endgame, it's hard to argue that anything is individually more popular than battlegrounds.

Next to nobody is involved in organised raiding, next to nobody farms Mythic+ (and there's huge crossover in the population that does both), while World Quests and levelling are treated as a means to an end rather than an end in themselves. I did see Ashran, and citing a lack of development time is a criticism that can be levelled at the entire Warlords of Draenor "expansion"; it's not exclusive to Ashran.

It'd also be worth remembering that development attention is NOT the same as popularity. This design team is determined to build rock-hard raids that practically nobody gives a shit about - it's inversely proportional. As a result, that's not a strong argument for you to be making.

[rogoth]

It's the only unit of measurement that really matters. In the end, a player's performance while slaying dragons is more accurately related to how well they can follow the cues of a boss mod.

And I only know a couple of horse penis inspectors, neither of which are grizzled. It seems to be pretty rejuvenating work that keeps one young.

Your mileage may vary, but it's working as intended.

i'm sorry but for a lot of us over the years, and for those now, there are no boss mods when we see new bosses, and in fact the whole "boss mod" generation only really started in cataclysm when PTR testing really became a thing, prior to that any high end raiding guild had to just go in blind and figure it out as they went, i suggest you crawl back under the rock that spawned you because you have added nothing to this discussion other than show how much of an asshat you are, and thinking pvp matters in a game where pvp was a bolt on because it was popular at the time so blizz scrambled ot add it to a game that was never intended to have pvp, and why the game has never been close to balance, come on mate wake up and smell the coffee please i know and you know you are talking out of your arse.

[MashTactics]

Next to nobody is involved in organised raiding, next to nobody farms Mythic+

Is there any sort of citation for these suppositions? I mean, that's a pretty bold claim.

I did see Ashran, and citing a lack of development time is a criticism that can be levelled at the entire Warlords of Draenor "expansion"; it's not exclusive to Ashran.

You can look at any expansion. Compare PvE content added to PvP in *any* given expansion. Compare how many battlegrounds are added to each expansion, and then cross-reference that to how many 5 mans/WQs/raids/etc. are added. Hell, there are individual *patches* that add more PvE content than PvP will see in an entire expansion. Then you add that to the fact that despite the fact that the developers get one crucial PvP element to focus on... and it's arguably the worst piece of content ever added.

It'd also be worth remembering that development attention is NOT the same as popularity. This design team is determined to build rock-hard raids that practically nobody gives a shit about - it's inversely proportional. As a result, that's not a strong argument for you to be making.

No, but it IS a strong argument in regards to where the game is balanced. It's not balanced around a setting that the developers don't give the time of day, and as a result, arguments made towards balancing classes from a PvP standpoint are just silly.

[Pua]

i'm sorry but for a lot of us over the years, and for those now, there are no boss mods when we see new bosses, and in fact the whole "boss mod" generation only really started in cataclysm when PTR testing really became a thing, prior to that any high end raiding guild had to just go in blind and figure it out as they went...

Your linked progression tells me that you're talking utter bollocks. You're nowhere near well-enough progressed to be arguing that your guild doesn't use a boss mod, and likely always has.

As for the rest of your post, well, enjoy the infraction.

Is there any sort of citation for these suppositions? I mean, that's a pretty bold claim.

Just look at WoW Progress numbers for any given tier, and work out the percentage of players that organised raiding comprises. It's never been higher than around 10%, and that's usually when bosses are falling over after being looked at. Competitively speaking (Hard Mode/Heroic/Mythic), the number is invariably less than 3% of players.

People just don't do it, and for a whole slew of obvious reasons.

No, but it IS a strong argument in regards to where the game is balanced. It's not balanced around a setting that the developers don't give the time of day, and as a result, arguments made towards balancing classes from a PvP standpoint are just silly.

It'd only be a strong argument if you could link me one developer quote where they say "we don't give PvP the time of day", or even words to that effect.

Besides, I've only argued that PvP is where balance should be at its best. Lets face it, dragons don't care if they get nerfed or not and there's no traditionally competitive angle to PvE that anyone would watch (not that World of Warcraft's arena is especially good).

[Ipsissimus]

When was the last time it wasn't, at the very least, Gladiator-viable? Entire classes can go entire expansions without such a spec - Frost is always amongst the best. Always.

Working as intended.

I take it you failed to notice that the OP asked about Frost in PvE settings, specifying raiding in particular. If you have a need to vent about how stupendously powerful Frost Mages are in PvP you're welcome to open a thread on the Mage or PvP forum here, or go to AJ where I'm sure Elemental Shaman, Feral Druids, Hunters and the like are to this day circle-jerking about how overpowered Mages are and how playing Ele/Arms/HPala or Jungle Cleave is way more skillful.

edit: Oops, forgot LSD and LSD2 which are the epitome of skill.

But before you do, pray tell, which class is it that went on an entire expansion without a Gladiator viable spec, and what expansion was that in?
Not that PvP is even worth debating, as Dizzeeyo put it: LOLOL LEGION PVP. I'm just curious.

[rogoth]

Your linked progression tells me that you're talking utter bollocks. You're nowhere near well-enough progressed to be arguing that your guild doesn't use a boss mod, and likely always has.

As for the rest of your post, well, enjoy the infraction.

making assumptions leaves yourself open to being made an ass, and you have done so quite well with multiple posts, i was a hardcore raider for years pushing cutting edge content, just because i'm not anymore and no longer have the time or the energy anymore does not impact in anyway that i am correct about the portion you quoted, furthermore, your belief that pvp matters is beyond denial levels of stupid, the game mode was a bolt on back in classic, and then arena was an after thought in TBC, it has never been supported as a major game mode with the vast majority of resources going into raid and dungeon environments/bosses etc, so keep living in your little bubble and spouting your nonesense.

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I take it you failed to notice that the OP asked about Frost in PvE settings, specifying raiding in particular. If you have a need to vent about how stupendously powerful Frost Mages are in PvP you're welcome to open a thread on the Mage or PvP forum here, or go to AJ where I'm sure Elemental Shaman, Feral Druids, Hunters and the like are to this day circle-jerking about how overpowered Mages are and how playing Ele/Arms/HPala or Jungle Cleave is way more skillful.

edit: Oops, forgot LSD and LSD2 which are the epitome of skill.

But before you do, pray tell, which class is it that went on an entire expansion without a Gladiator viable spec, and what expansion was that in?
Not that PvP is even worth debating, as Dizzeeyo put it: LOLOL LEGION PVP. I'm just curious.

careful bro, you might get an infraction for calling him out on his utter deluded nonesense.

[Dizzeeyooo]

More people take part in PvP than organised raiding

less than 100k people in EU are participating in ranked pvp, and less than 80k people are participating in US ranked pvp - we know this from how the number of titles given out for legion season 2 has crashed vs legion season 1

how many people are taking part in organised raiding in each region?