New Orleans Liberty Place Monument removed -- other Confederate monuments to follow

[cubby]

I see, I read the main article where this little gem is


Clearly communication isn't this guy's strong suit.

Lol, totally. I had to read it three times to make sure I had it right.

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Ehmm... Kind of like these?

You're aware that Rommel was on record as wanting Hitler removed, right? He eventually killed himself because Hitler was going to do it for him.

Do you know your WWII history?

[Daelak]

Ehmm... Kind of like these?

You do know what Rommel did right?

[Coconuter]

None of this has anything to do with anything.

He made a well stated argument and this is your response? You are the very definition of arrogant.

The amount of posts people make on this forum board is baffling. It's almost like they are somehow experts on everything and their opinions matter more than others. I'm certain there's a word for that type of personality, and highly intelligent isn't it.

So instead of meaningful conversations this whole forum, every time I look, is just riddled with baseless arguments excluding the few people who may be knowledgeable of the topics.

[Daelak]

He made a well stated argument and this is your response? You are the very definition of arrogant.

The amount of posts people make on this forum board is baffling. It's almost like they are somehow experts on everything and their opinions matter more than others. I'm certain there's a word for that type of personality, and highly intelligent isn't it.

So instead of meaningful conversations this whole forum, every time I look, is just riddled with baseless arguments excluding the few people who may be knowledgeable of the topics.

Not really, because he falsely equates the cultures of the Deep South and New England and the Midlands. From there he goes on to downplay the only historically-backed reasoning for secession and firing upon US soldiers. I have stated earlier in this thread as to why they did it.

[Coconuter]

Not sure why this is here . . . . museums and books hold all the historical information and we put up statues and monuments to celebrate the stuff worth celebrating.




Not sure you want to use the U.S.S.R/Russia as an example of good statue removal, lol.

You often times have historical plaques, monuments, sites, parks, etc. to hold the stories of history as you walk the land. It's not just done out of celebration. It's done out of history. Will some people celebrate the evil done in some historical events? Certainly. That doesn't mean knowledge of the event should be shunned as something evil.

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Not really, because he falsely equates the cultures of the Deep South and New England and the Midlands. From there he goes on to downplay the only historically-backed reasoning for secession and firing upon US soldiers. I have stated earlier in this thread as to why they did it.

Oh right, he said something different than what you stated. His argument is completely null then because of your own expert reasoning.

[Daelak]

Oh right, he said something different than what you stated. His argument is completely null then because of your own expert reasoning.

He said that the sentiments and cultures of the south and the north were the same because you could own slaves. If that were true then what's the point of the Mason-Dixon? Why did millions volunteer to fight for the Union effort if they were "the same"?

It is a false argument perpetuated by a person who has been deluded by conservative propaganda. Damn big gubmint, neo-confederate variety that encapsulates the modern conservative movement today.

[Coconuter]

Not really, because he falsely equates the cultures of the Deep South and New England and the Midlands. From there he goes on to downplay the only historically-backed reasoning for secession and firing upon US soldiers. I have stated earlier in this thread as to why they did it.

He said that the sentiments and cultures of the south and the north were the same because you could own slaves. If that were true then what's the point of the Mason-Dixon? Why did millions volunteer to fight for the Union effort if they were "the same"?

It is a false argument perpetuated by a person who has been deluded by conservative propaganda. Damn big gubmint, neo-confederate variety that encapsulates the modern conservative movement today.

What did you even read then? Clearly not what he quoted.

And why does arguing that there were different reasons for the succession other than slavery mean that people are "neo-confederate?"

Sorry people might view things differently. It doesn't mean they support what happened and back it, it means they have a different view point. There's something wrong with you when you paint people as evil when they disagree with you. Then again, you live on a online forum board preaching your views as absolute.

[cuafpr]

Read my posts again please. I'm not saying get rid of all monuments to people who owned slaves, I'm saying get rid of monuments to people who actively fought wars to keep slavery.

its not like the majority of the north was fighting to end it.... even Lincoln would have left it legal if it prevented the war....

http://www.history.com/news/5-things...d-emancipation


The north fought to not lose the south's land and money not some moral crusade.

[Daelak]

What did you even read then? Clearly not what he quoted.

And why does arguing that there were different reasons for the succession other than slavery mean that people are "neo-confederate?"

Sorry people might view things differently. It doesn't mean they support what happened and back it, it means they have a different view point. There's something wrong with you when you paint people as evil when they disagree with you. Then again, you live on a online forum board preaching your views as absolute.

I did read what he quoted, which is why I responded to you.

Because the only reason for secession, written by actual secessionists and CSA leaders during the war say that's why they left. They attacked because their way of life was being cornered, unable to expand outside the confines of the deep south due to the unpopularity of their society past the Mississippi and into Central America.

It is only designed to muddy the waters, and falsely equate the historical truth, to some delusions to help people who may have positive sentiments about the culture and society of the deep south to feel comforted.

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its not like the majority of the north was fighting to end it.... even Lincoln would have left it legal if it prevented the war....

http://www.history.com/news/5-things...d-emancipation


The north fought to not lose the south's land and money not some moral crusade.

No, the south attacked because they could not expand their vision of a continental slave state due to the unpopularity of their way of life outside of the deep south.

[Gaaz]

You're aware that Rommel was on record as wanting Hitler removed, right? He eventually killed himself because Hitler was going to do it for him.

Do you know your WWII history?

You do know what Rommel did right?

Yes, yes... I know that. My post was made to point out to the previous poster that there are statues and memorials to Rommel. That said, there is no actual consensus as to what role did he play in the conspiracy. It might as well be that he simply knew about it and did nor report on it. And that was considered a capital offence treason during wartime Germany (or any other country for that matter). Nevertheless, many, myself included, regard him as one of the best military commanders of the era. Wether he was pro or anti Nazi is an entirely different subject. Same goes for even more controvercial figures like Michael Whittmann - a genious tank commander. The fact that I personally consider SS as "evil" organization in general, does not diminish the fact that these particular people had huge influence on the war and should be remembered and studied.

[cubby]

You often times have historical plaques, monuments, sites, parks, etc. to hold the stories of history as you walk the land. It's not just done out of celebration. It's done out of history. Will some people celebrate the evil done in some historical events? Certainly. That doesn't mean knowledge of the event should be shunned as something evil.

Knowledge and celebration are different.

A small plaque labeling a cite as something is different than a statue commemorating the same event. Removing statues and monuments isn't what you claim it to be - it's not nefarious or sinister. It's saying we don't celebrate these events in history.

No one is arguing to remove knowledge of historical events.

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Yes, yes... I know that. My post was made to point out to the previous poster that there are statues and memorials to Rommel. That said, there is no actual consensus as to what role did he play in the conspiracy. It might as well be that he simply knew about it and did nor report on it. And that was considered a capital offence treason during wartime Germany (or any other country for that matter). Nevertheless, many, myself included, regard him as one of the best military commanders of the era. Wether he was pro or anti Nazi is an entirely different subject. Same goes for even more controvercial figures like Michael Whittmann - a genious tank commander. The fact that I personally consider SS as "evil" organization in general, does not diminish the fact that these particular people had huge influence on the war and should be remembered and studied.

Remembered, studied, even revered in particular roles. Rommel is a great example of a member of an evil organization who might be celebrated because of his (uncertain) role in history. I think we are actually agreeing.

[starlord]

if you really want to remember what the civil war was about go to one of the still standing plantations in Louisiana and look at all the torture implements they used on the slaves.

[Templar 331]

All of those men are deserving of remembrance, but Robert E. Lee especially is deserving of monuments.

I'm all for remembering them, history needs to be preserved. I just don't see the need in having a large monument to them. To me a monument is an acknowledgement to someone who should be looked up to, both physically and metaphorically. To honor a group of individuals who fought against and killed Americans is really someone we shouldn't be looking up to. They may have been descent people but the fact remains that they tried to destroy this country and make their own.

[cuafpr]

OK. What does that have to do with the South's motivation to keep slavery?

just stating that being imo being a slave owner /pro-slavery back then doesn't automatically equal removal of statues.... even if you fought to preserve that way of life.

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I did read what he quoted, which is why I responded to you.

Because the only reason for secession, written by actual secessionists and CSA leaders during the war say that's why they left. They attacked because their way of life was being cornered, unable to expand outside the confines of the deep south due to the unpopularity of their society past the Mississippi and into Central America.

It is only designed to muddy the waters, and falsely equate the historical truth, to some delusions to help people who may have positive sentiments about the culture and society of the deep south to feel comforted.

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No, the south attacked because they could not expand their vision of a continental slave state due to the unpopularity of their way of life outside of the deep south.

yeah no....

[Daelak]

yeah no....

Yeah no what?

[kasuke06]

Sorry, America doesn't look fondly on racist and secessionist leaders of the confederacy.

And it looks less fondly on dictatorial actions undertaken by the elite to remove history they don't like.

[Dug]

And it looks less fondly on dictatorial actions undertaken by the elite to remove history they don't like.

You still have your history books relax

[PACOX]

People will keep on trying to whitewash slavery until the consequences from it no longer exist. So for about another 100 years.

[kasuke06]

You still have your history books relax

And how long until those get changed? How long until children are simply taught that the US was always a paragon of virtue and our leaders are the sole bastion of light in a world that wants us gone?(Unless they're a Republican, which means they're the single most evil person on the whole planet who stole their position from the gracious people's leader and must be resisted at all costs, and the people who voted for them hunted down like dogs!)

Historical revisionism is the worst kind of lie.

[Pterodactylus]

Wow, you alt-right folks got triggered. Bigly.