Flying Next Expack

[SirCowdog]

There really is no good reason for their not to be flying unlockable at max level at the start of an expansion. Other than Blizzard loves to act like petulant children on the subject of flying because the players disagree with them.

There's a good reason, it's just good for Blizzard and not good for players. Whether or not a person finds that acceptable is up to them.

Flying is great, don't get me wrong. But I don't understand this whole FUCK YOU IM NOT PAYING UNLESS FLYING AT START attitude comes from.

It comes from an entire expansion(WoD) of Blizzard beating around the bush, misleading, misrepresenting, and miscommunicating their intentions towards flight. People are sick of it. And so when they did the whole "flying is delayed" garbage again in Legion, a lot of people had simply had enough.

I know some people don't view flight as a big deal, because they're invested in other parts of the game. But for others, Flying is something that defines what WoW is. Yeah, ok...sure, we never had flight in dungeons or raids, whatever. But the open world aspects of the game? The part where people really feel like they have some freedom to adventure how they want? That's kind of important to some people, and by dicking around with flying like they are, Blizzard is pissing those people off after 8 years of letting them get used to a certain type of gameplay. That's not ok.

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Obligatory "flying in WoW thread" observation:


:thinking:

Hey videogames are my hobby. I don't know why anyone would think it's a problem for people to talk about the things they like.

Also...I might have a lot of free time at work to check my phone.... xD

[WowIsDead64]

Flying is great, don't get me wrong. But I don't understand this whole FUCK YOU IM NOT PAYING UNLESS FLYING AT START attitude comes from.

Flying makes the game a heck of a lot more fun and less headachey, but my god its not that big of a deal if we don't get it. At least they allow flying at later points in the game.

Tho I wouldn't mind getting flying at the start next expansion. Been a while since we got flying as soon as we hit max level. But I wouldn't mind if we don't.

People like you simply don't see the whole picture. You should understand, that there is only one thing, that always stays the same in Wow - raids. So, you're just lucky man, if raiding - is your primary activity in Wow. All other things are constantly being changed. And sometimes it's 180 degrees changes. And sometimes that means, that some kind of content, you have been playing and enjoying for several years, is being taken away from you, so you all of a sudden have to find replacement for it. And you know. First it seems, that it isn't that bad - you just need to adapt and change your playstyle. But there is point, when you just say - it's enough for me. I've found playstyle, I enjoy. I've found my place in this game. AND I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING. PLEASE, LEAVE ME ALONE.

TL;DR We've already got sick of this constant confrontation, lasting for several years - we just want to play the game, we like.

[iNUKE]

Your poll options are "retarded" (for the lack of better words)

Just like legion would be good for me.

I don't like flying since day one, i like it to be a hard achievement but possible.

[Deleted]

You should understand, that there is only one thing, that always stays the same in Wow - raids

Are you joking? where is my 10-man heroic (nowadays Mythic) format that i enjoyed in MOP when i joined retail?

[Deleted]

I am OK with pathfinder, but not with a delay of almost a year. You should be getting flight in the first released zones as soon as you complete the PF achievement for these zones. In Legion this would have been finishing Suramaritan / Loremaster of Legion, because this was the longest part.

But delaying flight until a new zone is out and some more achievements have to be done is a shady tactic.

[Chrno]

to all the people saying flight should be integrated into the game world:
I'd be great if flight would be enabled next expansion with aerial combat just like WotLK was supposed to have. The entire sky would be littered with mobs.


my guess is that the pro-flightcamp would hate it lol

[Deleted]

Flying is great, don't get me wrong. But I don't understand this whole FUCK YOU IM NOT PAYING UNLESS FLYING AT START attitude comes from.

Flying makes the game a heck of a lot more fun and less headachey, but my god its not that big of a deal if we don't get it. At least they allow flying at later points in the game.

Tho I wouldn't mind getting flying at the start next expansion. Been a while since we got flying as soon as we hit max level. But I wouldn't mind if we don't.

It comes from the dick attitude of other people who say "then just leave" and "stop complaining and vote with your wallet". If Blizzard would take complaints about no-flying seriously and implementing a better solution, then pro-flyers would not have to resort to such measures.

[WowIsDead64]

Are you joking? where is my 10-man heroic (nowadays Mythic) format that i enjoyed in MOP when i joined retail?

Well, at least core design and amount of effort, Blizzard put into it, stay the same. I mean, if you enjoy raiding - you can buy new xpack without any doubts, cuz Blizzard will never fail at doing great raids.

[Deleted]

to all the people saying flight should be integrated into the game world:
I'd be great if flight would be enabled next expansion with aerial combat just like WotLK was supposed to have. The entire sky would be littered with mobs.


my guess is that the pro-flightcamp would hate it lol

Nope. I was handling Kaliri birds and cannons in TBC just fine and did all flying races back then. But I also had no problems with a 3D environment in Vash'jir. And many people had, this is possibly the real reason behind the fact that we will not get true aerial combat.

[Thelxi]

I used to not really care about flying, and I used to not really mind waiting a bit to unlock it. Legion however has changed my opinion.

Blizzard went out of their way to make zones inefficient and tedious, that now with flying I am enjoying the continent far more than I did without flying. I never want to spend 10 minutes trying to figure out a way back to my corpse ever again.

If the next expansion's terrain is just as tedious and crammed as Legion's was I want flying immediately. I won't be happy at all if they save flying as the main selling point of yet another barren patch.

[Chrno]

Nope. I was handling Kaliri birds and cannons in TBC just fine and did all flying races back then. But I also had no problems with a 3D environment in Vash'jir. And many people had, this is possibly the real reason behind the fact that we will not get true aerial combat.

same, i actually enjoyed Vash'jir.
i just really think many people that enjoy flight like it because you can evade mobs on the ground. I honestly think people would hate it if the sky was filled up with mobs.

[Deleted]

Well, at least core design and amount of effort, Blizzard put into it, stay the same. I mean, if you enjoy raiding - you can buy new xpack without any doubts, cuz Blizzard will never fail at doing great raids.

I enjoy 10-man raiding, 20-man it is okish at best, FOR ME that is it.
The difference of the 10-man and 20-man is huge, at least for me and from a DPS point of view.
So even if they still do great raids, the change in format is capital for some people, as for others is the legendaries+tintanforge procs for example.
Any change in raids can make some people stop enjoying them.

[Vorecien]

Sorry, I know I'm jumping into the middle of your guys' conversation. But your post made me think of something that came up earlier:

What if Part I and Part II were broken up into smaller pieces and done similar to the Epic Cloak or Epic Ring quest from MoP and WoD? The first part would unlock the ability for your mount to slowfall. Part 2 would be gliding. Part 3 Emerald winds. Part 4 the boost into the air from Aviana's feather. And finally, a the end when all the ground content has been completed, part 5 with true unlimited flight?

This wouldn't really address the point about not knowing EXACTLY when full flying would be available, but it would give people a ballpark idea while still leaving plenty of leeway in the design process and release schedule to make adjustments along the way. It would also give people a feeling of actual progression of power, instead of the over-simplified "Oh look the flight switch has been turned from off to on!", not to mention tying the progression of flight into the greater context of the story and lore of the expansion.

The problem with the evolution of achievement in your proposal ties back into game design. Every mount design must be carefully considered. Would all mounts be able to slow fall? Sure, as that would probably only be a hidden buff (aura) on the player - easy. Would every mount be able to glide? Eh, maybe? The answer isn't really clear.

The other participant in this conversation wants Pathfinder to remain as is, but instead allow the player to attain the achievement minus the wait. Effectively, this would mean that Part II of the meta wouldn't exist - how could it? Also, the flying would be character bound, as opposed to account wide.

[Wondercrab]

I quite like the pathfinder achievement as a way of rewarding flying. What I detest is the artificial time gates on when you're allowed to actually complete it.

[Vorecien]

I quite like the pathfinder achievement as a way of rewarding flying. What I detest is the artificial time gates on when you're allowed to actually complete it.

Artificial? Do you mean arbitrary?

Arbitrary would mean that Blizzard decided, "willy nilly", that NOW is the time to implement flying. They stated in November 2016 that 7.2 would be the place that flying is implemented. We just didn't have a release for 7.2 at that time. What is arbitrary about that?

[Thelxi]

Artificial? Do you mean arbitrary?

Arbitrary would mean that Blizzard decided, "willy nilly", that NOW is the time to implement flying. They stated in November 2016 that 7.2 would be the place that flying is implemented. We just didn't have a release for 7.2 at that time. What is arbitrary about that?

He said artificial not arbitrary. You said arbitrary. If you want to spark a semantic argument at least do it properly.

[Vorecien]

He said artificial not arbitrary. You said arbitrary. If you want to spark a semantic argument at least do it properly.

What are you doing? I'm attempting to establish a clear understanding of their post. No need to flame me for trying to understand another person; at least I'm making an effort.

[Wondercrab]

Artificial? Do you mean arbitrary?

Arbitrary would mean that Blizzard decided, "willy nilly", that NOW is the time to implement flying. They stated in November 2016 that 7.2 would be the place that flying is implemented. We just didn't have a release for 7.2 at that time. What is arbitrary about that?

I meant artificial because the time gating doesn't feel at all like an organic part of the game, but rather an external restriction placed upon it by the designers. Pathfinder part 2, for example, feels a lot better than part 1 because you're able to actively work toward it by doing dailies and gathering supplies, even though it's still effectively just another 2-3 week time gate. The difference is that you the player take active steps toward earning your reward rather than doing all you can and then being forced to twiddle your thumbs for months until the devs decide you're allowed to progress again.

I don't object at all to holding players back from flying so that they can have a few weeks/months of grounded gameplay, but they should be able to actively work towards unlocking flight right from the start without having to wait around until the devs say it's ok.

[SirCowdog]

to all the people saying flight should be integrated into the game world:
I'd be great if flight would be enabled next expansion with aerial combat just like WotLK was supposed to have. The entire sky would be littered with mobs.


my guess is that the pro-flightcamp would hate it lol

While I think it would be VERY interesting to see how Blizzard tackles aerial combat with today's technology, I don't think flight needs to be taken to that level in order to be a significant aspect of the game. The game world can still be ground-centric, with just enough credible threats to flying players(in terms of mobs or environment) to mitigate the problems that Blizzard has with it. |

The problem with the evolution of achievement in your proposal ties back into game design. Every mount design must be carefully considered. Would all mounts be able to slow fall? Sure, as that would probably only be a hidden buff (aura) on the player - easy. Would every mount be able to glide? Eh, maybe? The answer isn't really clear.

The other participant in this conversation wants Pathfinder to remain as is, but instead allow the player to attain the achievement minus the wait. Effectively, this would mean that Part II of the meta wouldn't exist - how could it? Also, the flying would be character bound, as opposed to account wide.

I was thinking of flight in a general sense. As in how it works now, where every flying mount is functionally identical.

The problem with simply unlocking flight via a single stage Pathfinder achievement in the launch patch, is that it still doesn't address any of the issues that flight supposedly creates for Blizzard's open world design theory. If flight remains as powerful as it is, the problems for content design also remain the same. Unlocking it earlier might be cool for the players, but it doesn't solve anything. Think about it for a moment: If flight is available at launch, that means that every single piece of content released after that has to be designed to not be trivialized when a flying player engages with it. And that means that they might as well have build everything around flying in the first place....or worse....go back to using No-Flying islands for every piece of open world that gets released after players have flight.

This is why I'm pushing for not only a change to the open world design to account for flight, but also to change how flight works so that the open world design can integrate more gameplay opportunities involving flight as well. SoulBreezy's video actually covered that concept pretty well. Until Blizzard buckles down and actually deals with how flying works, they're going to keep having the same problems.

[Spike`]

if next expansion is queen azshara and nagas we can all forget about flying