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    Bloodsail Admiral Psychotrip's Avatar
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    How large is Orgrimmar, canonically?

    Just a quick question to sate my curiosity. We all know that WoW's depiction of Azeroth isn't "to scale". Every zone is much, much larger in lore than it is in-game. With this in mind, I've always wondered how large Orgrimmar is in "reality". Is the valley strength the size of Brooklyn? Is the Clef of Shadow a massive subterranean complex? How big is Orgrimmar?
    Some people really like flavor. Occasionally subsisting on nutrient paste just doesn't feel the same as eating a steak. I get that flavor isn't for everyone, but I doubt removing all cosmetic indicators from the game would be appealing either. Nobody want to log in, queue to fight modestly sized blue checked box boss #7, initiate combat using an attack sequence of abilities 1-7 with a 13 beat repeat coda intermittently, and collect item level 630 slot 7 gear either.

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    Stood in the Fire
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    If Lands of Mystery and WOWRpg has any "validity", Orgrimmar has over 14k to 16k population... So imagine that without skyscrappers in a medieval town structure type... Pretty big, hard to define the size/scale as there's no mansion anywhere in official Lore or books.

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    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Way bigger then it is ingame. Probably your average city.
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  4. #4
    According to some probably inaccurate WoWWiki sources, Orgrimmar has a population of 16,000.

    The town I currently live in also has a pop of 16,000 and according to Google Maps, the town is about 4 miles across. But population density around here is pretty low, and Orgimmar definitely has some pretty high pop. density conditions based on what we know about it.

    I think IRL Orgrimmar could be 2-3 miles across, which would make it roughly the same size of Lower Manhatten.

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    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saluna View Post
    If Lands of Mystery and WOWRpg has any "validity",
    They don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    According to some probably inaccurate WoWWiki sources, Orgrimmar has a population of 16,000.
    That's from the non-canon RPG.

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    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They don't.


    That's from the non-canon RPG.
    Good to know thats it's non canon! Thanks for the info!

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    According to some probably inaccurate WoWWiki sources, Orgrimmar has a population of 16,000.

    The town I currently live in also has a pop of 16,000 and according to Google Maps, the town is about 4 miles across. But population density around here is pretty low, and Orgimmar definitely has some pretty high pop. density conditions based on what we know about it.

    I think IRL Orgrimmar could be 2-3 miles across, which would make it roughly the same size of Lower Manhatten.
    As per @Aquamonkey comment, those WowWiki sources are not valid

    So in short : No Official cannon lore!

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    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    According to some probably inaccurate WoWWiki sources, Orgrimmar has a population of 16,000.

    The town I currently live in also has a pop of 16,000 and according to Google Maps, the town is about 4 miles across. But population density around here is pretty low, and Orgimmar definitely has some pretty high pop. density conditions based on what we know about it.

    I think IRL Orgrimmar could be 2-3 miles across, which would make it roughly the same size of Lower Manhatten.
    According to Wikipedia, in the beginning of the 13th century, Paris had a population of 50 000 inhabitants in an area of about 1 square mile behind the walls. It's much easier to defend a city when the walls have to protect a small surface. Knowing this, I would say that it's not that game Orgrimmar is so much smaller than lore Orgrimmar, but that it should be more tightly built. Since it is built in a canyon, there could be three or four levels of houses built on the slopes of the valleys. Orgrimmar should not even be that populous either. Durotar is not that fertile. It takes many famers to feed a large city.
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    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    According to Wikipedia, in the beginning of the 13th century, Paris had a population of 50 000 inhabitants in an area of about 1 square mile behind the walls. It's much easier to defend a city when the walls have to protect a small surface. Knowing this, I would say that it's not that game Orgrimmar is so much smaller than lore Orgrimmar, but that it should be more tightly built. Since it is built in a canyon, there could be three or four levels of houses built on the slopes of the valleys. Orgrimmar should not even be that populous either. Durotar is not that fertile. It takes many famers to feed a large city.
    Plus, Orcs main source of food is meat, specifically from boars, so that makes it even less efficient. As much as I love me some meat to eat, vegetable farming much much more efficient in terms of yield per acre.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotrip View Post
    Just a quick question to sate my curiosity. We all know that WoW's depiction of Azeroth isn't "to scale". Every zone is much, much larger in lore than it is in-game. With this in mind, I've always wondered how large Orgrimmar is in "reality". Is the valley strength the size of Brooklyn? Is the Clef of Shadow a massive subterranean complex? How big is Orgrimmar?
    do not forget, Orgrimmar is built INSIDE a CANION so it cannot stretch forever

  10. #10
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Plus, Orcs main source of food is meat, specifically from boars, so that makes it even less efficient. As much as I love me some meat to eat, vegetable farming much much more efficient in terms of yield per acre.
    Those pig farms apparently run on lumber.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Plus, Orcs main source of food is meat, specifically from boars, so that makes it even less efficient. As much as I love me some meat to eat, vegetable farming much much more efficient in terms of yield per acre.
    I believe it was said somewheres before that Orcs took up fishing in Durotar. And they do a lot of trading with the goblins south of them and now have goblins north of them with docks. They should be pretty covered on food sources by now.

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    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    The Cleft Of Shadow would also house a decent chunk of the population on a subterranean level, so the city itself might not be as large as you'd expect
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Plus, Orcs main source of food is meat, specifically from boars, so that makes it even less efficient. As much as I love me some meat to eat, vegetable farming much much more efficient in terms of yield per acre.
    Low level characters and people that duel outside of Org don't help with that either.

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    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    It's amusing to imagine how the capital cities should really look like in the lore.

    Alliance:

    Stormwind has pretty much been covered in the movie. I can see a population of one or two hundred thousands.

    Ironforge: One of the oldest capital cities, if not the oldest. The dwarves must have carved the mountain in every direction. Most of it must be mines, though. Still, the city must be huge and labyrinthine, with a great population (by medieval standards), now that the Wildhammers and the Dark Irons are admitted back in the city. Khaz Modan is vast, so food must not be a problem. Even Dun Morogh should have decent farming. In lore, it must not always be covered with snow. Trade is made even easier with the Deep Run Tram.

    Darnassus : A young city, it should be rather small and mainly used for institutionnal purposes. It must not be much larger than what we see in game. Anyway, the Night Elves are all about nature, so I don't see them packed in dense cities. More Night Elves on Teldrassil must be living outside than inside Darnassus. Ru'theran Village, the city's harbour, should be bustling with activity though: trade, fisheries, inns for the sailors, etc. I could also see smaller settlements on lower branches of Teldrassil that we do not see in game.

    Exodar: It's a ship, and it's already big enough. And it is now repaired, in lore if not in game. However, if I were a Draenei, I would like to settle outside the ship, with fresh air and sunlight. And space. Therefore, I can imagine that the immediate vicinity of the Exodar should by now be surrounded by two or three "faubourgs" (parts of the city outside the city walls) and farms. There could be one human district, if the humans seen in Velen's short story remained.

    Horde:

    I've given my opinion on Orgrimmar in a former post.

    Undercity: Undercity is probably the most important city in EK for the Horde. Strategically speaking, it's more important than Silvermoon. The Forsaken have now one of the biggest armies in the Horde too. So Undercity must be filled, not only with Forsaken, but also members of all the Horde. It must be bigger than what we see in game, if only for housing. It is also said to be a real labyrinthe. However, by now the Forsaken must have taken back the ruins of Lordaeron City and rebuild some parts of it. My idea is that the subterranean city must be used for institutional and defensive purposes, while Forsaken citizens and other members of the Horde should be living in the upper city. Food should not be a problem for the Forsaken, who seem to "enjoy" to eat fungus and mold, but some farms taken back from humans must be used to feed the non-Forsaken in the city.

    Silvermoon: The Blood Elves have suffered greatly from the Third War, and must not have recovered a lot since then. They are not numerous enough to inhabit all the city, so I imagine that, even if half the city has been rebuilt, it is still scarcely populated. The western part will remain in ruins for a long time. Because of the Sunwell, it has a huge spiritual importance for the High/Blood Elf diaspora. However, for the Horde as a whole, its strategic situation is not that great, especially now that the Scourge is no longer a threat. Therefore, it must not be a very cosmopolitan city. The city as a whole, ruins included, must be much larger than what we see in game.

    Thunder Bluff : Tauren culture is nomadic by nature. Even less than Night Elves, I can't see the Tauren living in a big city. Food can be gathered in the wilderness and I imagine great cisterns to keep rain water in the bluffs. Its population must rise depending on the seasons. I can see the bluffs filling up with wigwams or tepees during religious holidays or for trade in spring or fall. Or when Baine assemble the clans to consult their chieftains. If Thunder Bluff is like some iroquoian villages, it's population must be around a thousand or two, maybe less, but not much more.
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  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    If you're basing this off of population size (16k) then just imagine that all the player created Orcs on your server live in Orgrimmar. They're just never home because they're out saving the world.
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    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    I assume Orgrimmar is equal or greater in population than stormwind because orcs reproduce faster, but condensed in size. If stormwind was able to lose 50k soldiers in the war against the scourge in north-rend (god damn) Then I'd say easily nearing 100k? orcs are packed into a winding canyon system (obviously bigger than whats seen in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

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    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    I assume Orgrimmar is equal or greater in population than stormwind because orcs reproduce faster, but condensed in size. If stormwind was able to lose 50k soldiers in the war against the scourge in north-rend (god damn) Then I'd say easily nearing 100k? orcs are packed into a winding canyon system (obviously bigger than whats seen in the game.
    The Kingdom of Stormwind may have lost 50 000 soldiers (which seems a lot), but I doubt Stormwind City did. Also, orcs may be reproducing faster, there was more humans in the Kingdom of Stormwind to begin with. And it remains to be seen how much faster they can reproduce. I really doubt that Orgrimmar's population is of 100 000 inhabitants.
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  18. #18
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    The Kingdom of Stormwind may have lost 50 000 soldiers (which seems a lot), but I doubt Stormwind City did. Also, orcs may be reproducing faster, there was more humans in the Kingdom of Stormwind to begin with. And it remains to be seen how much faster they can reproduce. I really doubt that Orgrimmar's population is of 100 000 inhabitants.
    orcs normally have multiple children at once, and reach maturity at around 12. Its either that or during war the average orc kills more alliance soldiers then a human kills orcs, keeping it balanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

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