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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    I'm asking the OP to explain his vague post more. especially where he gets idea people don't prefer having a single culture. but I'm going to assume OP is European or the like where they have multiculturalism*. not the kind Americans are used to.
    Yeah I think people in the UK and Europe see Multiculturalism as "tribalism", with completely independent cultures and communities socially-exclusive from each other. It has a very specific meaning in Europe.

    People in US see it more as a mix of everyone together and influencing each other, which we describe more as a "melting pot".

    Quote Originally Posted by Krigaren View Post
    That's...actually completely wrong. Nationalism is for people NOT to open themselves up to other cultures. Multiculturalism is based on being openly accepting, integrating, and respecting other cultures. It absolutely doesn't have any tenants that cultures should be distinct, separate, and never interact.
    Case in point - People are arguing two entirely different things.

    "Multiculturalism is based on being openly accepting, integrating, and respecting other cultures. " - This is great. Most of us can hopefully agree on this.

    " It absolutely doesn't have any tenants that cultures should be distinct, separate, and never interact." - It does in the UK and EU though, that's why we specify Multiculturalism and not integration. This is where the arguments (and maybe misunderstandings) are coming from.
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2017-04-25 at 07:17 PM.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Look at every civilisation in the world. They are ALL a result of the many cultures coming together to produce something.....better. Rome, Greece. The US. China, Russia. The UK. The bringing together of many cultures produces stronger cultures, as the best aspects of each are maintained, while the bad things get weeded out. It the macro equivalent of bringing outside genes into a breeding pool.

    If you want your culture to be the civilisation equivalent of that group of hillbillies living in the wild and marrying their own daughters, then sure, you go for that. But don't be surprised when you end up with an in-bred civilisation with all manner of nasty genetic problems. While the rest of the world gets stronger and leaves you in the dust.
    That reminds me of Granada in Spain which is a prime example of this. It was governed by Moorish (African) Muslims and was a nation where Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together. At the time it was the most preeminent center of scholarship in the world and its destruction and looting (which ended up helping spread its knowledge throughout Christian Europe) gave birth to the Renaissance. It has a really fascinating history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
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    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Usually it feels a bit threatening especially when there is alot of them and when they look at you.
    I just think it's normal to speak the language of the country that you live in.
    If they are among themselves they can speak whatever they want in my opinion, they aren't talking to me. To me it just sounds that you are scared of what you don't know and therefor instantly assume the worse possible outcome, what is not that weird as it's something we are programmed to do.

    For me it doesn't bother me since from young age i was exposed to several languages, southern ones, eastern european ones, even arabic ones. For me it only comes across disrepectful when they address me in some manner and continue speaking it, knowing i don't get it fully.

  4. #64
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krigaren View Post
    That's...actually completely wrong. Nationalism is for people NOT to open themselves up to other cultures. Multiculturalism is based on being openly accepting, integrating, and respecting other cultures. It absolutely doesn't have any tenants that cultures should be distinct, separate, and never interact.
    About the word in bold, I just want to emphasize that there's two potential variations, which I'll label as "integration" and "assimilation".

    "Integration" is when they become full members of an inclusive and welcoming society, and are themselves inclusive and welcoming in return. The differences exist between cultural groups, but there's a shared sense of nationality that underlies all of that.

    "Assimilation" is when the new cultural group changes itself to be more like the "main" cultural group, eventually becoming an indistinguishable part of the whole.

    The two versions of multicultural theory basically boil down to "melting pot", like the USA, which favors the latter, or "salad bowl" which favors the former, which is closer to how Canada functions.


  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    eehh... it has worked... every empire that was multicultural, had a official language (latin, spanish, turkish, portugese, english, russian, etc)
    The topic was racism, and how to stop it.

    I didn't realize that racism no longer exists in countries that speak Spanish, Turkish, Portugese, English and Russian.
    "Lack of information on your part does not constitute bias on mine."


  6. #66
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Just wondering, why people think multi culture is a good thing for a country? Never figured out why 1 culture isn't good.
    It isn't.
    One of it's inherent precepts is that no culture is inferior to another culture.
    Which is nonsense.

  7. #67
    Deleted
    It's neither good nor bad. It just is.

    With that said, I dislike some peoples obsession with immigrants/minorities and associated behaviour.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Anni View Post
    It's neither good nor bad. It just is.

    With that said, I dislike some peoples obsession with immigrants/minorities and associated behaviour.
    +1 /10 chars

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That "conflict" is just a projection of your personal intolerance. Plenty of people don't get upset and hostile when confronted with culture.
    I'll certainly take your word for it then.



    Last I heard simplicity was the greatest complexity. And Multiculturalism makes life anything but simplistic.
    Last edited by Reinhard von Lohengramm; 2017-04-25 at 07:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Fascists should be marginalized, ostracized, bullied and on the occasion, decked. Their ideology is a cancer in our species.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Bigots don't deserve debate.
    War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Diversity is strength.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's a "good thing" because diversity brings new perspectives on things, because complexity and variety are net gains. Alexw's link above is a better description than I could give.

    You can still have "your own culture" and learn about other cultures WITHOUT leaving your own country. I could attend any number of cultural fairs in my region. Or visit ethnic restaurants. And so forth. I don't need to go to Vietnam to take a course on Vietnamese cooking from a Vietnamese chef, when I can get the same course at my local cooking school (as I did last week), from the same Vietnamese chef.
    Complexity is not necessarily a good thing, especially when it comes to navigating social behavior. It may be interesting on an individual level, especially to a high IQ individual, but on a societal level it creates a great deal of problems.

    Currently the strongest argument for supporting multiculturalism is that it is the trendy thing to do among the elite and the wanna-be elite of western society. It's beneficial to the elites because it largely neutralizes the struggle for class equality by allowing them to play cultural groups off of each other. In practice you actually see the wholesale abuse of multiculturalism by elites who inevitably use it as a wedge issue to prop up their own power.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  11. #71
    It promotes learning about the rest of the world, which in our globalized civilization is a good thing. Most countries lead better lives now than they did for say 200 years ago, because they influenced eachother and exchanged ideas, trade and other things.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Krigaren View Post
    The topic was racism, and how to stop it.

    I didn't realize that racism no longer exists in countries that speak Spanish, Turkish, Portugese, English and Russian.
    that was the topic?
    i mean, i was trying to argue that when you're living in a country, you're expected to talk in said country language, when talking to the nationals
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  13. #73
    It's not good, it's just not necessarily bad.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Complexity is not necessarily a good thing, especially when it comes to navigating social behavior. It may be interesting on an individual level, especially to a high IQ individual, but on a societal level it creates a great deal of problems.

    Currently the strongest argument for supporting multiculturalism is that it is the trendy thing to do among the elite and the wanna-be elite of western society. It's beneficial to the elites because it largely neutralizes the struggle for class equality by allowing them to play cultural groups off of each other. In practice you actually see the wholesale abuse of multiculturalism by elites who inevitably use it as a wedge issue to prop up their own power.
    Yes, the US elected a president who exemplifies that perfectly.

  15. #75
    Deleted
    There is ofcourse, the downside of Western Multiculture to the rest of the world.


  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Literally never worked in the history of the world? The most successful Empires in the history of our planet are Imperialist, bar none. The entire basis of our culture comes from it. Our very language is a remnant of an Imperial power from over 2000 years ago that lasted a Millennia, so get off your fucking high horse about it never working.
    Focus. We're talking about racism and how to eliminate it, remember? Racism is still a thing. It still exists. Therefore Imperialist power hasn't worked.

    As for needing to speak my language, yes, I do expect people who come to my country to learn how to speak to me, because if they don't, how the hell am I suppose to interact with them? Or better yet how the hell are they supposed to interact with the rest of the country?

    Yes the most effective way to combat racism is to open yourself up to other cultures, but its a bit fucking hard to do that when you can't even speak to each other.
    So the issue is you hating people to the point of being racist to them, simply because they don't speak your language. Okay.
    Last edited by Krigaren; 2017-04-25 at 07:38 PM.
    "Lack of information on your part does not constitute bias on mine."


  17. #77
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    There is ofcourse, the downside of Western Multiculture to the rest of the world.

    What's that got to do with multiculturalism? It's just saying you don't solve poverty through immigration.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    There is ofcourse, the downside of Western Multiculture to the rest of the world.

    Every politician should IMO watch this vid. Merkel most of all. On the other hand, she probably already knows about the undeniable facts of that vid..

  19. #79
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Anni View Post
    What's that got to do with multiculturalism? It's just saying you don't solve poverty through immigration.
    Because the idea of Western Multiculture is that we take the "best" immigrants into the West, to add to our collective knowledge/culture, which weakens the rest of the world.

  20. #80
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anni View Post
    What's that got to do with multiculturalism? It's just saying you don't solve poverty through immigration.
    More to the point, it demonstrates that you don't fix poverty in poor countries through immigration out of those countries.


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