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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    You act as if Obama was the first president or even politician to help the people that elected him.

    It's what Trump is doing literally right now.
    I never said he was the first (maybe you mixed up the posts and are replying to someone else?) I just said that if Trump cuts the corp tax rate to 15% but removes the "credits" and "exemptions" that some companies could actually pay more although the rate has been cut.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I feel like I read you say the opposite before.
    Of course you have, it's Orlong. He's always game for contradicting himself.

  3. #63
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Of course you have, it's Orlong. He's always game for contradicting himself.
    Nah, its just orlong, he is a silly cookie

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    What is wrong with a progressive rate?
    It complicates the code and I just don't think you need it if you do away with all the exemptions and breaks and just collect a flat rate from everyone over a certain rate.

    For example: Right now on 1 million dollars, facebook pays 7,000 taxes. At 15% (if there are no breaks or exemptions) they would pay 150,000. Look at that dramatic increase, on just a million dollars. Facebook made billions (or at least hundreds of millions last year). Google and Amazon paid a similar rate to facebook last year.

    If you just do away with all the "breaks," "exemptions" and "loopholes"- you really don't need a progressive rate.

  5. #65
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy1 View Post
    Makes sense you have a "Make America Great Again" icon. Firstly, you reject the idea of anyone besides millennials spending money on the daily for consumer products. This is absurd, why not extend your argument to cigarettes, other institutions of food and beverage production, alcoholic beverages, transportation, etc. Did you know if you did not own a car or buy gasoline you can save thousands of dollars? OH boy sign me up. Do you see the issue here? You have no real argument besides "don't spend money".
    Wrong. My argument is dont spend money that you dont NEED to, and save some for your golden years. (Im 44 and already have a 401K with $200K in it, and if I wasnt forced to contribute to the black hole known as Social Security, !d probably have closer to $500,000 in my retirement account). I also do not buy $6 coffees every morning, nor do I go to McDonalds every day for lunch because Im not too lazy to pack a sandwich and some chips.

    I also do not waste thousands of dollars on silly modifications to my car like a LOT of Millennials (stupid can of bees mufflers, asinine body trims, superfluous lighting, loud sound systems, etc...), nor do I need to have every new video game/system that comes out, see every new movie (except they usually steal them online), and party every weekend.

    BTW I also only make $50k a year

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I feel like I read you say the opposite before.
    Nope, but I did say lowering corporate taxes will free up more money to hire additional workers
    Last edited by Orlong; 2017-04-25 at 01:14 PM.

  6. #66
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Wrong.

    Nope, but I did say lowering corporate taxes will free up more money to hire additional workers
    No, I am pretty sure I read you say the opposite before.

  7. #67
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Now all he has to do is get corporations to actually pay their taxes.

    Good luck with that.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  8. #68
    Traditionally in the United States the tax rate issue is a mobius strip of lies.

    1. Politician A pledges to improve and modernize the tax system by hiking taxes on the rich and on corporations.
    2. Politician A wins and hikes the taxes -- but ALSO creates NEW loopholes for the rich and corporations to evade the tax.
    3. Politician B pledges to improve and modernize the tax system by closing loopholes.
    4. Politician B win and closes loopholes -- but ALSO cuts taxes on the rich and on corporations.

    Its a PERFECT system of corruption where elected officials play a shell game with the tax code while the wealthy never get a tax increase.

    Bill Clinton was version A. He raised taxes on the rich by capping deductions on corporate executive pay at $1 million in 1993, but ALSO created new loopholes where stock options and other forms of compensation was exempt. So of course the executives started taking lots of stock options as payment.

    Donald Trump is version B. He promises to close loopholes. But of course he will also cut taxes on the rich.

    They are just preying on the fact that you don't see the shell game by playing it out over the course of decades.

    You can vote democrat or republican. It doesn't matter. This isn't changing.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    So where do all workers sign up for 15% too?
    Corporations today pay less income tax than corporations 60 years ago. Then, corporations accounted for 39% of all income tax revenue; individuals supplied 61%. Currently the corporate share is below the 19% mark while the individual share rose to over 81%.
    Now it looks like that all income tax revenue will fall on the individual when tax deductions/concessions are applied...

    How the fuck did we get here?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...x-rates-237556

    so.. thoughts?
    personally, this reeks of trickle down... and that type of policy is proven not to work, so say welcome to a giant fiscal deficit fellas
    What was it before? A comparison would be helpful.

  11. #71
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...x-rates-237556

    so.. thoughts?
    personally, this reeks of trickle down... and that type of policy is proven not to work, so say welcome to a giant fiscal deficit fellas
    It is the same old trickle down / voodoo economics that has been proven not to work. It is magical libertarian thinking at its core, and it doesn't even work when you think about it.

    https://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-eve...mics-revisited

    As a result, Jencks regards the “rising tide” approach as rather dubious. “It’s like giving people aspirin when they have cancer,” he says. “It might make them feel a little better, but it’s not going to cure them.” Which brings us to that question once again: “What else can you offer?”
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ise-richest-85 (emphasis mine)

    It is not so much that the supply-side principle "if you build it, they will come" is no longer true. It is more that we appear to have passed a tipping point, where so much wealth has been concentrated at the top, they no longer need bother to "build" anything. In short, it has become more economically efficient to buy countries' economic policy than to create value in order to sell it on. If one can control government to favour the richest, while raising barriers for new entrants, thus increasing their share of the pie exponentially, what is the incentive to grow the pie?

    And why do the rich need even more tax breaks? As Warren Buffet so succinctly observed (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/op...ch.html?_r=0):
    Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.
    This is a tired argument that has long been debunked. Anyone who thinks those tax cuts will do anything other than put money in the pocket of the rich while continuing to hurt the rest of the country is simply delusional.

  12. #72


    And after tax write-offs corporations won't pay anything...

  13. #73
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Well Trump just blinked on demanding funding for the wall, so expect Trump to cave when it comes to tax changes.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    I never said he was the first (maybe you mixed up the posts and are replying to someone else?) I just said that if Trump cuts the corp tax rate to 15% but removes the "credits" and "exemptions" that some companies could actually pay more although the rate has been cut.
    Doubtful he will do that since his administration is using the line that the tax cuts will pay for themselves with economic growth. This tax cut will result in a deficit upward to 7 trillion dollars over the next decade, they are also proposing doing an import tax. So basically the middle class is going to bear the cost of this tax cut but even with an import tax it would only raise 1 trillion dollars.

  15. #75
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    It complicates the code and I just don't think you need it if you do away with all the exemptions and breaks and just collect a flat rate from everyone over a certain rate.

    For example: Right now on 1 million dollars, facebook pays 7,000 taxes. At 15% (if there are no breaks or exemptions) they would pay 150,000. Look at that dramatic increase, on just a million dollars. Facebook made billions (or at least hundreds of millions last year). Google and Amazon paid a similar rate to facebook last year.

    If you just do away with all the "breaks," "exemptions" and "loopholes"- you really don't need a progressive rate.
    But all the breaks.. etc... have nothing to do with a progressive tax rate.

  16. #76
    15% tax rate with loopholes. Enjoy more of the tax burden Joe Tax Payer. I never understand why people think tax cuts lead to jobs. Small businesses, I understand. Large corporations make a shit ton money now. If this was the case Apple or any large corporation should employ half of the people in the U.S.

    The general rule is you don't hire people just to hire people. You hire to increase your revenue and hopefully profits along with R&D people. A company flush with cash also generally does not give their employees a wage increase just for the hell of it. We so much evidence of the past 30 years of workers wages stagnant while corporations and CEO"s profits increase.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Doubtful he will do that since his administration is using the line that the tax cuts will pay for themselves with economic growth. This tax cut will result in a deficit upward to 7 trillion dollars over the next decade, they are also proposing doing an import tax. So basically the middle class is going to bear the cost of this tax cut but even with an import tax it would only raise 1 trillion dollars.
    I doubt that there will be a middle class in the next decade.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    15% tax rate with loopholes. Enjoy more of the tax burden Joe Tax Payer. I never understand why people think tax cuts lead to jobs. Small businesses, I understand. Large corporations make a shit ton money now. If this was the case Apple or any large corporation should employ half of the people in the U.S.

    The general rule is you don't hire people just to hire people. You hire to increase your revenue and hopefully profits along with R&D people. A company flush with cash also generally does not give their employees a wage increase just for the hell of it. We so much evidence of the past 30 years of workers wages stagnant while corporations and CEO"s profits increase.
    People fail to understand that job's creation is not a function of wealth, but of demand. For example, if my company makes a fuckton of money, but i know that the demand of my product wont go up in the foreseeable future, i wont hire more people, because i may make less money if i flood the market with said good.
    Last edited by Thepersona; 2017-04-25 at 02:00 PM.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  19. #79
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    So let's get this straight. Huge increase in military spending. $30 billion wall. $1 trillion infrastructure. Big tax cuts for individuals and for businesses. No changes to entitlements?

    It's like this guy gets his policy from the back of a cereal box.
    Eat yo vegetables

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Doubtful he will do that since his administration is using the line that the tax cuts will pay for themselves with economic growth. This tax cut will result in a deficit upward to 7 trillion dollars over the next decade, they are also proposing doing an import tax. So basically the middle class is going to bear the cost of this tax cut but even with an import tax it would only raise 1 trillion dollars.
    There's a middle class left? Seemed decimated to me.

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