Il'Gynoth's Whispers, Take 2

[vondevon]

Now that we are a bit further into Legion and it appears that we are gearing up for an expansion dealing with the Old Gods, I wanted to take another look at the whispers we got from Il'Gynoth back in EN to see if we have any new understandings of what was being hinted. Here are the whispers:

• Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator.

This is likely the most obvious of them all. It is a reference to the Curse of Flesh which was created by the Old Gods. Although Yogg'Saron is most famous for "gifting" the Titan-Forged wardens of his prison, we know that N'Zoth has the power to warp flesh because he is responsible for turning Azshara and her people into naga. The gift likely originates from The Three (alliance of remaining OGs after Y'Shaarj was destroyed.)

• To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars.

"Drown yourself" is likely a reference to the sleeping city of Ny'alotha which rests at the bottom of the ocean and is believed to be N'Zoth's prison. "Circle of stars" means nothing to me yet but early speculation pointed towards the city of Suramar. (Suramar, the Tomb of Sargeras, and Zin-Azshari share close proximity to each other and the Well of Eternity. Perhaps these cities form the "circle of stars" and Ny'alotha is at the center.)

• The king of diamonds has been made a pawn.

Consensus is that the King of Diamonds is Magni Bronzebeard who now serves as "the Speaker" for Azeroth. The question is the extent to which he is a pawn, and to whom. Some have said this whisper is Old God sass, meant as an insult to Magni and Azeroth. However, I remember reading somewhere that part of what corrupted Neltharion into Deathwing was that he had a hard time distinguishing Azeroth's whispers from the Old Gods, and in some ways he believed he was doing her bidding (I couldn't find the source for this but maybe someone else can?). If Magni is communing with Azeroth in the same way Neltharion once did, he is surely every bit as prone to them as Neltharion was.

• The lord of ravens will turn the key.

First hearing this led a lot of people to assume Lord Ravencrest but I'm pretty confident that was meant to distract. Another OG whisper from Yogg's Puzzle Box goes "The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow." which sounds to me like a reference to Karazhan and Deadwind Pass. Khadgar has been so relevant since WoD that he seems the most obvious, but the true lord of Karazhan has always been Medivh. Just before the final fight in Upper Kara, a fragment of Medivh appears to open the way. He tells Khadgar that he cannot help against the Legion because he "is needed elsewhere", then turns into a raven and flies off into the Nether. A return doesn't seem impossible.

• The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you.

The 3 most likely "boy-kings" are Anduin, Wrathion, and Illidan. I do not believe it is Illidan because, although he is referred to as a "child of light and shadow", nowhere is he ever referred to as a king and he has no royal lineage to speak of (his brother is Arch-Druid and not a king). I don't have any way to prove this but "serves at the master's table" implies to me that this service is not exactly willing or not known, so it could be Anduin even though he's such a goodie-goodie. That being said, Old Gods are notoriously vague and deceptive so I'm inclined to avoid the obvious answer. This leaves Wrathion who is a big player but went largely MIA this xpac. His single-minded drive to defeat the Legion will likely lay the red carpet for the Void, and it's always possible that even he was not spared the corruption of his father (or the OGs knew Deathwing might fail and so created a back-up player in the form of his son).

• Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.

Again, everyone jumped straight to Jaina (the crater in her heart being her home of Theramore, now a literal crater) and her hate for the Horde at the start of this xpac that prompted her to drop the whole fight against the Legion. Avoiding easy answers, this could also be referring to Sylvanas or perhaps Azeroth herself. Personally, I really hope it isn't Sylvanas because a) I love her, and b) we already had a corrupt Horde leader only 2 xpacs ago, like give it a rest. Azeroth fits because the crater would be the Well of Eternity which filled with her Titan blood, and N'Zoth's relative location to it could mean that he's been drinking it in this whole time.

• Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.

Obvs the 5 Pillars of Creation

• At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.

If you believe the "heart is a crater" whisper refers to Sylvanas, then you could argue that this whisper has something to do with her too. Others have expressed that this might be referring again to Azeroth herself. This is, afterall, the 3rd invasion of the Burning Legion. Many are saying it's Chromie, during the upcoming scenario: The Deaths of Chromie I have a strong suspicion that this is referring to Aegwynn. After completing Cathedral of Eternal Night, an image of Aegwynn appears, directing you to place the remaining pillars in the Tomb below and use the Eye to abate the Felstorm. As we now know, the pillars and the Eye will not only close the door on the Legion, but will also pave the way for N'Zoth's release. Aegwynn essentially "died" once by transferring her life essence in Jaina (surviving only because of residual Guardian energies). She died for real when facing off with Cho'gall. Nonetheless, the image says that she will be there at the final battle/final hour so it's possible she'll die again.

• From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.

Every reference to Azeroth is "she" so this one clearly isn't her. Is this Magni communing with what he thinks is Azeroth? Is this Wrathion, son of the old Earth Warden? Or is this Thrall, the new Earth Warder who has been troubled as of late because the elements no longer answer him? Has he turned to a new source of power?

• Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below.

This sounds like the Well of Eternity, although it now exists as the Maelstrom which is anything but bright. Perhaps the Nightwell or Sunwell, if either of those are still around. What other fonts of power still exist in Azeroth?

[micwini]

This isn't take 2, this is take 101. already 10 million threads about this shit.

It's all banter. Old gods and their minions have been spouting these kind of oneliners for years.
How many of those have come to pass? I count 0.

It's just manipulation and demoralisation. It's their way of controling creatures to do their bidding.

[vondevon]

This isn't take 2, this is take 101. already 10 million threads about this shit.

It's all banter. Old gods and their minions have been spouting these kind of oneliners for years.
How many of those have come to pass? I count 0.

It's just manipulation and demoralisation. It's their way of controling creatures to do their bidding.

As someone who has been playing since the first Alpha of this damn game, I've seen a lot of Blizzard's easter eggs and hints over the years. Chalk it up to game dev's who like the smell of their own farts if it makes you feel better but they are anything but subtle about the direction they want to take players.

[Aucald]

I believe Il'gynoth's whisperings aren't all related to current events and that some of them cover historic events. In the order of the OP's list these are my personal answers to Il'gynoth's rambling "prophecies":

- The Curse of Flesh

- The Maelstrom itself, the remnant of the Well of the Eternity

- Magni, made into a pawn of the uncorrupted Titan World-Soul within Azeroth

- Medivh, opening the Dark Portal and ushering in the current age (hastening the awakening of all the somnolent Old Gods)

- Wrathion, self-proclaimed lord of the Black Dragonflight and scion of Deathwing

- Azeroth herself in regard to the wound left by the destroyed Well of Eternity.

- Pillars of Creation

- Azeroth herself again, succumbing to the multiple attempts to corrupt her by the Legion and the Void Lords.

- Deathwing and his corruption

- I'm split between the Well of Eternity or possibly Light's Heart itself.

[vondevon]

- I'm split between the Well of Eternity or possibly Light's Heart itself.

Light's Heart is a good guess!

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.

For the last time, this is reference to Elisande.

Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.

This is reference to Azeroth's maelstrom.

[Aucald]

Light's Heart is a good guess!

I have a serious mistrust of Xe'ra, and I believe it may not be as forthright or "good" as it otherwise appears to seem.

[vondevon]

For the last time, this is reference to Elisande.

I get that the Elisande encounter has 3 stages but she never actually dies until the last phase. And what part of her death or the encounter "usher[s] in [their] coming" ?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I have a serious mistrust of Xe'ra, and I believe it may not be as forthright or "good" as it otherwise appears to seem.

It came out of nowhere to right around Legion invaded. Pretty convenient as well. I know Turalyon is in the message but still. Guess we'll find out on Argus...


Or not. Blizzard can forget the stuff they make >.>

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I get that the Elisande encounter has 3 stages but she never actually dies until the last phase. And what part of her death or the encounter "usher[s] in [their] coming" ?

Bingo. She doesn't die until the third phase, with her death, she sees a new timeline that the Legion may fall, which shortly after does Gul'dan die. With his death we have the 5 pillars, which were reference to being "the torches to light their path" - "The five keys to open their way". Just think about it. Why would it be anyone else? Elisande was the only thing standing in front of us from defeating Gul'dan and retrieving the last pillar. The 5 pillars are obviously going to free N'zoth from his prison or do something voidy.

[evermynd]

I get that the Elisande encounter has 3 stages but she never actually dies until the last phase. And what part of her death or the encounter "usher[s] in [their] coming" ?

the fact that she rewinds time could have consequences

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Bingo. She doesn't die until the third phase, with her death, she sees a new timeline that the Legion may fall, which shortly after does Gul'dan die. With his death we have the 5 pillars, which were reference to being "the torches to light their path" - "The five keys to open their way". Just think about it. Why would it be anyone else? Elisande was the only thing standing in front of us from defeating Gul'dan and retrieving the last pillar. The 5 pillars are obviously going to free N'zoth from his prison or do something voidy.

The original intention is to shut the Tomb of Sargeras portal. I think it will still serve that purpose.

[vondevon]

I have a serious mistrust of Xe'ra, and I believe it may not be as forthright or "good" as it otherwise appears to seem.

You're right, there is still a lot about Turalyon and the Army of the Light that we don't know, and her timely appearance is suspect.

A'dal, the current leader of a group of naaru called the Sha'tar, condoned Illidan's death. It is unknown if A'dal knew about Xe'ra or Xe'ra's prophecy, or if he did but still went against her. It is furthermore unknown if Xe'ra has any affiliation with the Sha'tar at all.

Xe'ra's affinity towards Illidan became suspicious among the fanbase. Speculations like Xe'ra being some kind of a false illusion (such as Kil'jaeden's) quickly spread. Illidan himself, at first, believed this about the elder naaru as well, and added that Kil'jaeden was not called "the Deceiver" for nothing.

However, the elder naaru then rescued Illidan from having his spirit captured or destroyed by Kil'jaeden as he was attempting to set up a portal between Argus and Outland. Kil'jaeden roared in rage when Illidan managed to escape with the naaru's aid.

And as I've pointed out elsewhere on this forum, any blow struck at the Legion is a victory for the Void as well. If Xe'ra is a being of light from the ordering of the universe, she should know that.

[Golden Yak]

Now that we are a bit further into Legion and it appears that we are gearing up for an expansion dealing with the Old Gods, I wanted to take another look at the whispers we got from Il'Gynoth back in EN to see if we have any new understandings of what was being hinted. Here are the whispers:

Old God speculation is best speculation, and while Il'gynoth may not be saying the whole truth, there's enough there that jives with current events that it's worth paying attention to. Even if its all lies, enough lies can give you the shape of a truth, by looking where the lies aren't. My thoughts:

This is likely the most obvious of them all. It is a reference to the Curse of Flesh which was created by the Old Gods. Although Yogg'Saron is most famous for "gifting" the Titan-Forged wardens of his prison, we know that N'Zoth has the power to warp flesh because he is responsible for turning Azshara and her people into naga. The gift likely originates from The Three (alliance of remaining OGs after Y'Shaarj was destroyed.)

Also worth noting that during the Cataclysm, Deathwings elemental agents in Uldum had the capacity to reverse the Curse of Flesh and return flesh and blood tol'vir into stone tol'vir. N'Zoth would have been the only active Old God at that time, and therefore the one pulling Deathwing's strings. So N'Zoth knows the Curse in and out.

"Drown yourself" is likely a reference to the sleeping city of Ny'alotha which rests at the bottom of the ocean and is believed to be N'Zoth's prison. "Circle of stars" means nothing to me yet but early speculation pointed towards the city of Suramar. (Suramar, the Tomb of Sargeras, and Zin-Azshari share close proximity to each other and the Well of Eternity. Perhaps these cities form the "circle of stars" and Ny'alotha is at the center.)

In light of Il'gynoth's dying's quote (N'Zoth... I journey... to Ny'alotha...), the Sleeping City's true nature is even more mysterious. Is it some kind of afterlife for Old God/Void entities? Is it a realm of the dead in the Shadowlands? If it's an ancient Old God temple or city that's simply been buried beneath the surface/sea, why would Il'gynoth be 'journeying' there upon death? Did N'Zoth create him through the Nightmare and then somehow reclaim him upon his destruction? Who knows!

Xal'atath mentions that the Tomb of Sargeras, originally a temple to Elune, was built upon an even older structure. She makes references to the trolls building before the elves, and something else before the trolls. She also comments that the Tomb of Sargeras pales before what stood here before, and makes references to some kind of great battle that took place long ago, during the age of the Black Empire. All of it implies that the Tomb is built upon something a whole lot older.

Finally, according to Chronicles, N'Zoth's Titan prison was situated pretty close to where the Broken Isles are now, and that was pre-Sundering and pre-Cataclysm, when it may have been shifted even closer. So somewhere in the Broken Isles era is either a Titan structure, an Old God structure, or both. The very earliest Old God lore makes reference to the Titans chaining the Old Gods within their own citadels and burying them - perhaps the Titans chose to turn N'Zoth's own stronghold into his prison for some reason and bury it deep. That could be Ny'alotha.

Consensus is that the King of Diamonds is Magni Bronzebeard who now serves as "the Speaker" for Azeroth. The question is the extent to which he is a pawn, and to whom. Some have said this whisper is Old God sass, meant as an insult to Magni and Azeroth. However, I remember reading somewhere that part of what corrupted Neltharion into Deathwing was that he had a hard time distinguishing Azeroth's whispers from the Old Gods, and in some ways he believed he was doing her bidding (I couldn't find the source for this but maybe someone else can?). If Magni is communing with Azeroth in the same way Neltharion once did, he is surely every bit as prone to them as Neltharion was.

Neltharion was mentioned as being corrupted by deep whispers from beneath the Earth - I don't know if it was ever mentioned that he was ever capable of hearing Azeroth's voice as well. But if he could, and the Old Gods took advantage of that and insinuated themselves into the line of communication to corrupt Neltharion, that would make sense and be a plausible lore point. And that would definitely mean Magni is vulnerable to deception as well.

First hearing this led a lot of people to assume Lord Ravencrest but I'm pretty confident that was meant to distract. Another OG whisper from Yogg's Puzzle Box goes "The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow." which sounds to me like a reference to Karazhan and Deadwind Pass. Khadgar has been so relevant since WoD that he seems the most obvious, but the true lord of Karazhan has always been Medivh. Just before the final fight in Upper Kara, a fragment of Medivh appears to open the way. He tells Khadgar that he cannot help against the Legion because he "is needed elsewhere", then turns into a raven and flies off into the Nether. A return doesn't seem impossible.

Not much to add here, yeah. The Legion's Burning Crusade is part of a larger conflict against the Void and all its manifestations. Could be the people in the know are starting to turn their eyes towards the greater conflict.

The 3 most likely "boy-kings" are Anduin, Wrathion, and Illidan. I do not believe it is Illidan because, although he is referred to as a "child of light and shadow", nowhere is he ever referred to as a king and he has no royal lineage to speak of (his brother is Arch-Druid and not a king). I don't have any way to prove this but "serves at the master's table" implies to me that this service is not exactly willing or not known, so it could be Anduin even though he's such a goodie-goodie. That being said, Old Gods are notoriously vague and deceptive so I'm inclined to avoid the obvious answer. This leaves Wrathion who is a big player but went largely MIA this xpac. His single-minded drive to defeat the Legion will likely lay the red carpet for the Void, and it's always possible that even he was not spared the corruption of his father (or the OGs knew Deathwing might fail and so created a back-up player in the form of his son).

It's hard to imagine Anduin becoming a puppet of darker forces, particularly after his recent pledge to the spirit of his father. It would be a little contrived to have him be deceived and led into darkness at this point, but maybe that vision of Varian wasn't from who we thought it was?

Wrathion's absence though is indeed conspicuous. The last time he appeared in lore he was dealing with the Infinite Dragonflight - their previous big plan seemed to be to set up some kind of 'false End Times' that ended up with Deathwing and Azeroth pretty much dead, in order to avoid the 'true End Times'. I suspect that true End Times would be the corruption of Azeroth and the victory of the Void over the universe. Whether that means the Infinites are opposed to the Void or pawns of the Void I don't know, but their agenda turned them from defenders of Azeroth to enemies of Azeroth and largely led to their destruction, just like Deathwing - classic Old God move.

Again, everyone jumped straight to Jaina (the crater in her heart being her home of Theramore, now a literal crater) and her hate for the Horde at the start of this xpac that prompted her to drop the whole fight against the Legion. Avoiding easy answers, this could also be referring to Sylvanas or perhaps Azeroth herself. Personally, I really hope it isn't Sylvanas because a) I love her, and b) we already had a corrupt Horde leader only 2 xpacs ago, like give it a rest. Azeroth fits because the crater would be the Well of Eternity which filled with her Titan blood, and N'Zoth's relative location to it could mean that he's been drinking it in this whole time.

Jaina will temporarily become a pawn of the Old Gods and the Void, then she'll be freed and become the Avatar of Azeroth and save the day, forever. Believe it.

Obvs the 5 Pillars of Creation

Yus, though I still don't see how they'll play into N'Zoth's release. They were used by the Titanforged to shape the world in the past, presumably they could be used to shape it again. Perhaps this would release N'Zoth somehow. Odyn is on his way to Ulduar to reconnect with his fellow Titanforged keepers, and we've seen a lot of signs in Odyn's history that he's kind've a dick, so possibly he'll make a play for the Pillars later and wind up screwing things up for everyone.

If you believe the "heart is a crater" whisper refers to Sylvanas, then you could argue that this whisper has something to do with her too. Her first death was becoming a Banshee at the hands of Arthas. Her second was suicide at the end of WotLK, whereupon seeing only shadow, she instead chose to bond with the Val'kyr and return to the Forsaken. Her third death might finally explain the deal she made with Helya, who had ties to N'Zoth.

Others have expressed that this might be referring again to Azeroth herself. This is, afterall, the 3rd invasion of the Burning Legion. Perhaps it's that simple.

Could be a reference to Elisande, whose 3rd death in her time powered encounter opened the way to reclaim the final pillar, the Eye of Aman'thul. It wasn't really her death that allowed us to take it though, but Gul'dan's. Could also be talking about Sylvanas, who dies all the time.

Every reference to Azeroth is "she" so this one clearly isn't her. Is this Magni communing with what he thinks is Azeroth? Is this Wrathion, son of the old Earth Warden? Or is this Thrall, the new Earth Warden who has been troubled as of late because the elements no longer answer him? Has he turned to a new source of power?

Personally I think Magni is the one this most likely refers to. Thrall's time in the spotlight has likely passed and there's no sign of Wrathion, but Magni have been moved center-stage and we've yet to see the full implications of his new form, and where his insight is really coming from.

This sounds like the Well of Eternity, although it now exists as the Maelstrom which is anything but bright. Perhaps the Nightwell or Sunwell, if either of those are still around. What other fonts of power still exist in Azeroth?

The Sunwell is an interesting possibility, considering it was re-ignited by a naaru and is now a source of Light energy, which we know can become corrupted into Void energy (though the reverse is also possible). Could also be the Light's Heart, which some people have theorized might be sabotaged by the Void somehow.

I also theorized that Azeroth's core containing the nascent Titan is like a vast shining gemstone deep beneath the surface - it may be a reference to Azeroth's worldsoul, which has been tainted by the Void to some extent.

[Rhiziana]

[/LIST][/COLOR]
If you believe the "heart is a crater" whisper refers to Sylvanas, then you could argue that this whisper has something to do with her too. Her first death was becoming a Banshee at the hands of Arthas. Her second was suicide at the end of WotLK, whereupon seeing only shadow, she instead chose to bond with the Val'kyr and return to the Forsaken. Her third death might finally explain the deal she made with Helya, who had ties to N'Zoth.

She died in Silverpine forest aswell.

[huth]

Bingo. She doesn't die until the third phase, with her death, she sees a new timeline that the Legion may fall, which shortly after does Gul'dan die. With his death we have the 5 pillars, which were reference to being "the torches to light their path" - "The five keys to open their way". Just think about it. Why would it be anyone else? Elisande was the only thing standing in front of us from defeating Gul'dan and retrieving the last pillar. The 5 pillars are obviously going to free N'zoth from his prison or do something voidy.

All you're doing is ignoring contradictory evidence to make your story work. Spend some time doing some thinking about it yourself. The important question isn't "why would it be anyone else", but "why wouldn't it"?

[micwini]

For the last time, this is reference to Elisande.

This is reference to Azeroth's maelstrom.

Elisande dies only once. She reverts time while being at low HP, not while dead. Use your head before posting next time please.

[huth]

Could be a reference to Elisande, whose 3rd death in her time powered encounter opened the way to reclaim the final pillar, the Eye of Aman'thul. It wasn't really her death that allowed us to take it though, but Gul'dan's. Could also be talking about Sylvanas, who dies all the time.

As was said before, she only dies once. She rewinds time before her death, starting the next phase. So she's out as a possible candidate, on account of insufficient deaths.

Another option would be Azeroth. Y'Shaarj's removal, the destruction of the Well of Eternity, and some event yet to happen(or be revealed, at least). Maybe the Cataclysm was worse than we thought.

[Rampant Rabbit]

This seems to be the same type of speculation as in the beginning. Most of these conclusions are similar to their predecessors.

That said, am I the only one curious about the "our" reference in multiple quotes? "our earth, open our way, light our path" I guess the obvious conclusion is... Void Lords? Or is it Old Gods? One in the same, I get it, but for the sake of wonder... which one?

I really, really, REALLY hope we get a multiple OG boss encounter out of all this.

I assume it refers to the Void Lords since N'zoth should be the last Old God left to face on Azeroth. I can only imagine that the Void comes next.

[Elbob]

As was said before, she only dies once. She rewinds time before her death, starting the next phase. So she's out as a possible candidate, on account of insufficient deaths.

Another option would be Azeroth. Y'Shaarj's removal, the destruction of the Well of Eternity, and some event yet to happen(or be revealed, at least). Maybe the Cataclysm was worse than we thought.

I'm not saying Elisande is the only possible option Sylvanas is def in the running for "3 deaths" but Elisande isn't merely rewinding time she is pulling from other time lines because her current self is about to die. So in old gods "half truths" kind of speaking she did die 3 times during the encounter in which she then aids you in defeating GD. She is the reason we could defeat gul'dan because she aided us with immensely powerful abilities during the encounter. By stopping GD the pillars can once again be used in the tomb which is (likely) built on top of or near N'zoth's prison.

Also worth noting that at the end of the encounter, Elisande comments how she is losing control of the timelines. (other then being a reason for the fight to end) This could be by the old gods doing to make her choose to opt in with the heroes of Azeroth.