[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Malmmoc]

What are you referring to?

It was said that that buff was sustained for a minute. He is asking if that was after the nerf to ED. With hero and incarnation it probably was. At least that's my experience.

[Traxion]

A minute post nerf?

45 seconds on my Trilliax kill last week. Maybe a little overstated but 1 whispers proc near the end would have increased that to 55 seconds.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=224706

[Zan15]

i just posted some feedback on the moonkin festival and it had nothing to do with the festival...

feel free to stop by and tell them sad moonkin who are ignored can't have a happy moonkin festival...

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754526560

[Polarthief]

i just posted some feedback on the moonkin festival and it had nothing to do with the festival...

feel free to stop by and tell them sad moonkin who are ignored can't have a happy moonkin festival...

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754526560

It is kinda funny they have a whole festival to our spec and they can't even listen to players playing the spec.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- - - Updated - - -

Hey look a new PTR build!... with nothing for our class (not even spec, but CLASS) but tooltip changes!

[Ifeanychukwu]

It is kinda funny they have a whole festival to our spec and they can't even listen to players playing the spec.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- - - Updated - - -

Hey look a new PTR build!... with nothing for our class (not even spec, but CLASS) but tooltip changes!

I don't fucking get it man. They're practically redesigning the warlock specs, the best performing ranged currently and the previous patch.... but boomkins get... nothing? Fuck man, this is getting frustrating.

[Polarthief]

I don't fucking get it man. They're practically redesigning the warlock specs, the best performing ranged currently and the previous patch.... but boomkins get... nothing? Fuck man, this is getting frustrating.

Because they buffed one of our spells and nerfed one of our talents (and I guess making Sunfire trigger W&W as a bugfix) and think their job is done, idk.

Meanwhile, look at all the spec feedback threads they're commenting on while all we've ever gotten was "we're buffing W&W because we realized after the ENTIRE FUCKING PTR CYCLE that a 25% buff to Moonfire's direct damage after casting it 5 times, was garbage".

[Glurp]

My main issue with Moonkin currently is that ED Moonkin is one of the most complex and punishing ranged specs currently and performs horribly for the complexity level it has. Why play Moonkin when you could play Frost/Affliction and perform better without trying. We've seen Feral get some decent buffs recently to reward people who can master the complexity of the spec, would be nice to see the same for Moonkin.

I'd also be entirely in favour of the ED mechanic being scrapped and having something replace it because it's pretty shitty having to fuck with your custom lag tolerance just to be able to play a spec properly.

[Zan15]

hahah i love those buffs to specs like enh shaman, unholy, etc etc. just a few of the specs that on a few fights actually we beat at single target.

i think we are starting to get the hint now....

[turlockmike]

My main issue with Moonkin currently is that ED Moonkin is one of the most complex and punishing ranged specs currently and performs horribly for the complexity level it has. Why play Moonkin when you could play Frost/Affliction and perform better without trying. We've seen Feral get some decent buffs recently to reward people who can master the complexity of the spec, would be nice to see the same for Moonkin.

I'd also be entirely in favour of the ED mechanic being scrapped and having something replace it because it's pretty shitty having to fuck with your custom lag tolerance just to be able to play a spec properly.

The moment I get the other two good legendaries I will drop ED. I have decent lag so I can maintain the buff even with only 30.5% haste, but it takes a ton of concentration and focus, whereas, like you said, I can log onto my mage and basically faceroll the same dps.

[Lahis]

The moment I get the other two good legendaries I will drop ED. I have decent lag so I can maintain the buff even with only 30.5% haste, but it takes a ton of concentration and focus, whereas, like you said, I can log onto my mage and basically faceroll the same dps.

What other good legendaries there are? Especially for ST/Priority target fights.

[Polarthief]

My main issue with Moonkin currently is that ED Moonkin is one of the most complex and punishing ranged specs currently and performs horribly for the complexity level it has. Why play Moonkin when you could play Frost/Affliction and perform better without trying. We've seen Feral get some decent buffs recently to reward people who can master the complexity of the spec, would be nice to see the same for Moonkin.

I'd also be entirely in favour of the ED mechanic being scrapped and having something replace it because it's pretty shitty having to fuck with your custom lag tolerance just to be able to play a spec properly.

ED is not that complex or hard at all, it's just very punishing when you have to move, if you fuck up, or you get the tiniest iota of lag during your ED. To be fair though, Surgeweaving (as Blizzard called it) was never even meant to be a thing, they actually wanted us to hit 100 AsP and just dump a few Starsurges into an enemy, making the legendary vastly weaker. If they really wanted that, they should have just reduced the cost of Starsurge (and Starfall IMO) by 10 or something.

Regardless, we shouldn't need a legendary on top of a very weird, punishing, and highly unintended rotation to be even remotely competitive, and even then, we're still not that great. On top of which, we also have to sacrifice ALL AoE to get there while plenty of melee specs dish out some amazing AoE and don't suffer at all as a result. One of the biggest issues of Moonkin is that you either have to pick ST or AoE due to how Astral Power works. There is no middle ground since you either Starsurge or Starfall. Making legendaries, talents, and traits that only affect one is quite an issue, since it's also hard to generate AsP for AoE.

I'd almost like to see Starfall become a mini-cooldown (~45-60s), and they could make Moon/Sunfire ticks reduce the cooldown or something, so when you actually use it for AoE, you can keep using it like crazy if you maintain DoTs. Maybe make the cooldown longer so it's rarely used on ST.

So here's what I'm thinking:
- Keep SS, SW, and LS how they are (maybe buff their damage output for ST reasons).
- Starfall become a short cooldown that costs nothing (AsP only spent on Starsurge now; dunno about StFl and FoE since they're never used anyway).
- Moonfire/Sunfire ticks actively reduce the cooldown of Starfall (more DoTs = more Starfalls).
- AsP no longer has to be fought between SS and SF, and getting your resource for AoE is no longer difficult (spamming DoTs gets you so little unless you get lucky with ShS procs, and spamming Solar Wrath for AoE filler feels extremely awkward).
- Starfall can now be used on single-target as a mobility cooldown/a slight damage increase if you know no adds will be coming soon; damage output on ST will be fairly low; Echoing Stars could be buffed quite a bit to increase low-target AoE output of it.

Until Starsurge and Starfall become unlinked from the same resource, we will forever have this issue of ST vs AoE. Regarding ST damage, it just needs a nice buff to the fillers, or hell, increase their AsP generation (make BotA baseline, so SW is 10 and LS is 15).

[Myztikrice]

The forums blew up when they tried making ED more reasonable so you're gonna have to change the Balance community's perception of ED before Blizzard does

[Tyze]

If they really wanted that, they should have just reduced the cost of Starsurge (and Starfall IMO) by 10 or something.

I had this thought aswell. ED could probably just reduce cost of Starsurge by 10.

I dont think its good from the devs to give a legendary that completely change the way the class should be played (maybe stat changes etc). Also we need latency addons for maximal use. I think its terrible how it works.

[Zan15]

i just posted some feedback on the moonkin festival and it had nothing to do with the festival...

feel free to stop by and tell them sad moonkin who are ignored can't have a happy moonkin festival...

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754526560

lol shocked the post lasted even the few hours it did.
feel free to post your frustrations

[GhostFoot]

Anyone had a chance to scan the ToS trinkets? Aside from tuning, they don't look well itemized for boomies, berhaps the arcane owl one. Might have to hope for annocrystal even more.

[Bugg]

My problems and ED post 7.2 have been and still are so bad that I have​ considered abandoning it or the moonkin. It's very frustrating. I barely have 30% haste with food, maybe if you are better geared the As windows are more forgiving.

[Polarthief]

The forums blew up when they tried making ED more reasonable so you're gonna have to change the Balance community's perception of ED before Blizzard does

"More reasonable" was "reducing the duration to 2 seconds". This doesn't really do much and it doesn't buff your first (and only half-buffs your second) Starsurge(s). It was a VERY minor gain. That said, a flat reduction of the cost of Starsurge to 30 would be quite nice, and hell, if they wanted to keep Surgeweaving, they could also make it the following instead:

"The cost of Starsurge is reduced by 10. In addition, casting Starsurge further reduces the cost of Starsurge by 4 for 4 seconds". This way, people who like Surgweaving can continue to do so for a small gain while people who don't really care for it (like me, who just wants to Memekin the world) can still benefit from it. This also breaks a horrible anti-synergy ED has with OI, and makes it so you get the buff from one Starsurge, not 2. It just adds options.

But let's be honest, the devs aren't listening despite what they say, so whatever.

[Lahis]

The forums blew up when they tried making ED more reasonable so you're gonna have to change the Balance community's perception of ED before Blizzard does

ED is the only way we can have remotively competitive ST damage. Of course people will be mad when it's nerfed.

For all I care, they could remove the damn helm if they fixed our ST damage in exchange.

[Malmmoc]

ED is the only way we can have remotively competitive ST damage.

I agree, in spirit, but last week I played at the 97th percentile for my ilvl, on a single target fight, and came 8th on our meter (everyone has roughly the same gear). That's with ED and IFE. 97th % is the best I got... 8th...

What is that phrase? Oh ya, feels bad man!

[Myztikrice]

"More reasonable" was "reducing the duration to 2 seconds". This doesn't really do much and it doesn't buff your first (and only half-buffs your second) Starsurge(s). It was a VERY minor gain. That said, a flat reduction of the cost of Starsurge to 30 would be quite nice, and hell, if they wanted to keep Surgeweaving, they could also make it the following instead:

"The cost of Starsurge is reduced by 10. In addition, casting Starsurge further reduces the cost of Starsurge by 4 for 4 seconds". This way, people who like Surgweaving can continue to do so for a small gain while people who don't really care for it (like me, who just wants to Memekin the world) can still benefit from it. This also breaks a horrible anti-synergy ED has with OI, and makes it so you get the buff from one Starsurge, not 2. It just adds options.

But let's be honest, the devs aren't listening despite what they say, so whatever.

It brings the item closer to the stated design (casting more Starsurges together while leaving a long enough window to account for latency). Raid encounters aren't suited to turreting.