Oregon Man Fined $500 for Criticizing Red-light Cameras

[Warpaladin]

Thought I should share something interesting that I saw.

[Eldar45]

I'd almost think this has to be fake, but from a state like Oregon I can believe it. Noone has the right to stop anyone from speaking their mind unless its on your private property, and the government doesn't have the right to censor anyone or anything ever at all. Its almost a cliche now, but it needs to be said: "I support Freedom of Speech, but..." isn't freedom of speech, its censoring speech.

[Stelio Kontos]

Not surprised it was Oregon.

Wouldn't shock me to see the same happen here in WA either. They already made it so you can't challenge certain traffic tickets, like speeding in a school zone.

[alzoron]

They actually fined him for calling himself an engineer without being registered as such and that's illegal in Oregon.

[Garnier Fructis]

I'd almost think this has to be fake, but from a state like Oregon I can believe it. Noone has the right to stop anyone from speaking their mind unless its on your private property, and the government doesn't have the right to censor anyone or anything ever at all. Its almost a cliche now, but it needs to be said: "I support Freedom of Speech, but..." isn't freedom of speech, its censoring speech.

I would disagree; if someone is intentionally trying to deceive people then they should be penalized for that.

Setting that aside, this guy is being fined for practicing engineering without a license. I think that's a major stretch. He certainly did some type of engineering research which seems to be actually useful and of interest. I mean, shit, if doing engineering research and communicating it to the public without a license qualifies as illegally practicing engineering, then basically every undergraduate doing engineering research in Oregon suddenly became criminals.

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They actually fined him for calling himself an engineer without being registered as such and that's illegal in Oregon.

From the article, that seemed like a side issue. Their main gripe was that he communicated his findings to the public.

[Stelio Kontos]

They actually fined him for calling himself an engineer without being registered as such and that's illegal in Oregon.

Interesting, since the video states they told him it is illegal to even critique traffic lights without a license.

Sounds spurious, especially considering they've fined others for criticizing them too.

[Matchles]

Interesting, since the video states they told him it is illegal to even critique traffic lights without a license.

Sounds spurious, especially considering they've fined others for criticizing them too.

You are allowed to criticize, you aren't allowed to claim expertise that you don't have. Change "engineer" to "attorney" and tell me you still feel it is unfair to call yourself one while giving testimony.

[Video Games]

Don't worry bros, trimet has got your back.

[P for Pancetta]

You are allowed to criticize, you aren't allowed to claim expertise that you don't have. Change "engineer" to "attorney" and tell me you still feel it is unfair to call yourself one while giving testimony.

But he does have the expertise

[Matchles]

But he does have the expertise

Not a license by the state. I finished law school but if I hadn't passed the bar exam I couldn't call myself an attorney in the state.

[alt-ithist]

Not a license by the state. I finished law school but if I hadn't passed the bar exam I couldn't call myself an attorney in the state.

Not the same thing. If you are lawyer that passed the bar in another country, you can absolutely call yourself a lawyer.

While you couldn't practice in this country till you pass it's bar, you could still call yourself a lawyer.

[Garnier Fructis]

Whether or not he can call himself an engineer is, once again, not the main thing he got fined for.

[Forogil]

You are allowed to criticize, you aren't allowed to claim expertise that you don't have. Change "engineer" to "attorney" and tell me you still feel it is unfair to call yourself one while giving testimony.

That is directly contradicted by the video (which might be biased) - if you have a statement from Oregon claiming otherwise provide a link.

And he is actually an engineer (with a degree it says), and calculating the speed of a vehicle when decelerating doesn't require specializing into traffic engineering - or even a degree at all.

Vehicles work similarly all other the world, and a lot of vehicles are designed by engineers who don't have a degree in traffic engineering.

[God Save The King]

Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence.

His life nor liberty was not taken.

[Forogil]

Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence.

His life nor liberty was not taken.

His money was taken.

Are you fine with papers being fined 500$ per newspaper for practicing journalism without a state-license?

[Matchles]

That is directly contradicted by the video (which might be biased) - if you have a statement from Oregon claiming otherwise provide a link.

And he is actually an engineer (with a degree it says), and calculating the speed of a vehicle when decelerating doesn't require specializing into traffic engineering - or even a degree at all.

Vehicles work similarly all other the world, and a lot of vehicles are designed by engineers who don't have a degree in traffic engineering.

Have a read of the case.

http://ij.org/wp-content/uploads/201...4769xA6322.pdf


He was warned, he was pointed toward the law governing the unlicensed practice of engineer, he continued to do so and try to invent reasons why the law shouldn't apply to him.

[God Save The King]

His money was taken.

Are you fine with papers being fined 500$ per newspaper for practicing journalism without a state-license?

That sounds like an improvement, especially if they can impose regulations, like they used before Nixon/Reagan got rid of them and helped to lead to the hyperpartisan radicalization of the American populace.

Property being seized (in this case money) is not censorship.

[Matchles]

Not the same thing. If you are lawyer that passed the bar in another country, you can absolutely call yourself a lawyer.

While you couldn't practice in this country till you pass it's bar, you could still call yourself a lawyer.

The guy isn't a licensed engineer in ANY jurisdiction.

[Garnier Fructis]

Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence.

His life nor liberty was not taken.

In this case, the speech was basically independent engineering research that he shared with the public. The consequences are stupid. If you stretch their reasoning just a little bit further, then suddenly every undergraduate in the state whose worked on engineering research projects at universities have suddenly committed civil offenses.

It's also a bastardization of the spirit of the law. You don't want people doing actual engineering work without a license because that work tends not to be sound, and can be dangerous to the public. Considering the government there is the only entity with the authority and capability to implement this work, there's no way that what he's doing is any harm to the public.

It really just seems like they don't want to reconsider yellow light times and are pissed off that the public might ask them to review it because of him. And subsequently they're using this as convenient stick to smack him away with.

[Forogil]

You are allowed to criticize, you aren't allowed to claim expertise that you don't have. Change "engineer" to "attorney" and tell me you still feel it is unfair to call yourself one while giving testimony.

The story indicates that he wrote to complain and suggest a change - not that he was giving a testimony.

If he had been an expert witness and giving a testimony under false pretenses, or had tried to get the job for designing the traffic lights from the city with false credentials then your explanation would have some credibility.

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The guy isn't a licensed engineer in ANY jurisdiction.

That is because many (I would guess most) jurisdictions don't require a license to practice engineering.

Most engineers have degrees - as this guy; some get hired before getting the degree and can still practice engineering.