Will WoW Ever See 13 Million Subs Again?

[Cerunnir]

Even if they have 500.000 subscribers, its a gigantic MMO. They probably won't even need 50.000 to keep it running. We are far from that point yet.

My guess for subscription atm would be anywhere from 3 to 8 million.

[IceMan1763]

So no actual source and unofficial census numbers? Gotcha. Bring an actual source to the table and we will discuss that one.

People on this site and others have already proven that, being "unofficial" aside, Warcraft Census numbers have correlated to subscriber numbers pretty accurately throughout its existence.

Like I said though, if you want to refute me just get Blizz to release sub numbers again and maybe you can prove me wrong. Until then, you're the one with no source, I'm the only one bringing ANYTHING to the table here.

[Celadir]

If MMOs became popular again, then it would be likely. MMOs have lost their allure to the crowd that prefers instant gratification and high action, like in FPSs and MOBAs.

Exactly this!

[Eleccybubb]

People on this site and others have already proven that, being "unofficial" aside, Warcraft Census numbers have correlated to subscriber numbers pretty accurately throughout its existence.

Like I said though, if you want to refute me just get Blizz to release sub numbers again and maybe you can prove me wrong. Until then, you're the one with no source, I'm the only one bringing ANYTHING to the table here.

An unofficial source. When you want to bring an actual official one to the table feel free to continue discussing with me but for now I guess there is no point responding to you.

Seems you are just looking for an excuse to bash WoW with your "unofficial sources"

@Jaylock

They did say it had gone back upto 10 mil btw with Legion so one can hope.

[Loeve]

Yes, if they make vanilla servers

[Deleted]

All these "There is 12 million subs, confirmed by blue" or "PR says 1x million!!!" and not a single source was linked.

If they truly had 13 million subs, why wouldnt they just be upfront about it? Why dont they boast about it?
The reason they stopped giving sub numbers was "conveniently" around time WoW lost 3 million subs in one quarter. If its truly back to Wrath numbers where is my mountain dew Warcraft edition?

Plus seeing all the pretty much ghost town servers, I highly highly doubt it has the same numbers as wrath has. Maybe all those 10 million players are in those 4 high pop realms?


As for OP:
I doubt it. Every gamer that has had even mild intrest on WoW has already played it in the past or do now. Its hard to get people back. They quit for reason and that reason will mostly stick to them for years. Specially if its "guild died, no friends play it anymore". Why play legion with no friends when your friends play Dota 2 or LoL and you have fun there? Yeah, you dont.

Plus F2P mmos are more intresting now and easier to jump in with friends than trying to convince even fraction of 10 friends to "sub back to 12 year old MMO"

[Eleccybubb]

All these "There is 12 million subs, confirmed by blue" or "PR says 1x million!!!" and not a single source was linked.

If they truly had 13 million subs, why wouldnt they just be upfront about it? Why dont they boast about it?
The reason they stopped giving sub numbers was "conveniently" around time WoW lost 3 million subs in one quarter. If its truly back to Wrath numbers where is my mountain dew Warcraft edition?


As for OP:
I doubt it. Every gamer that has had even mild intrest on WoW has already played it in the past or do now. Its hard to get people back. They quit for reason and that reason will mostly stick to them for years. Specially if its "guild died, no friends play it anymore". Why play legion with no friends when your friends play Dota 2 or LoL and you have fun there? Yeah, you dont.

Plus F2P mmos are more intresting now and easier to jump in with friends than trying to convince 10 friends to "sub back to 12 year old MMO"

Really? Because name me one F2P MMO with more players than WoW has subs. And don't pull that whole "total accounts created" wool over my eyes either. Also a lot of them are P2W trash.

[Deleted]

Really? Because name me one F2P MMO with more players than WoW has subs. Also a lot of them are P2W trash.

That is no the point. Even if people end up playing F2P mmo for few weeks, its still lower cap to think "maybe I will try it" than WoW has.

Ask 10 people this:
"Hey wanna come play WoW with me? Just buy 15 dollar sub and 30/40 dollar expansion so we get to raid again" - pretty sure at least 9 of them says "you cant be serious bro?" and 1 says "I'll think about it" and goes offline for weeks.

Then ask them to "download this free mmo and lets try it out" and few of them say "eh I guess, its free after all".

They will go thro maybe 5 mmos and sure they wont play them a lot, but they still wont go back to wow or start wow from level 1 even tho it could give more "fun" or time spent than those 5.

Also "P2W trash?" What is this? 2008?

[Eleccybubb]

That is no the point. Even if people end up playing F2P mmo for few weeks, its still lower cap to think "maybe I will try it" than WoW has.

Ask 10 people this:
"Hey wanna come play WoW with me? Just buy 15 dollar sub and 30/40 dollar expansion so we get to raid again" - pretty sure at least 9 of them says "you cant be serious bro?" and 1 says "I'll think about it" and goes offline for weeks.

Then ask them to "download this free mmo and lets try it out" and few of them say "eh I guess, its free after all".

Also "P2W trash?" What is this? 2008?

So the majority of F2P MMOs aren't either freemium or have p2w systems built in? Also how do you know what 10 people want? Oh sorry my bad someone who thinks they speak for the MMO community as per usual.

Guarantee me 9/10 say no. Oh wait you can't.

You have no argument. You purely speculated that people would rather try F2P than pay to play a game. Stick to speculating and stop trying to present it as a fact.

[pateuvasiliu]

I could see 13 million subs for a game like WoW 2. It would be a fresh new start with no one knowing the landscape and world and environments

All new places to discover on the scale that was vanilla WoW

Nah. You'll never get that hype back. Vanilla WoW:

1. Came on the back of one of the best RTS in history, Warcraft 3, with a shitton of people hyped to see Arthas, Illidan, Thrall, Jaina and Cairne in action again.

2. For a lot of people WoW was their first MMO and hardcore online experience.

3. Vanilla offered a feeling of new. You can't make WoW 2 with that feeling unless you do it on another planet, since Azeroth would be the same planet, with the same areas and the same races. And if you do it on another planet is it even Warcraft anymore?

4. Vanilla was imbalanced as shit and most people liked it because they didn't know better. Seriously from a gameplay perspective it's a mess. You had dungeon gear that was massively better than epic gear from raids, you had useless specs that would not be accepted in a raid ( for instance a shaman could only go Resto in raids, the other 2 specs were trash ), pvp required 24/7 nolife grinding and so on.


The only thing that could give Blizzard those numbers back is if they made a server for Vanilla/TBC/WotLK and started closing private servers so that people flock back to Retail.

[Deleted]

No, its just not culturally relevant as it once used to be, at least among geek circles.

Blizzard could release the most packed, greatest Xpac, and while the hardcores will rave about, for the casual players its just another Xpac. Hell most people do not even know what number xpac this game is on now.


A hypothetical WoW 2, with a brand new engine, that panders to nostalgia but also makes huge changes to the MMO genre, when marketed right, yeah that could sell 15+ million. They would have the old fans, as well as a fresh push for players who never were never interested.

[caervek]

Seems you are just looking for an excuse to bash WoW with your "unofficial sources"

Actually he's providing substantiated/verifiable facts from a reputable source, you're just poo pooing them because they don't come from the source you want.

[Deleted]

So the majority of F2P MMOs aren't either freemium or have p2w systems built in? Also how do you know what 10 people want? Oh sorry my bad someone who thinks they speak for the MMO community as per usual.

Guarantee me 9/10 say no. Oh wait you can't.

You have no argument. You purely speculated that people would rather try F2P than pay to play a game. Stick to speculating and stop trying to present it as a fact.

I think you are purposely ignoring my argument here to make yours sound better
its ok, this has been the case in this forum and specially in this thread anyway, it starts to stick with peoples attidute.

Again:
Its easier to get people try F2P mmos than its to get them to play WoW again (or from start). At this point, lot of people have already game they have invested lot to and leaving those games wouldnt really work out. LoL skins, Dota stuff, Overwatch and what have you.

People want "free" stuff. They will try "free" stuff more than they would paid game. Getting 9 friends to drop 50 dollars into a game just because "friend said its good" might work but it also easier to ask them download LoL and try getting them into that. Because "free".

But sure, lets take the numbers I use literally and go shout on rooftops that "I cant prove 9 people out of 10 dont wanna play wow".

Edit: As for people who cry "if they bring vanilla back". Legion has lot of vanilla-like features in it. And every time they were added people have been crying rivers of tears. Going back 10 years wont work in this game.

[Eleccybubb]

Actually he's providing substantiated/verifiable facts from a UNOFFICIAL source, you're just poo pooing them because they don't come from the source you want.

Cool and when it's an official source maybe I'll take the person seriously. We good?

- - - Updated - - -

I think you are purposely ignoring my argument here to make yours sound better
its ok, this has been the case in this forum and specially in this thread anyway, it starts to stick with peoples attidute.

Again:
Its easier to get people try F2P mmos than its to get them to play WoW again (or from start). At this point, lot of people have already game they have invested lot to and leaving those games wouldnt really work out. LoL skins, Dota stuff, Overwatch and what have you.

People want "free" stuff. They will try "free" stuff more than they would paid game. Getting 9 friends to drop 50 dollars into a game just because "friend said its good" might work but it also easier to ask them download LoL and try getting them into that. Because "free".

But sure, lets take the numbers I use literally and go shout on rooftops that "I cant prove 9 people out of 10 dont wanna play wow".

Why are you comparing MOBAS to MMOs? MOBAS are easier to get into for starters. If you want to actually compare something to WoW then compare F2P MMOs.

[caervek]

Cool and when it's an official source maybe I'll take the person seriously.

Oh I don't care, I was just pointing out what was going on in case anyone skim reading the thread thought your were trashing the facts from a viewpoint of knowledge not ignorance.

[pateuvasiliu]

Half of that 100M players in League are twinks or people that got banned on their main account and play on an alt account lmao

[Deleted]

Why are you comparing MOBAS to MMOs? MOBAS are easier to get into for starters. If you want to actually compare something to WoW then compare F2P MMOs.

Thanks for enforcing my point of Mobas having easier to get into. Thats exactly the point I was saying.

You cannot ignore mobas and only count F2P mmos as direct competition anymore. Thats not how these things work since MMOs are not the huge massive genre anymore. If MMO's were number one genre everyone wanted to get into, you could easily compare just mmos alone.

But now with raise of Mobas, F2P stuff, some raise on FPS games.. WoW doesnt compete with Gw2 for example, it competes with OW, LoL, Dota and whatever is hot right now. LoL players are not exclusively moba players.
People spending time on different games, mostly free, eats up potential players for WoW. Someone investing time and money on LoL skins are more likely to not quit LoL for something like Dota because investment creates bond.

[Eleccybubb]

Thanks for enforcing my point of Mobas having easier to get into. Thats exactly the point I was saying.

You cannot ignore mobas and only count F2P mmos as direct competition anymore. Thats not how these things work since MMOs are not the huge massive genre anymore. If MMO's were number one genre everyone wanted to get into, you could easily compare just mmos alone.

But now with raise of Mobas, F2P stuff, some raise on FPS games.. WoW doesnt compete with Gw2 for example, it competes with OW, LoL, Dota and whatever is hot right now. LoL players are not exclusively moba players.
People spending time on different games, mostly free, eats up potential players for WoW. Someone investing time and money on LoL skins are more likely to not quit LoL for something like Dota because investment creates bond.

Ok and? Compare WoW to other MMOs rather than different genres.

Stop comparing MMOs to MOBAS or you have no argument. Want to compare WoW then bring examples of F2P MMOs in. If you keep doing this then I see no reason continuing with you.

[murbaez]

They could if they remake the game...make a WoW 2 with improved graphics, better voice comm, everyone starting from level 1 [but still allowing you to bring transmogs and other stuff into new game, but nothing that would mess with economy i.e gold becomes useless] Then make it work between all consoles. Lower the monthly subscription or remove all together and add stuff to cash shop for revenue.

But that is if they make a new game altogether. With the way current wow is, Legion was pretty much the best shot they had at it. They would have to do something sooo crazy and well done that it would literally be the end of WoW altogether. They would probably need to announce that it would be the last expansion but plan on supporting it with new content every 2-3 months for a 3-5 year period until the end of WoW.

[Deleted]

Ok and? Compare WoW to other MMOs rather than different genres.

Stop comparing MMOs to MOBAS or you have no argument. Want to compare WoW then bring examples of F2P MMOs in. If you keep doing this then I see no reason continuing with you.

Then maybe its best to stop with constant trivial objections and end it here if comparing huge playerbase to another huge playerbase is "wrong and bad".