Look how great Odynn is! (warrior hall Odyn lore)

[Clone]

I can not believe this. Did you really not get the point. I would ask again, how do you know it was unnecessary, but it's probably wasted time. I'm out.

That's funny, I could say the same thing about you.

You are talking about it like the Legion was about to destroy Azeroth until Odyn came up with a brilliant idea and turned the tides, and Heya was selfish for not going along with it, when it wasn't the case.

But go ahead, walk away.

[Wildmoon]

The Titan's power empowered the aspects. The Titans themselves were in no way privy to that decision nor where they consulted and their consent granted.

One has ask how the hell did the keepers gave the aspects the powers of the pantheon when they did not have it themselves. The titans left long before that. Ra did not hold power over time itself. How would he give it to Nozdormu? The power of the pantheon was floating in the air or something?

[Magnagarde]

That's funny, I could say the same thing about you.

You are talking about it like the Legion was about to destroy Azeroth until Odyn came up with a brilliant idea and turned the tides, and Heya was selfish for not going along with it, when it wasn't the case.

But go ahead, walk away.

Odyn didn't have to create the Val'kyr, but he is the prime enforcer of the Titan's will on Azeroth. He is literally the hand of the gods of the Warcraft universe on Azeroth and as such his questions can't be questioned like that because how does one define deities' actions through the norms of mortals. Odyn is an extention of the creators' will and remains just that for as long as he keeps Azeroth's well-being in sight.

It is like asking why the Titans did something when they did; they did because they chose to. It is a divine intervention by the highest known authorities of creation that we're talking about here. Whatever they chose to do is the norm through which the universe is shaped. Their decisions are so much of a norm that they even installed a worldwide reboot system through Algalon incase things don't go as they had imagined.

[Tripzzz]

What are they supposed to prove again? Odyn was betrayed by Helya and her Val'kyr. Betrayed by Loken. And finally betrayed by Skovald and an entire clan of Vrykul. That's somewhat more people betraying him than Sylvanas.




That's only because you're ignorant of lore, as per usual (with a possibly of inability to count as well). And Forsaken are fighting the Legion.




And Valarjar did fuck all for millennia.

Somewhat more than Slyvanus? You must be joking. Helya, Loken, Skovald is only 3. SLYVANUS was betrayed by Putress, Varimathras, Stillwater, Godfrey, Galen and Koltira.

I don't give a fuck if the forsaken are fighting the Legion. Everyone else is too. I'm specifically talking about Slyvanus. Where the fuck is she in fighting the Legion? Try to comprehend what you are responding to next time.

It was thanks to the Valarjar and Odyn that Azeroth had a millenna in it's future. They defeated the Black Empire. I assume you know what that is. Get rekt.

[Frontenac]

Somewhat more than Slyvanus? You must be joking. Helya, Loken, Skovald is only 3. SLYVANUS was betrayed by Putress, Varimathras, Stillwater, Godfrey, and Koltira.

I don't give a fuck if the forsaken are fighting the Legion. Everyone else is too. I'm specifically talking about Slyvanus. Where the fuck is she in fighting the Legion? Try to comprehend what you are responding to next time.

It was thanks to the Valarjar and Odyn that Azeroth had a millenna in it's future. They defeated the Black Empire. I assume you know what that is. Get rekt.

The Black Empire had been defeated before Odyn created the Valarjar.

[Tripzzz]

The Black Empire had been defeated before Odyn created the Valarjar.

Ah, my mistake. It was Odyn and the Titan forged that defeated the Black Empire. The Valarjar are directly related to the Titan forged though.

[Aucald]

Ah, my mistake. It was Odyn and the Titan forged that defeated the Black Empire. The Valarjar are directly related to the Titan forged though.

Not really - the Valarjar are Light-infused but still essentially undead (e.g. stone/metallic bodies animated by Vrykul spirits) created by Odyn's Val'kyr heralds as a reward for honorable and valorous conduct in their life. The Valarjar are not themselves Titanforged, although they do receive new forms referred to as "Stormforged" if they don't become Val'kyr themselves.

[Tripzzz]

Not really - the Valarjar are Light-infused but still essentially undead (e.g. stone/metallic bodies animated by Vrykul spirits) created by Odyn's Val'kyr heralds as a reward for honorable and valorous conduct in their life. The Valarjar are not themselves Titanforged, although they do receive new forms referred to as "Stormforged" if they don't become Val'kyr themselves.

I mean directly related in the same way humans, gnomes, and dwarves are directly related to the Titan forged in the form of their origin story.

[Aucald]

I mean directly related in the same way humans, gnomes, and dwarves are directly related to the Titan forged in the form of their origin story.

Well, in that sense, yes. I thought you meant they were restored to original Titanforged status or close to it. The Valarjar seem to be lesser than the Titanforged of Azeroth's primordial days, but more numerous and also easier to replenish.

[Qualia]

The Valarjar seem to be lesser than the Titanforged of Azeroth's primordial days, but more numerous and also easier to replenish.

I think it's the other way around. Chronicle said that according to Odyn's plan, the spirit of death Vrykul would be given "new, mighty stormforged body" and then empowered & trained by Odyn. That should make them more powerful than their original selves (Titanforged Vrykul). The Curse of Flesh hasn't kicked in by then, so if the new body wasn't as powerful as the old one, the plan wouldn't have accomplish anything. I assume we still get only 1 Valarjar from 1 Vrykul soul so I don't think their number increased.

[Arrashi]

I'm actually a bit annoyed on behalf of my Demon Hunter - Odyn just insulted the hell out of me.

Odyns roasts are as flaming as his beard.

[Clone]

Odyn didn't have to create the Val'kyr, but he is the prime enforcer of the Titan's will on Azeroth. He is literally the hand of the gods of the Warcraft universe on Azeroth and as such his questions can't be questioned like that because how does one define deities' actions through the norms of mortals. Odyn is an extention of the creators' will and remains just that for as long as he keeps Azeroth's well-being in sight.

It is like asking why the Titans did something when they did; they did because they chose to. It is a divine intervention by the highest known authorities of creation that we're talking about here. Whatever they chose to do is the norm through which the universe is shaped. Their decisions are so much of a norm that they even installed a worldwide reboot system through Algalon incase things don't go as they had imagined.

The titans are shapers, their authority is baseless.

Since Helya herself was a god that disagreed with Odyn's method, I'd say the their norms are close to that of mortals.

[Magnagarde]

The titans are shapers, their authority is baseless.

Since Helya herself was a god that disagreed with Odyn's method, I'd say the their norms are close to that of mortals.

Their authority isn't baseless. They are the highest known authority in existence, untill the lore reveals a higher instance of authority. Helya was Odyn's servant, who is the Titans' servant.

[Irian]

A few things are interesting to me about this.

1. This is hilarious and I wish Odyn himself had wrote it. He did tell the tales, though, so that counts for something. It made me giggle heartily.

2. Odyn's other eye is inside the Shadowlands. Welp, it's not like it's a surprise but we all know what's coming. I hope this isn't supposed to be a plot twist because if so then it's the most obvious one possible.

[Clone]

Their authority isn't baseless. They are the highest known authority in existence, untill the lore reveals a higher instance of authority. Helya was Odyn's servant, who is the Titans' servant.

Says them. The titans didn't even create the universe, they just went around to shape it. So yeah, nobody put them in charge but themselves.

Helya also wasn't anymore of a servant to Odyn than the Keepers who told him creating val'kyr was a bad idea.

[Magnagarde]

Says them. The titans didn't even create the universe, they just went around to shape it. So yeah, nobody put them in charge but themselves.

Helya also wasn't anymore of a servant to Odyn than the Keepers who told him creating val'kyr was a bad idea.

No, we - as in our characters - didn't put them in charge. They've put themselves in charge, which is why they are in charge, simply because of their capabilities and power.

I never said they are the penultimate authority to ever be in existence, but they're the ultimate currently known authority. Titans are the highest authority of creation that is able to benevolently create and shape things according to current lore. When a higher authority is introduced, then it will take their place.

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Helya also wasn't anymore of a servant to Odyn than the Keepers who told him creating val'kyr was a bad idea.

What does that have to do with the fact that she was his servant though, because she was his servant.

It's like I say that lemons are yellow and you counter what I post by stating that cuccumbers are green, with neither one of us being wrong. We are talking about whether she was his servant or not and she was.

[Aucald]

I think it's the other way around. Chronicle said that according to Odyn's plan, the spirit of death Vrykul would be given "new, mighty stormforged body" and then empowered & trained by Odyn. That should make them more powerful than their original selves (Titanforged Vrykul). The Curse of Flesh hasn't kicked in by then, so if the new body wasn't as powerful as the old one, the plan wouldn't have accomplish anything. I assume we still get only 1 Valarjar from 1 Vrykul soul so I don't think their number increased.

Did Odyn's plan for the Valarjar predate the Curse of Flesh? I had thought the Curse was a product of the wars against the Black Empire - before the Valarjar were a plan, and that both the Dragon Aspects and the Valarjar and Halls of Valor were essentially a response to the results of the Curse and the outcomes of the war? I'll have to go back and check "Chronicle Vol. 1" to be sure.

The argument to me seemed to be one of quantity vs. quality, as it were. The Dragon Aspects were few but exceedingly powerful (making them tempting targets to corrupt) whereas the Valarjar would be many but individually less powerful, easier to control and to manage.

[Frontenac]

Did Odyn's plan for the Valarjar predate the Curse of Flesh? I had thought the Curse was a product of the wars against the Black Empire - before the Valarjar were a plan, and that both the Dragon Aspects and the Valarjar and Halls of Valor were essentially a response to the results of the Curse and the outcomes of the war? I'll have to go back and check "Chronicle Vol. 1" to be sure.

From what I read, it appears to be before the Curse of Flesh. Yogg-Saron created the Curse of Flesh while the Titan Keepers were in disarray because of the Pantheon's death. As far as I know, the Aspects were empowered by the Titans through the Keepers, after the Keepers asked them. Aman'thul blessed Nozdormu through Ra-den, Eonar blessed Alexstrasza and Ysera through Freya, etc. Therefore, the Pantheon was still alive when the Dragon Aspects were created. Since Odyn's plan was in reaction to the creation of the Aspects, Skyhold and the Valarjar were created before the Curse of Flesh. Loken was already under Yogg-Saron's influence when he killed Sif and fought Thorim, and that's when Yogg-Saron corrupted the Forge of Wills with the curse. Then Loken pushed Helya to rebellion and to imprison Odyn inside the Halls of Valor.

[MikeBogina]

Why would Odyn just go and tell lies?

The Naga are the Highborne who loved Azshara more than life itself, and yet we supposedly have groups of them breaking away from her. Odyn isn't really all the attractive and getting locked into a space bubble with him for even longer might piss some Vrykul off. Lie and say Helya's a bitch and get everyone to blame her.

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Did Odyn's plan for the Valarjar predate the Curse of Flesh? I had thought the Curse was a product of the wars against the Black Empire - before the Valarjar were a plan, and that both the Dragon Aspects and the Valarjar and Halls of Valor were essentially a response to the results of the Curse and the outcomes of the war?

The argument to me seemed to be one of quantity vs. quality, as it were. The Dragon Aspects were few but exceedingly powerful (making them tempting targets to corrupt) whereas the Valarjar would be many but individually less powerful, easier to control and to manage.

You probably remember Aquamonkey go on about how there was 2 Curse of Flesh events(haha he was so wrong) but there has always been one time and it was always after the Old Gods were imprisoned.

Aspects and Valarjar were created before the Curse of Flesh, but Helya sealing away the Halls of Valor basically saved them from the CoF. To my knowledge, there has been no new Valarjar since this because entry to the Halls of Valor have been cut off by Helya creating Helheim.

Now that the Halls of Valor are free and the forge that makes the Titanforge is reclaimed, Odyn should be able to pump out a greater army now.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I like where this is going.. Odyn is lying and writing his own propaganda. I hope they expand on this so we bring some retribution to the man...