Legion feels like an Alliance expansion

[Toppy]

Oh no, heavens forbid we have an Alliance expansion for once.

Vanilla: Both
BC: Both
LK: Alliance
Cata: Horde
MoP: Both, but more Horde (Garrosh and all)
WoD: Super duper fucking Horde
Legion: Both, leaning Alliance



Lol that is NOT the point.

No of course its not the point, then it wouldn't agree with your clearly biased view.

Just because the primary enemy is a race does not mean the expansion is about that races faction. WoD had very very little to do with the Horde as a faction. If anything it cheapened old Orc lore with retcons while enriching the Draenei one with a much needed boost.

MoP was not in any way Horde centric either. It went out of its way to show that Garrosh was NOT Horde and gave Alliance and Horde both equal treatment as far as story development is concerned.

WotLK was definitely more Alliance centered with the Horde and Forsaken kinda off to the wayside but still important. The story was at its core the culmination of the old human campaign and cemented the place of the new human king who had been lost for so long. It even brought back Muradin in a rare case of blizzard remembering that the Alliance is more than just humans.

Likewise Cata was clearly horde centered to an extreme, which blizzard even admits. Mostly becuase they finished Horde zones first then rushed the alliance ones and left them unfinished.

Please do not confuse "That race is bad" with "The faction that race is part of is all blizzard cares about"

[Whitedragon]

Guys just stop saying that those other expansions you listed are horde centric they aren't even horde centric they are like non horde and are only centric to several races in the horde I have yet to see an expansion that has the bloodhoof tauren making a huge presence or yet the darkspear trolls

I keep seeing this counterpoint, yet the OP's complaint of legion was he had to help one Alliance faction leader who was helping a neutral party in one zone.... making it Alliance heavy....

[Nize]

Yeah I don't buy the Horde complaints about this right now.

WoD definitely leaned Horde. While you can give the argument that Draenei culture matched Orc culture in this xpac (I don't), we did receive a big cutscene and story thread with Thrall and Garrosh ending a story that has been building up for expansions.

MoP definitely leaned Horde. Sure, Alliance probably looked like the winners here, but also had a fairly boring storyline all throughout. 5.3, in particular, felt epic to do as a member of the Horde. 5.1 and 5.2 began establishing the Blood Elves in a real nice manner, while the mirror was pretty much just Kirin Tor being Kirin Tor *yawn*

Cata felt fairly even, outside of its main hero, who acted on behalf of the Earthen Ring rather than Horde. So really, it went either way here. Leveling zone quality favored the Horde a tad bit, but I won't pick on those.

I play both sides, so I don't care which side gets more story so long as it feels right rather than forced. It's going to be incredibly disappointing when Blizz forces something in for the Horde and it winds up hurting the story just for the sake of "faction balance", just like it would trying to force a story into MoP just to balance that side.

[Mercane]

Thinly veiled alliance bashing thread because LOL 4m AP.

[Toppy]

I keep seeing this counterpoint, yet the OP's complaint of legion was he had to help one Alliance faction leader who was helping a neutral party in one zone.... making it Alliance heavy....

Well the Velen questline was clearly Alliance centered, as well was the Anduin one, and even Val'shara which was all about Malfurion. I wouldnt yet call Legion all about Alliance, but it currently is leaning far more towards it, since Horde has well... gotten nothing outside the opening (which was comparable to alliance) and the Sylvanas questline which also had an Alliance parallel (and shat all over prior mentioned Broken Shore opening).

Part of the issue is that Baine was supposed to have a questline in Highmountain but it was cut late into development, and nothing was ever put in place to fill in the hole and make the Horde feel like they actually belong. Worse still that they are required to follow a human and night elf - neutral ones yes but human and night elf regardless - as the main driving force of 7.2 with NO member of race of the Horde being featured in any sort of prominence (whereas alliance has, adding to illidan and Khadgar, two more with Maiev and Velen).

[God Save The King]

Probably because the last two were heavily horde centric. I recall huge Horde story progression in MoP with Garrosh/Vol'Jin, the Barrens pre-patch to SoO, etc. WoD was one giant fan service to the Horde, going back to their roots and seeing the original leaders.

Even Cataclysm had a lot of Horde elements with the progression of the Garrosh story, and the Thrall stories, plus the ex-Horde leader stood alongside the aspects to bring down Deathwing.

[Benitora]

Vanilla: Both factions where represented, though no fancy cinematics to show it.

TBC: Leans a bit towards the horde in terms of Lore, since Thrall meets Garrosh, Rexxar meets his people and we basically help fix the Blood elf addiction to magic by restoring their fountain of power.

WOTLK: Both are represented here, though in terms of lore characters and how they evolved over the expansion, I'd say Horde get a slight upper hand there with the interaction between Garrosh and Varok.

Cataclysm: Heavy on Thrall in this one. Garrosh being warchief, a lot of focus on lore in regards to the Horde and some of the leaders, such as the whole Tauren ordeal. Alliance gets the Glory for having a ship capable of catching up to Deathwing, otherwise, not much to speak of.

MoP: Good progression on both factions here. Varian get a much needed progress to his character, and we get some more with Anduin standing up to big scary orc Garrosh with the Sacred bell quest. Of course, a lot of Horde lore here with them practicially going to a civil war with themselves as well, though overall, I'd say this expansion had it equal.

WoD: Orcs, orcs everywhere. Though it's not the same horde as our universes horde, it's still a lot of Horde. Butchered expansion in terms of lore in any case, as they missed a lot of oppurtinites here which could have been great. Only good thing to come out of it, where a Gul'dan which where fun to watch in the cinematics.

Legion: It's equal. We get more Anduin lore, with the cinematic and progression to his character, which is great for Alliance. (Though I would love to see more of the Council of Three hammers and Mekkatorque)
But Horde need some in regards to Sylvanas, the legacy of Vol'jin of what he actually fucking did as Warchief, more on Baine and the Highmountain Tauren and them electing a proper race leader for Troll and Orc. (Though in the latter, Varok or Eitrigg might fit the slot there)
And for gods sakes, give Lor'themar something to do, rather than look girlish in Silvermoon...and with the Revamp of his model, give Gallywix something as well.

[rayden54]

Why do people get so upset if one side has a bit of more focus in an expansion. It's still a WoW Game.

No. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear that it's a Horde vs Alliance game (even when that doesn't make sense). They've made faction loyalty a huge part of their marketing. It shouldn't be surprising when that carries over into their perception of the game itself.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Ok what about mop...

You mean the expansion that finished up with a massive raid by the Alliance on a Horde capital city, and who's every step revolved around the prince of Stormwind?

...and cata do those count?

You mean the expansion that focused on both factions just about equally?

Or BC?

You mean the expansion that focused on both factions just about equally?

[Obelisk Kai]

I have to disagree with the sentiment in this thread.

I don't think this is either an Alliance OR a Horde expansion. It's the most detached from the faction conflict I can recall and that is a pretty deliberate decision on Blizzard's part.

What it probably means is that the Alliance and Horde will be at each other's throat next time around as part of the tools used to drive a more Azeroth bound narrative, but this time I can't think anyone can claim this expansion as their expansion and not the other faction's. Anyone who does so is just reaching...or looking for an excuse to complain.

[Corseth]

I think when people say they want 'Horde story' they mean stories about Horde characters and factions, not races. That is, the Iron Horde from WoD is a story about the Iron Horde, not the Horde player faction.

The big thing is that Vol'jin lays a challenge to Sylvanus that equates to 'time to man up and be a leader for once'. She shows up briefly doing some sketchy stuff, then just... vanishes from the plot. Not some plot where she goes into hiding after the messup... the plot just stops mentioning her at all. She's gotta be 'still here' because her voiceover is used for the pvp world quests, but, there's no concept at all of what she's doing or where she is. While she's hardly the most popular warchief amongst the horde player base, I think most of us at least want to know WTF is going on with the faction leader?

The problem with the complete LACK of presence is there's no interpretation of it at all. Maybe she is warchiefing super hard. Maybe she is still skulking in the shadows. We don't know, and they (Bliz) at any time could decide either option. And the less we see of her the more it's going to feel like a weak ass-pull when they do drop that shoe.

I've been around since vanilla. I don't think there's really been /faction/ favoritism, so much as character favoritism ("Green Jesus" is a phrase for a reason). Right now the interesting and active non-neutral characters are all Alliance side. I like Anduin and I hope they take him along his Priest-style route, as it would be interesting to see that develop. But seriously, they made a huge point of building Sylvanus up /and are completely letting that thread die on the shelf/. You CAN'T wait forever after building up like that, because the audience will lose interest and forget and find any later appearance to feel weak and shoe-horned in.

Bliz started a 'hype train' on Sylvanus's looming 'crisis point' on whether she rises above herself, or continues to fall... and the train never pulled into station. I think that's what fundamentally bothers more than any 'fairness' of how many times characters show up.

[KrazyK923]

You mean the expansion that finished up with a massive raid by the Alliance on a Horde capital city, and who's every step revolved around the prince of Stormwind?

'cept the Horde were also there...and it wasn't the Horde capital in that moment. It was the True Horde's. Furthermore Anduin only shows up in Jade Forest, a single quest in Kun-Lai, a single moment in Krasarand and then in 5.1. Of course that was the Alliance's part of the story so I have no idea why you're bringing that up since the Horde see Anduin less than even that small amount.

[Amonthar]

I didn't play WoD but I did play MoP. MoP felt like it was entirely Horde centric to me.

[Whitedragon]

Time for an Undercity upgrade/revamp to match Stormwind, Equalitah!

We would love to give UC an upgrade, sadly as you can tell the real priority should be Org that poor city needs an upgrade more then any other.

[Melusine]

Awww..... Cataclysm was all about Thrall, Mists was all about the Horde insurrection to restore the Horde, with help from the Alliance. Draenor was all orcs, and NOW you feel a little underappreciated in Legion, because, unlike the last 3 expacs isn't all about the Horde?!?!

I don't even knw what to say here that won't get me blasted for flaming or something, but hey, you guys might want to focus on your Warchief and the shit she's gonna do.

[Toppy]

Probably because the last two were heavily horde centric. I recall huge Horde story progression in MoP with Garrosh/Vol'Jin, the Barrens pre-patch to SoO, etc. WoD was one giant fan service to the Horde, going back to their roots and seeing the original leaders.

Even Cataclysm had a lot of Horde elements with the progression of the Garrosh story, and the Thrall stories, plus the ex-Horde leader stood alongside the aspects to bring down Deathwing.

Yes, WoD was so Horde centric. Like when Thrall killed the prior expansions villain and when Vol'Jin... named a faction after him self and when ... um... nevermind. Horde didnt do anything in WoD aside from move Thrall from point A to point B while remarking how the Draenor Orcs were so different from the Horde ones. Meanwhile the Draenei were drowning in much much needed lore exposure.

But MoP! When Horde stole the bell! And Alliance thwarted... oh thats both doing something. Or when Horde sieged their own city all on their own... wait nevermind, they needed the Alliance to save them in a show of heroism. Or how Vol'Jin was murdered while Varian was... showing himself a competent leader...

How was either expansion Horde centric?

- - - Updated - - -

Awww..... Cataclysm was all about Thrall, Mists was all about the Horde insurrection to restore the Horde, with help from the Alliance. Draenor was all orcs, and NOW you feel a little underappreciated in Legion, because, unlike the last 3 expacs isn't all about the Horde?!?!

I don't even knw what to say here that won't get me blasted for flaming or something, but hey, you guys might want to focus on your Warchief and the shit she's gonna do.

Draenor Orcs =/= the Horde.

Nor does SoO = the Horde. Hell if anything SoO showed off how great the Alliance was as the Horde couldn't even get past the front gate.

[Zyrosis]

hah, are you Horde players really complaining about a storyline that focuses on the alliance for once?!? God, we've had to endure stupid Orcs for the previous two expansions which equals like 5 years.

about. damn. time.

So you're saying that if there's an expansion where, let's say, the leader of the Alliance becomes bat shit crazy, and becomes pure evil and we have to kill them by sieging your capital city, that it would be a pro Alliance expansion? You sure you wouldn't still claim Horde favoritism because the Horde is having to help kill your previous leader?

[Mercane]

'cept the Horde were also there...and it wasn't the Horde capital in that moment. It was the True Horde's. Furthermore Anduin only shows up in Jade Forest, a single quest in Kun-Lai, a single moment in Krasarand and then in 5.1. Of course that was the Alliance's part of the story so I have no idea why you're bringing that up since the Horde see Anduin less than even that small amount.

Anduin was all over the place in MoP.

What are you even on about?

[A dot Ham]

Legion is my favorite expansion however.. its not perfect..why?

..Anduin, Velen, while they fit the theme, they are being thrown everywhere and that is appropriate due to their relevance however there is no variation to it. The Horde has done and accomplished literally nothing since Stormheim. We've been tossed a bone with Val'sharah, having Tyrande berate us and tell us how much she loves her husband and desperately needs us to save her. We had Baine cut from Highmountain in beta, which if added would've been a perfect variation for the Alliance presence in Val'sharah. On the website it displays Sylvanas is a main character. We see nothing from her expect her commanding us to take random Warden towers for random reasons. I honestly feel like in 7.3 when we go to Argus, the entire story will focus on Illidan, Khadgar, Anduin, Velen, and Tyrande. 3 [4, if you count Khadgar as an Alliance character]], Alliance characters and 2 neutral characters. [1, if you remove Khadgar]. If I were to brainstorm a Horde quest, I'd involve Baine, Thrall, and Saurfang returning to the Broken Shore to avenge Vol'jin, if you don't want to involve Sylvanas. Hell, I'd take Lor'themar to Dalaran and give his apologies to what happened years ago. So much is out of place here.

As a Horde player I don't feel heroic at all in this expansion. I feel like the Alliance's lapdog. I feel like I'm watching them do all of the cool stuff from afar. I feel like Blizzard is making the same mistake with the Warchief promotion: Giving them the title and having them do nothing. I remember in MoP, which IMO, storytelling was at its best, there was a balance between the two factions. Each one getting acquitted amount of lore. You say that it doesn't make any sense for the story to have variation yet MoP did this wonderfully.

So why in Legion where the biggest threat Azeroth has ever faced, is only focused on the Alliance?


Note. No I'm not asking for a Horde cinematic similar to Anduin's. Why?
Quote'ing from WoW - GD

Can we stop this please. Horde xpac vs Alliance xpac. Your reasons (your being the global your) are so subjective, and are purposely near sighted.

First lets address WoD being a "horde xpac", yes we went back to see the makings of what became the horde. That is in no way indicative of the horde as a whole. It gives nothing for trolls, undead, tauren, bloodelves, goblins, pandaren. Or did we conveniently forget the horde isn't just one race, in actuality it hasn't been one race since... WCII? The orcs as part of the legion, were direct villains and a threat to the original denizens of Azeroth. The return of that same horde of orcs, (minus legion fuel) are still very much a threat to those original inhabitants (mainly Alliance races). The horde (Azeroth's horde) may have felt responsible as Garrosh was their warchief, and may have felt a deeper need to end the conflict, but the threat the Iron Horde posed to the Alliance was equal. Lets also not forget that the Lords of War promos... had literally nothing to do with the horde. They were Maraad talking to Varian about his experiences with each of these chiefs. Which again... having nothing to do with horde that players experience.

The next thing to consider is that if you think back to the RTS days of Warcraft. Each campaign didn't tell the same events each from their own perspective, they always progressed the story according to a certain point of view. Furthermore, I don't actually see how you see this as more one than the other. Because Alliance got an extra cutscene? Come on now...

Lastly, going back to the original inhabitants of Azeroth, the Alliance have always been there to defend the world when needed. Whereas the horde, are relatively new to the game (the game of defending the world). So imho (I play horde btw) it makes sense ore more sense, that the story be told from their perspective more often. (Which I don't feel is the case here).

On the end of character development. Vol'jin died. Sylvanas was named warchief and uses that opportunity to do what she always does... serve herself. We had a whole zone that progressed that endeavor. But again I feel like you're one an only reference point is this cutscene. Its pretty weak shit, and the xpac isn't over.

[Toppy]

So you're saying that if there's an expansion where, let's say, the leader of the Alliance becomes bat shit crazy, and becomes pure evil and we have to kill them by sieging your capital city, that it would be a pro Alliance expansion? You sure you wouldn't still claim Horde favoritism because the Horde is having to help kill your previous leader?

I suppose thats the irony. If that did happen, if say, Genn took over Stormwind and we had to siege as part of a raid and take him out using both Horde and Alliance, there would be a massive outcry over how this proves once and for all that blizzard hates the Alliance.