[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Katchii]

Well it started to be a problem with NIN mostly because of mudras. I get the timing, using 3 abilities off global cd and then quickly followed by 4th. I dont have lags (40ms i guess is not a lag) but even then there is simply no room for error or you rotation and timing suffer. Often i was not able to watch battleground and telegraphed attacks because of my struggle with UI.

NIN also got branching rotation which first attack unlocking 2 more, then two more. So it is 5 button main combo which is priority system (2 dots and debuff). The only possible solution i can think off is to merge it to 3 combo without branching and then MAYBE merge it into one button combo (because there is no reason to use non comboed move).

- - - Updated - - -



Playing with mouse+keyboard. Maybe ill try xbox gamepad.

And you touched the most lazy design in history. You have problems with abilities? Well buy overpriced gaming hardware ofc. I really hate this kind of game design and this is discourage me to buy it (it is not toward you, i apreciate that you try to suggest solutions ). I simply cant afford buying costly mouse to play game. It is easier to drop a game when there is so much great games in the market.

Not sure what you're getting at. Games like this existed before the peripherals, so it's not like the developers are developing these games with these specific peripherals in mind and you CAN perform without them, they just make it easier and more ergonomic. I played without them for years just fine, however I developed ergonomic injuries due to my hand positions and constant movements and the peripherals fixed that. THAT's why I got the mouse and gamepad, to address my ergonomic issues, not make gaming easier....that was a bonus.

Just wanted to put that out there. I hope the controller works for you as this is a great game IMO. If not, I agree with you, there are a ton of great games on the market and available.

[Melsiren]

Doubt it.
Every class having the same basic tools makes balancing them a lot easier for SE.

A true statement.

[MrTharne]

Most of the 'increase damage by x for y seconds' abilities such as Heavy Thrust could be outright removed with the damage just baked into the jobs or other damaging skills and not a single thing of value would be lost as playing 'watch the timers' isn't very exciting gameplay especially with the non moddable UI the game has. And for gods sake they need to combine some of the cooldowns since there's no reason to have 4 small DPS increase cooldowns instead of just 2 powerful ones besides just having more buttons.

MNKS has Touch of Death and Demolish. (Base class abilities)

NIN has Mutilate, and Shadow Fang. (Base class abilities also.)

DRG has Phlebotomize, and Chaos Thrust. (Yet again, base class abilities)

It's a clear problem, which I think will be fixed, or the very least adressed with the "Combat revamp." One thing to keep in mind though, they aim to have the same amount of abilities at 70 that we currently have at 60.

I'm gonna use the Dragoon here :

-About (DPS) Cooldowns : Life Surge, Blood For Blood, Power Surge, Battle Litany, Blood of the Dragon, (cross-class) Internal Release.
You can't merge B4B and Internal Release yet since IR is from Pugi, the cross-roles system might adress that but what are they gonna do about traits that enhanced B4B or IR and since they don't have the same CD nor duration they need to make a lot of balancing.
I'm pretty sure they won't merge something with Battle Litany.
Life Surge and Power Surge, again not the same CD and merging the two would limit the window in which you can use it since you want to use Power Surge with Jump and Life Surge for Full/Wheeling Thrust or Fang and Claw.
To end with Blood of the Dragon, pretty important to the rotation that it stays on a dedicated keybind for itself.
So you could pruned one DPS Cooldowns (still need to see how they could do it since...Traits)

-About Heavy Thrust and DoTs with "the same amount of abilities from 60 to 70" :
If they cut one DoT and Heavy Thrust...but still need to have the same amount of abilities, what would be this abilities without making them either useless (except if it's a 5th part to our 4th part Combo...yeah right and I don't see people using an isolated move like Feint without Slow but more powerful(?) just for giggles, better keep my Buff and DoT) or completely spammable since you can't have a strong potency skill outside a combo without a CD that would defeat the purpose of combo.

[Aliven]

Not sure what you're getting at. Games like this existed before the peripherals, so it's not like the developers are developing these games with these specific peripherals in mind and you CAN perform without them, they just make it easier and more ergonomic. I played without them for years just fine, however I developed ergonomic injuries due to my hand positions and constant movements and the peripherals fixed that. THAT's why I got the mouse and gamepad, to address my ergonomic issues, not make gaming easier....that was a bonus.

Just wanted to put that out there. I hope the controller works for you as this is a great game IMO. If not, I agree with you, there are a ton of great games on the market and available.

Having massive button bloat is complexity for the sake of complexity. And those gaming hardware make thing a lot easier.

But so far, on lvl 42 machinist i dont have those issues. Mostly i get situational skills but lets see how it unfolds.

- - - Updated - - -

Another question - BLM is a job with the least amount of button to press right? Asking if Machinist turn out to be not my style.

[Anzaman]

Presenting the FFXIV and Amazon.com® Free DLC Giveaway!


FINAL FANTASY XIV and Amazon.com® are partnering to offer a unique opportunity for North American FINAL FANTASY XIV players! Qualifying orders of $19.99 or more on video games (purchase or pre-order) on Amazon.com will earn you an Amazon.com promotional code that, when redeemed, will grant you three Eastern-themed in-game items!

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...120b58004694f1

New Optional Items Available!


http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...720ab3380d0186

[8bithamster]

and ofcourse.. NA only darn my europeness!

[Anzaman]

and ofcourse.. NA only darn my europeness!

I'm expecting another awful deal like last time.

Our FC leader ended up getting magazines for half of the FC - as she worked in shop that sold them.

[Gutler]

welp they finally did it after years of begging i can now own the moogle suit.

[dope_danny]

The main issue with FF14 is that it feels like they think jobs need to meet some quota in the number of skills. This becomes most apparent when looking at things like every melee needing to have a bleed and many cooldowns being similar between jobs. It's ok if one job has 15 buttons and another has 18 but they seem to disagree with that. WoW's skills are lessened but rotations are quite varied between specs and many still have plenty of meaningful buttons without much similarity between them. In general the button bloat of FF14 actually makes many jobs play more similar (an issue WoW had before they pruned away things like half the classes having an execute). Most of the 'increase damage by x for y seconds' abilities such as Heavy Thrust could be outright removed with the damage just baked into the jobs or other damaging skills and not a single thing of value would be lost as playing 'watch the timers' isn't very exciting gameplay especially with the non moddable UI the game has. And for gods sake they need to combine some of the cooldowns since there's no reason to have 4 small DPS increase cooldowns instead of just 2 powerful ones besides just having more buttons.

I wouldnt be surprised if part of it is wanting to avoid some idea of 'this is the job you play the rest are garbage'. God knows PLD is already at that point in some regards where you play DRK or WAR and PLD is just kind of forgotten outside specific scenarios. Personally i hope they mix it up. The biggest problem for me now is there are a lot of skills across jobs that are effectively the same thing with a different name and not enough stuff that makes some jobs do better in some fights rather than just some jobs have different group wide abilities. Thats a problem too many 'holy trinity' based games do.

[Gutler]

guess its also time to get another PSN card from amazon to get the DLC stuff.

[Aruhen]

Flying Cumulus Mount

....uh am I missing some sort of historical reference here?

How disappointing that it's only in the US even though its "NA". I guess I could order from .com instead of .ca but then I have to pay the difference and that tends to be more expensive than buying it on .ca.

[Faroth]

Flying Cumulus Mount

....uh am I missing some sort of historical reference here?

How disappointing that it's only in the US even though its "NA". I guess I could order from .com instead of .ca but then I have to pay the difference and that tends to be more expensive than buying it on .ca.

I believe it's part of Chinese legend along with the Monkey King (which the Dragoon staff is based on his weapon).

[Graeham]

Here's hoping Europe isn't screwed over yet again...

[Katchii]

Having massive button bloat is complexity for the sake of complexity. And those gaming hardware make thing a lot easier.

But so far, on lvl 42 machinist i dont have those issues. Mostly i get situational skills but lets see how it unfolds.

- - - Updated - - -

Another question - BLM is a job with the least amount of button to press right? Asking if Machinist turn out to be not my style.

Hard to say honestly. In my experience, at max level, yes there's a little less buttons to press, but if you plan on doing roulettes that can put you in content from level 16 to level 60, your bar will be filled to the brim. IMO BLM is the most annoying class to do roulettes with because of how profoundly the rotation and abilities used changes depending on what level you are so unless you want to spend 2-3 minutes (at least) every time you sync to rearrange your bars, they'll be filled up.

Of the jobs I've played more, Bard and Machinist are the ones with the least amount of button bloat though Summoner doesn't feel bad either. That said, if you enjoy playing a class, even if it has button bloat you don't really notice it since you're having fun with it. The one class that I feel it the most is Warrior because it has SO MANY abilities and cooldowns and combos...if you don't play it often and know the stuff frontwards and backwards it's rough to get a handle on but when I was "maining" it when leveling it exclusively it felt great but I can't go back to it on a whim because it's so complex.

As to the button bloat and complexity, I'm fairly sure that SQEX didn't purposely design it to be this way just for the sake of complexity as they've acknowledged that it's a problem. Every MMO with a system like FFXIV has this problem over time as the level cap increases and you add new abilities, and it needs to be addressed when it crops up but to say that it's purposeful to have bloat for the sake of complexity is stretching it a little I think.

[Usagi Senshi]

*orders a $20 Nintendo eshop card along with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe*

[Kazgrel]

Having massive button bloat is complexity for the sake of complexity. And those gaming hardware make thing a lot easier.

But so far, on lvl 42 machinist i dont have those issues. Mostly i get situational skills but lets see how it unfolds.

- - - Updated - - -

Another question - BLM is a job with the least amount of button to press right? Asking if Machinist turn out to be not my style.

Going to claim a level of bias here in that I find MCH to be one of the worst offenders of button bloat and piano concert keyboard play to execute properly, but I've also spent dick all amount of time playing it (with majority of time being in PotD), so I also believe I'm shit tier when it comes to playing it. BLM has fewer buttons required to pull off the basics; I'd lump SMN in as a reasonable in-between of BLM and MCH in terms of how many buttons to push (I've somehow gotten the basics of the SMN opener down to muscle memory at this point even though it's like 5-6 oGCDs in a row, or so it seems).

[Wrecktangle]

Doubt it.
Every class having the same basic tools makes balancing them a lot easier for SE.

While this statement is true, I don't like it.

With regards to DoT's. That's not something every class needs to have 2 of. That's not a tool IMO. A tool would be a form of utility; something like all classes having a stun. Same thing with regards to the damage up maintenance buff. Not every class needs one of them. That's not a tool.

Personally I don't mind a little homogenization as long as the aesthetics are notably different.

Most of the 'increase damage by x for y seconds' abilities such as Heavy Thrust could be outright removed with the damage just baked into the jobs or other damaging skills and not a single thing of value would be lost as playing 'watch the timers' isn't very exciting gameplay especially with the non moddable UI the game has. And for gods sake they need to combine some of the cooldowns since there's no reason to have 4 small DPS increase cooldowns instead of just 2 powerful ones besides just having more buttons.

Agreed. I have been saying this for a while.

With that said, it's mostly irrelevant since I'm pretty sure the poster mentioned quit wow long before WoD, though I'm only making assumptions.

From what I've noticed, a lot of the similarities between the Jobs are the base class abilities, while the 30+ Job quest abilities tend to be more unique.

Actually all the melee right now have two dots.

MNKS has Touch of Death and Demolish. (Base class abilities)

NIN has Mutilate, and Shadow Fang. (Base class abilities also.)

DRG has Phlebotomize, and Chaos Thrust. (Yet again, base class abilities)

It's a clear problem, which I think will be fixed, or the very least adressed with the "Combat revamp." One thing to keep in mind though, they aim to have the same amount of abilities at 70 that we currently have at 60.

I know, he has me on ignore so I tend to call him out when I get a chance. He may not know that he's a biased goober, but I'll do what I can to make sure others see it.

Good analysis on the base abilities/DoTs. I long suspected this to be the case, but never did the analysis. Definitely an area for improvement.

I'm gonna use the Dragoon here :

-About (DPS) Cooldowns : Life Surge, Blood For Blood, Power Surge, Battle Litany, Blood of the Dragon, (cross-class) Internal Release.
You can't merge B4B and Internal Release yet since IR is from Pugi, the cross-roles system might adress that but what are they gonna do about traits that enhanced B4B or IR and since they don't have the same CD nor duration they need to make a lot of balancing.
I'm pretty sure they won't merge something with Battle Litany.
Life Surge and Power Surge, again not the same CD and merging the two would limit the window in which you can use it since you want to use Power Surge with Jump and Life Surge for Full/Wheeling Thrust or Fang and Claw.
To end with Blood of the Dragon, pretty important to the rotation that it stays on a dedicated keybind for itself.
So you could pruned one DPS Cooldowns (still need to see how they could do it since...Traits)

As a DRG main here are the problems as I see them:

Life Surge is only ever used on 1 button. Therefore there is no choice, therefore it isn't terribly interesting. It's nice that it is useful (to guarantee burst damage), but there's definitely room for improvement to make this more impactful/important baked into other ability (to organically deliver burst on demand).

Power Surge is dumb. You just use it again on Jump and nothing else so there's no choice. You could bake this effect into almost anything else and it would be fine. I.e. Successfully casting Chaos Thrust combo grants Power Surge increasing the damage of your next Jump category skill by x%. This solution isn't terribly good, but you can build things organically rather than via an unnecessary button press.

Battle Litany is fine, It's not my favorite (boring, but it's fine).

Internal Release should die. Useless.

B4B should honestly die. Dmg up effect should be baking into other cooldowns/base damage.

Blood of the Dragon is the example of a good DPS cooldown. I covered this earlier in this thread, but it's fun to press, adds abilities you didn't have access to before, grants damage bonuses, and is aesthetically pleasing/unique.

As far as traits go, they're pretty lackluster at the moment. Just useless passives that could just be the base effects. I'd argue that traits should do more exciting things.

-About Heavy Thrust and DoTs with "the same amount of abilities from 60 to 70" :
If they cut one DoT and Heavy Thrust...but still need to have the same amount of abilities, what would be this abilities without making them either useless (except if it's a 5th part to our 4th part Combo...yeah right and I don't see people using an isolated move like Feint without Slow but more powerful(?) just for giggles, better keep my Buff and DoT) or completely spammable since you can't have a strong potency skill outside a combo without a CD that would defeat the purpose of combo.

This is a good point. If the do streamline the ability count, I'm just not sure how they're going to add so many new abilities. Unless that means they're going to go the super safe route, which isn't good IMO.

I mean If I said I wanted to prune Tempered Will from Paladins, what do you think @dope_danny and other biased fanboys would say to me?

"You just want FF14 to be WoW by gutting all utility even if its a button I never push, or that less than 4% of all content would even benefit having the skill."

I suggested a solution earlier. Make Sheltron have the Tempered Will effect. Now that ability has some additional niche use, retains its original purpose, and is slightly stronger, and I cleaned up a free button. You could even take this type of design paradigm one step further by building it out as a trait. Have traits unlock (I would personally make it content participation based, not level based to add some horizontal progression) and empower existing skills by adding new effects or replacing older weaker effects.

As to the button bloat and complexity, I'm fairly sure that SQEX didn't purposely design it to be this way just for the sake of complexity as they've acknowledged that it's a problem. Every MMO with a system like FFXIV has this problem over time as the level cap increases and you add new abilities, and it needs to be addressed when it crops up but to say that it's purposeful to have bloat for the sake of complexity is stretching it a little I think.

I honestly don't think it's purposeful. I think they're just afraid to take risks on the combat system. IMO of course.

[dope_danny]

Flying Cumulus Mount

....uh am I missing some sort of historical reference here?

How disappointing that it's only in the US even though its "NA". I guess I could order from .com instead of .ca but then I have to pay the difference and that tends to be more expensive than buying it on .ca.

Monkey king, journey to west, flying nimbus in dragonball and so on.

[MrTharne]

I want this Sun Wukong Glamour on my Dragoon...why you do this SE ? why can't EU have nice things too ?

[Anzaman]

I want this Sun Wukong Glamour on my Dragoon...why you do this SE ? why can't EU have nice things too ?

Don't worry, soon we can collect 3 extremely rare magazines that aren't even available in your country.