Legendary changes

[Deleted]

I know theres been a million threads about how stupid the legendary system is, and that 95% of the mmo player base (and 100% of the player base I've ever talked to in game) hates it passionately, so going forward on the assumption that everybody agrees its pretty stupid, why hasn't blizzard made any changes?

You create a strawman argument and base your discussion on that. That's pretty stupid.

[Deleted]

^ pretty much this, if you don't have one or more of your BiS ones by now, you didn't grind enough to deserve them.

lol
I have one character with all but the 2 bis legendaries. fml

[Killface1]

Yeah its pretty possible my assumptions are wrong. I'm drawing on anecdotal evidence of the couple hundred players I know and have talked about it with and seen talking about it in game and on MMO champ. To date this thread and people saying my assumptions are wrong and that blizzard made the appropriate changes are the first times I've seen people actually seem positive and appreciative of the current system. Its a large enough sample size to be statistically relevant, but a small enough one with shady enough sampling to be off by quite a bit.

At any rate, to the fpeople telling me how wrong I was and that blizzard made changes (I know, but they didn't fundamentally alter the system) and that they like it, can you tell me, what exactly do you like about it? Do you think it is better than some of the alternatives? How come? What do you think the design goals behind this are? What benefits does it bring to blizzard to design the game like this?

Again, small sample size, but do you know anybody who has kept playing because they got a shitty legendary and now they're more determined than ever to get a good one? I don't, but I sure know 4-5 people who got 2 shitty leggos in a row back when they were more imbalanced and said "fuckit, i'm out" and quit.

If its just a carrot on a stick design goal, why not lower the rng drop rate significantly, and make an obtainable mat that will guarantee one after a ton of work? Say daily cap on how much you can get of this mat, takes 2 months to farm? That'd probably take just as long to get the ones you want, but then at least you feel like your game time has purpose and value, instead of finding yourself in a situation where you get your classes personal healing legendary and just want to say "fuckit" and leave because you just wasted two months of building up bad luck protection? Anyway, would love to hear more about why people like the system, and also hear more about what they think works well about it.

[bufferunderrun]

I know theres been a million threads about how stupid the legendary system is, and that 95% of the mmo player base (and 100% of the player base I've ever talked to in game) hates it passionately, so going forward on the assumption that everybody agrees its pretty stupid, why hasn't blizzard made any changes?

Because it sure seems like there are a lot of changes they could make that would reduce peoples hatred and make tuning a lot easier.

Things like buffing the drop rate significantly, so that people aren't forced into rolling for one loot spec at all times, adding in a currency or a path to creating the ones you want (get lucky and maybe you can have this leggo a month before everybody else, otherwise you have to gather mats for a month before you can make whatever one you want), doing things like allowing people to DE two of them to craft a different one, getting rid of them entirely...

Seems like there are a lot of options that could dramatically improve them and make people excited about them. I know when I get a good one my reaction isn't "I'm excited woo!" its "whew, I avoided a shitter leggo and I can try and be competitive."

Any guesses as to why Blizzard thinks this system is good? I'm not one of the mmochamp kids who goes "blahblah Blizzard is retarded and they're so stupid and they don't listen to their playerbase" cause I think in general they're pretty on the ball, but they've gotta have a reason for sticking to their guns on a system that seems universally reviled with a lot of easy and beneficial fixes within their grasp right? Any guesses as to why they're taking the path they're taking?

because is a system that glue many peoples to the game, many cap their weekly M+, do random hero every day, keep doing all emissaries even after being exalted, do all the raids available including lfr just to increase the chance of getting a legs.

[barackohmama]

Drop rate has already been increased/corrected several times. Bad luck protection is spec specific now. Legendaries have been streamlined to pretty much be equal on single target while still keeping their niche. There are like no bad legendaries anymore and certainly there are no legendaries that provide 20% dmg increase that some did in the past. What more do you want? Increase the droprate even further the excitement getting one would be undermined.

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or you can be very unlucky like people with 8 legs still missing their 2bis

Well then good for them they have their 2 bis to look forward to next.

[Killface1]

because is a system that glue many peoples to the game, many cap their weekly M+, do random hero every day, keep doing all emissaries even after being exalted, do all the raids available including lfr just to increase the chance of getting a legs.

So you wouldn't be opposed to any change that has you doing the exact same things, but instead of "increasing the chance" its a "has a quantifiable end in sight that is a ways off?

People keep saying things have been "corrected" what does that mean? Genuine question. Correct implies that the system is working perfectly right now. As somebody who recently got a shitty legendary, I can assure you that if the design goal is to make your players excited about getting a legendary (blizzard devs), than that design goal is not working correctly right now.

As far as disparity, its true that you dont have "20% gain vs shitty stat stick" like you did at the start, but for every class you still have some legendaries that perform VERY significantly better than others, and the margin between them on different fights is enormous. I shouldn't have to explain that because it should just be an agreed upon fact, but if they were even than you wouldn't go to WCL and see every parse within the top 1000 with the exact same two legendaries.

More personal anecdotal evidence, I have 70 days played on my character, thousands of mythic raids, mythic +, I've done about 75-80% of my emmissary quests, and I have 9/11 of my dps spec legendaries, which means that I have some of the universal legendaries that are cross spec, which means that I dont have offspec bad luck protection. Moral is, I play a lot and have been unable to obtain the ones I actually give a shit about. The legendary system is NOT equal right now, and while its miles better than it used to be, a plate wearer is gonna be real bummed if they get the boots vs something thats actually good. There are definitely bad legendaries that provide significantly less benefit in single target situations and are even worse in AoE situations.

[Jaylock]

I don't think it's stupid. I like it. Everyone i know likes it more than they hate it.

Do you know what an echo chamber is? It's how you come to think that '100%' of people share the view you do.

I'd say in fact that probably 75-80% of all players actually LIKE the legendary system (myself included).

Why people think more people hate it is because of what you just said, the echochamber they create for themselves on this site and other sites.

The majority of players like the system. Plain and simple.

[bufferunderrun]

So you wouldn't be opposed to any change that has you doing the exact same things, but instead of "increasing the chance" its a "has a quantifiable end in sight that is a ways off?

People keep saying things have been "corrected" what does that mean? Genuine question. Correct implies that the system is working perfectly right now. As somebody who recently got a shitty legendary, I can assure you that if the design goal is to make your players excited about getting a legendary (blizzard devs), than that design goal is not working correctly right now.

As far as disparity, its true that you dont have "20% gain vs shitty stat stick" like you did at the start, but for every class you still have some legendaries that perform VERY significantly better than others, and the margin between them on different fights is enormous. I shouldn't have to explain that because it should just be an agreed upon fact, but if they were even than you wouldn't go to WCL and see every parse within the top 1000 with the exact same two legendaries.

More personal anecdotal evidence, I have 70 days played on my character, thousands of mythic raids, mythic +, I've done about 75-80% of my emmissary quests, and I have 9/11 of my dps spec legendaries, which means that I have some of the universal legendaries that are cross spec, which means that I dont have offspec bad luck protection. Moral is, I play a lot and have been unable to obtain the ones I actually give a shit about. The legendary system is NOT equal right now, and while its miles better than it used to be, a plate wearer is gonna be real bummed if they get the boots vs something thats actually good. There are definitely bad legendaries that provide significantly less benefit in single target situations and are even worse in AoE situations.

honestly i don't really care i don't do any mythic at all and only run lfr, now that i've finished the illidan 40 fragment quest i won't even enter an heroic dungeon anymore, i don't feel any pressure to farm for legs or for ap so i'm absolutely unconcerned about what blizzard do.

What i know is that system like the ap one is just a variant of the usual gear treadmill, aside the pr bullshit blizzard say on forum or twitter, it's designed to glue peoples in beyond their normal gear acquisition and to keep activity relevant beyond their natural expiration date.

Peoples are still doing the emissaries, because of the mounts? No they are doing it for the AP and for the high chance of getting a legs from the bag through they are long exalted, without those system 90%+ players would have done like me, ignore emissaries once exalted.

And yes i'm pretty sure that like in diablo shitty legs are more likely to drop than the good one, but even that is in prospective some peoples who don't give a fuck about min maxing will be happy even to get the shittiest leg, just because for what they are doing in game they probably will never more than 1 or 2 let alone see all of them.

So looking at different playstile the system work as intended, keep hardcores peoples glued farming old shit and made casual happy when they receive the 1 or 2 legs during the entire xpack, you need to just chill down and accept what you get or keep farming.

[Meiffert]

I know theres been a million threads about how stupid the legendary system is, and that 95% of the mmo player base (and 100% of the player base I've ever talked to in game) hates it passionately, so going forward on the assumption that everybody agrees its pretty stupid, why hasn't blizzard made any changes?

If there was a button that would instantly give you all classes at level 110 with full BiS gear and all competed achievements, 95 % of the players would click that button in a heartbeat.

That doesn't mean such a button is a good idea.

I'm not saying whether your overall point is right or wrong, but "the players hate this" is not a good argument. Most players have no idea what they want.

[XDurionX]

They HAVE made changes. People just keep crying no matter what. There will always be an objectively "best" legendary and people will continue to whine when they haven't got it yet.

If its just a carrot on a stick design goal, why not lower the rng drop rate significantly, and make an obtainable mat that will guarantee one after a ton of work? Say daily cap on how much you can get of this mat, takes 2 months to farm? That'd probably take just as long to get the ones you want, but then at least you feel like your game time has purpose and value, instead of finding yourself in a situation where you get your classes personal healing legendary and just want to say "fuckit" and leave because you just wasted two months of building up bad luck protection? Anyway, would love to hear more about why people like the system, and also hear more about what they think works well about it.

Where were you in MoP and WoD? Don't you member? I member.

[Sarevokcz]

This may be true for some, but the shoe definitely doesn't fit for all. BiS Legendaries are 100% absolute upgrades over other Legendaries or epics and it's indisputable. Hence the term, best in slot. For example, if I had Legendary bracers or belt, it would be an upgrade over my nerfed leggo helm or the inferior pieces of gear sitting in those bis items' place. Not opinion. Fact. Your point is only half relevant and you're more so seeming to be trolling.



That poster was likely hoping you'd connect the dots, as was I. Sure, technically days played means nothing. But if you make the assumption that during those days played, that player was running content (just about ANY level appropriate content in this xpac rewards leggos) then yes, it is telling. If he were to say, "I've played this many days but usually afk for 6 hours a day or run laps around my class hall", then sure, it wouldn't be telling.

Why is it starting to seem like anyone who supports this Legendary model lucked out and got their shit early in the xpac, and now they just nitpick and troll the people who are less fortunate than them? That MMO community, though.

days /played mean nothing at this point. you could have 40 days played at the start of the expasnion, where legendaries didnt drop almost at all and 5 days since 7.2, then obviously you arent getting 8+ legs, if you didnt play much after the changes were made

and they somewhat streamlined dps legendaries anyway, for most classes "2 BiS" are damn close to the rest of them.

yeah, it sucks not getting them and it would be better, if they were all closer in performance and if we could target specific slot, but the complaining about underperforming because "I have 2 good legs, but not the BiS BiS ones" is getting old. Chances are if youre underperforming, its not because legs, Our warrior thought hes a God or smth, but constantly complained how he "didnt have high DoS to perform" guess what, he got 920 out of heroic guldan... and hes still doing trash damage, most people wouldnt get the mileage out of the legs anyway meanwhile personal performance is more than ever decided by RNG gods

[satimy]

Only 5 where you can only equip 2 = 3 at the bags at all times. Yes blizzard sucks. We need bigger bags.

I bet if they put them all up in a shop you would still complain its a stiff price to pay for vendored legendaries.

P.S. Thats why blizzard sticks to their guns OP. Because if you cave in to what you read in forums you will just stop playing delete game and forget it ever existed.

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Whats not to like? I play my new alt do 4 emmissary quests (16 dailies) and its almost guaranteed that I ll get a legendary. Soon enough if you play the game you have more than you can use. With the small "problem" of "bad" legendaries (in reality there are no actual bad legendaries) everyone ends up having what they need.

I'm not sure what kind of player you are, but anyone that wants to raid at a competitive level needs good legendaries to not be a burden

[Thelxi]

it probably works as a carrot on a stick to keep people addicted. just because people dislike something doesn't mean that they are not addicted to it.

Exactly. It is the frustrating part of the legendary system that keeps people engaged. Working as intended. I would not hold my breath for Blizzard changing much. Giving us craftable legendaries is as far as they will compromise.

[Civil]

I think the majority of players like the idea of legendary items, it's the implementation that has them stirred up. There should have never been both utility and productivity (DPS) affixes. All utility would be easier to balance and makes the most sense.

[Deleted]

As soon as i got BiS i stopped playing so much. So the carrot is definitely enticing. Now i'm finding it hard to bring myself to log in. So casually playing HS until ToS.

[Deleted]

This incessant whining about Legendaries is gettting soooo freaking old... It was not great in the beginning. By now, legendaries are mostly rather close together and we're talking 20-40k dps differences on a 800-1M dps basis. It's just the horribly entitled generation these days that has this opinion of "I only got a BMW as a gift, but my neighbour got a Porsche. This is unfair, I also demand to get a Porsche".

Or, even worse:
"My neighbour who works 80 hours a week has more cars than I do. That's so unfair. Even though I only work 1 hour a week, I want - nay deserve - the same.

Seriously, after the latest changes, if you do the content that Blizz wants you to do (LFR, a bit m+, Emissary, Rep chests, building contributions, normal/hero/mythic raids), then you get an average of a leggy every 1-2 weeks. If you only have one spec, that should give you all that exist before next raid. Even if you want to do it for 2 specs, you have a chance to get them before.

[iNUKE]

I got my 2 pieces Ret pally, belt and cloak in 4 hours of mythic dungeons.

Then got aggramar boots in the next few days after that.

You were saying about low drop rate?

[Cazz17]

I got my 2 pieces Ret pally, belt and cloak in 4 hours of mythic dungeons.

Then got aggramar boots in the next few days after that.

You were saying about low drop rate?

Nothing special, first 2 legendaries are very quick and the new spec specific bad luck protection probably helped.

[Tradu]

I'd say in fact that probably 75-80% of all players actually LIKE the legendary system (myself included).

Why people think more people hate it is because of what you just said, the echochamber they create for themselves on this site and other sites.

The majority of players like the system. Plain and simple.

And that majority would still like it if it was changed in a way that would make it less of a problem for those who hate it.

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Only 5 where you can only equip 2 = 3 at the bags at all times. Yes blizzard sucks. We need bigger bags.

I bet if they put them all up in a shop you would still complain its a stiff price to pay for vendored legendaries.

P.S. Thats why blizzard sticks to their guns OP. Because if you cave in to what you read in forums you will just stop playing delete game and forget it ever existed.

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Whats not to like? I play my new alt do 4 emmissary quests (16 dailies) and its almost guaranteed that I ll get a legendary. Soon enough if you play the game you have more than you can use. With the small "problem" of "bad" legendaries (in reality there are no actual bad legendaries) everyone ends up having what they need.

There's tons of bad legendaries(because what matters is their relative strength), and you're definitely not "almost guaranteed" a legendary within 4 emissaries(I'd know, I have 22 110s). That said, the situation has definitely improved in 7.2(mostly because you get like a legendary every 1-2 weeks if you do all your weekly lockouts, instead of going months without one before)

[Eazy]

What % of wow is "competitive level" raiders in the sense that it would matter what legendaries they get due to #1 world race? Lets give you help by saying 10% of all wow players is #1 world race raiders. Well now explain to me how the hell there is so much QQ posting about legendaries? Is it the vocal 10% minority? Or is it just entitled people who think the worst problem in life is getting a sephuz?

As for the people like you who think of others around them as "burden" if not in proper legendaries take a good hard look in the mirror mate its all on you for whatever fucks wow gameplay. You and your dps charts you and your warcraft logs you and your stat weights busting people's balls day in day out in a game because "omg you have 0.0001% less mastery and that will result in an overall raid dps loss of 0.6% over the course of the expansion thus meaning 12.3 min less time for me to spend watching tv".

You are not sure what kind of player I am but I sure know what kind you are.

I think that's not the problem. The problem is that people are gaining big advantage for nothing. People shouldn't get BIS items just because RNGesus smiled upon them(do not mix it with the raid RNG drops, it's something totally different), the thing that is wrong is also they're getting them for doing WQuests and other brain-dead activities.