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  1. #421
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thedead241 View Post
    So lets play devils advocate here.

    Those jobs are generally more stressful or require alot of training. The higher salary is meant to respect that as very few people are able to do it.

    The tone of your post indicates that you don't think they deserve it / need it? They could live in an upper class area etc which means higher prices.
    you deserve what you earn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I bought a $1300 watch a couple weeks ago, oh my I'm so wasteful and random poor people are starving and dying around the world, I'm a bad man now apparenlty.

    Why does it matter what I do with my money?
    I guess I'll have to quote myself once more 'if you're aware of poverty and suffering, and if you want to ignore persons dying of it, you must know that you have something to do with it, and you should show respect to other persons. if you will is your call, but I'll teach my children to have sane morals. don't giving a fuck to persons dying of poverty is either careless or amoral'

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Thedead241 View Post
    So lets play devils advocate here.

    Those jobs are generally more stressful or require alot of training. The higher salary is meant to respect that as very few people are able to do it.

    The tone of your post indicates that you don't think they deserve it / need it? They could live in an upper class area etc which means higher prices.
    Sure, theoretically higher paying jobs are supposed to go to more talented and harder working people, but just as often they end up getting filled by well-connected idiots or BS artists, and it's generally the latter that jealously guard their wealth and status far more than the people who actually earn that big paycheck through ability.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    you deserve what you earn

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    I guess I'll have to quote myself once more 'if you're aware of poverty and suffering, and if you want to ignore persons dying of it, you must know that you have something to do with it, and you should show respect to other persons. if you will is your call, but I'll teach my children to have sane morals. don't giving a fuck to persons dying of poverty is either careless or amoral'
    That's just woefully stupid.

    I have nothing to do with some random person starving, or dying in Idaho because I decided to use some of my money on luxury items. For the most part my money goes right back into investing.Sane morals? You think I'm immoral for not handing out money to everyone? How stupid is that!

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOut View Post
    I'm interested to see what kind of home you mortgage with less than 25k/yr.
    a very nice place on top of an old hotel of the early last century, I live mainly in the second floor of my home at the very top of the building, under windows which I enjoy, no noise, very good place to be productive, located at the very center of my middle size city so I have everything available including food delivery. what could I want more, what matters is what I do and this is the perfect environnent, I don't need a "big house"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    That's just woefully stupid.

    I have nothing to do with some random person starving, or dying in Idaho because I decided to use some of my money on luxury items. For the most part my money goes right back into investing.Sane morals? You think I'm immoral for not handing out money to everyone? How stupid is that!
    you can chose to give to charity, or to help dying people. your call. you can be a positive element for our society. so we could live in a better world. having a sane mindset and work toward a better world for everyone. there is hardly real misery in your country because it is civilized, but you're not the only country in the world. you think it's stupid to care about suffering of other human beings by at least trying to contribute ? if so, you're immoral. don't be proud of yourself. what can I say
    I know - you probably would not think that way if you happened to be born in a family in a third world country ruled by a corrupt government, and if you were in the process of dying of starvation, under the eyes of your poor mother, knowing large number of people are wasting luxury goods somewhere else
    Last edited by Cæli; 2017-04-28 at 01:00 AM.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    So here's the selfish perspective. If taxes are not progressive, society will likely become more and more stratified. And eventually the lower classes will revolt.

    High tax rates ensures that there's some churn and social mobility between classes and that's important for a well functioning economy.
    Taxes are fine where they are, a small cut for single high earners, and that's all that's needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    a very nice place on top of an old hotel of the early last century, I live mainly in the second floor of my home at the very top of the building, under windows which I enjoy, no noise, very good place to be productive, located at the very center of my middle size city so I have everything available including food delivery. what could I want more, what matters is what I do and this is the perfect environnent, I don't need a "big house"

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    you can chose to give to charity, or to help dying people. your call. you can be a positive element for our society. so we could live in a better world. having a sane mindset and work toward a better world for everyone. there is hardly real misery in your country because it is civilized, but you're not the only country in the world. you think it's stupid to care about suffering of other human beings by at least trying to contribute ? if so, you're immoral. don't be proud of yourself. what can I say
    I know - you probably would not think that way if you happened to be born in a family in a third world country ruled by a corrupt government, and if you were in the process of dying of starvation, under the eyes of your poor mother, knowing large number of people are wasting luxury goods somewhere else
    I have given 30 dollars to charity in the past month. I care about other's suffering. I'm not going to loose sleep and worryin myself because of some kid starving in some country.

    I feel like you should see a doctor... the amount of blood coming out of your heart is... alarming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Well, clearly you haven't read important, luminary pieces like this one in Current Affairs:

    I don't think people like this AQ Smith character realize how much they alienate normal people with this kind of rhetoric.

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    Hard to know without some contingencies, but if they also have a partner making the same amount, the math on living in a decent home gets a lot easier.

    Even without a partner, a 30 year mortgage on a $100K house is $473. Granting that taxes, insurance and repairs tack on additional money, this still won't shake to a crazy amount. Here's a duplex in Buffalo, NY (referencing the city because I used to live there and know it's cheap) for that price where you'd be able to live in the upper, rent out the lower and basically break even.

    It really depends where you live and what your tastes are.
    The part complaining about how brad pitt will build homes for victims but make sure they look cool is just a huge... "what the fuck is your problem with free good looking homes"?

  6. #426
    Once you factor in student loans, mortgages and children, 100k is not as much as it sounds like. 50% tax on that amount would kill our economy.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Taxes are fine where they are, a small cut for single high earners, and that's all that's needed.

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    I have given 30 dollars to charity in the past month. I care about other's suffering. I'm not going to loose sleep and worryin myself because of some kid starving in some country.

    I feel like you should see a doctor... the amount of blood coming out of your heart is... alarming.
    if you cared about other's suffering you would not say that it is "stupid" to show respect to persons who die of poverty, that's just what you said

    and sorry ? are you proud to show your children a world where poverty exist, wealth is wasted, people dying of poverty and suffering everywhere ? I am not proud of it, and I believe everyone should contribute their small part, with the right mindset, to work toward a better world. literally who doesn't want that ? I'm not suggesting to blindlessly throw money to everyone, it is not "bleeding heart" what the hell dude, it's a sane mindset that everyone should have
    Last edited by Cæli; 2017-04-28 at 01:19 AM.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    world where people dying
    I've got some bad news for you.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allerius View Post
    I've got some bad news for you.
    ahah yeah it was obviously meant to mean people dying of poverty

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    ahah yeah it was obviously meant to mean people dying of poverty
    How is that different or more important than people dying of other causes?

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Go be poor somewhere else.
    Lol I'm not poor. I'm also not playing a character on a forum. Only one of us can say that second one with honesty.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allerius View Post
    How is that different or more important than people dying of other causes?
    it's not but we specifically talk about wealth and poverty in here, not people getting killed because religion or else

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Do you believe that if someone is making over 100k a year, they should be forced to pay 50k of it in taxes to the Govt?
    You clearly don't know how taxes work. I make about that much, I didn't take any deductions, and I didn't pay anywhere near 50k.

    /thread.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    If tax rates got that high college would be paid for, and health care.
    That's fine and well, but what about all of us that already have student loans and mortgages? And how do you know that?

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    if you cared about other's suffering you would not say that it is "stupid" to show respect to persons who die of poverty, that's just what you said

    and sorry ? are you proud to show your children a world where poverty exist, wealth is wasted, people dying of poverty and suffering everywhere ? I am not proud of it, and I believe everyone should contribute their small part, with the right mindset, to work toward a better world. literally who doesn't want that ? I'm not suggesting to blindlessly throw money to everyone, it is not "bleeding heart" what the hell dude, it's a sane mindset that everyone should have
    You went from "showing respect" to saying basically everyone who earns x amount should do something about it. That's just stupid, issue with word hunger? Well considering it can be solved with about 150bn dollars that's easily doable via a joint government program. What the fuck do I have to do?

    Sane mindset isn't worrying about everyone who dies every few seconds around the world for some x thing, that's insane.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You went from "showing respect" to saying basically everyone who earns x amount should do something about it. That's just stupid, issue with word hunger? Well considering it can be solved with about 150bn dollars that's easily doable via a joint government program. What the fuck do I have to do?

    Sane mindset isn't worrying about everyone who dies every few seconds around the world for some x thing, that's insane.
    my view on it is we should aknowledge that persons are dying of poverty right now, and that everyone should contribute their small part to make a better world. if you have no money you can educate persons or your children to have a sane mindset that lean toward an improved society where we could evolve even faster and in a more sane environment. if you have money you have more power to contribute, you can do the same and also give money, or even create things to help, if that's your choice. we can't truly change the world by ourselves, but we can contribute our small part to make it better. if all of us have this mindset, the world and society will heal itself in a few generation that's what I believe. we have to accept poverty we see today. but we should not ignore it and be careless about it. ignoring it is immoral and something I strongly disagree with, and personally I see that as an education problem.
    Last edited by Cæli; 2017-04-28 at 01:42 AM.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Do you realize corporations move and operate in other countries for the primary reason that their tax codes are much more favorable for business environments?

    Do you realize that if you cut corporate and small business tax rates, they can reinvest that money in the economy thus creating more jobs and increasing income across the board? Thus, more taxes are paid. This is a blatantly obvious side effect of lowering taxes. More taxes will be paid because more money will be paid out to people in the form of jobs.

    I honestly want to know, why is it that the liberal ideology when it comes to domestic taxing is to "tax the rich" at astronomical rates? How is that going to help the economy? Don't you realize that when businesses and individuals have to pay more of their earned money to the federal govt, they have to shelter the money they DO get to keep instead of reinvesting it?
    Someone who actually understands.....The government collects ~$3.2 trillion, which 80% comes from income and payroll taxes. Corporations all together only pay ~$400 billion in taxes a year. To simply that, it would be like $400 out of $3,200. What Trump is proposing would essentially cut out $220 from that $400. They are hoping to provide incentive to corporations to stop outsourcing jobs/manufacturing and headquartering in tax havens. And before people complain about a loss of $220 billion. We already operate on a deficit of $500 billion yearly, meaning the fed collects $3.2 trillion, but spends $3.7 trillion. There's two ways to reduce the debt in the current state, tax more or cut budgets, both in which people will never elect that candidate again lol.

  18. #438
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    100k isn't that much, and depending on the location in larger cities would be a lower middle class living. 100k wage earners do not pay 50k in taxes, I can tell you firsthand.

    More importantly, keep in mind the Trump tax plan was just a proposal and isn't anywhere close to actually being an implemented change. In fact both Republicans and Democrats have said it would have 0 chance of passing. And, to even be proposed under budget rules it would have to be shown as dollar-neutral, which they haven't come close to either. This was more of a, this would be nice to do in the next few years maybe if all goes well, type thing.

    So we'd have to wait and see far more details to make any sort of call on it, after the administration overcomes all of those hurdles. With deductions being significantly reduced you'd have to see after that and all the adjustments to the rules that will happen to get it passed, and then see if/how it changes your actual tax bill. It's more about simplifying the tax rules, which I'm all for. As big as deficits are already, not even counting the health care plan, a massive infrastructure spending plan, increased military spending, and of course the Mexico wall, thinking that your taxes are going to be massively cut is probably wishful thinking. He can't reduce taxes across the board both individual and corporate, while increasing spending on his pet projects (which are far larger than planned reductions elsewhere), and not increase the deficit. The math doesn't add up.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    my view on it is we should aknowledge that persons are dying of poverty right now, and that everyone should contribute their small part to make a better world. if you have no money you can educate persons or your children to have a sane mindset that lean toward an improved society where we could evolve even faster and in a more sane environnement. if you have money you have more power to contribute, you can do the same and also give money, or even create things to help, if that's your choice. we can't truly change the world by ourselves, but we can contribute our small part to make it better. if all of us have this mindset, the world and society will heal itself in a few generation that's what I believe. we have to accept poverty we see today. but we should not ignore it and be careless about it. ignoring it is immoral and something I strongly disagree with, and personally I see that as an education problem.
    Okay... so people are dying of pvoerty, and so what? I can't do anything about it. It's not my duty to do anything about it, if you want to remedy that issue well... you need to play the political game. Hell in some of those countries good fucking luck lol

    what the fuck is this sane mindsent bullshit, as if anything other than your mindset is insane? Like seriously what the fuck is that?!.

    I have money... I also use that money to make money... explain to me how I can invest if I am busy showering the world with money? Why shouldn't we ignore it? How in the world are we "careless" about it? I'm not causing poverty, I'm also not going to pretend I can fucking solve it.

    Oh it's sad... sad shit happens all the time around the world. I'm not going to worry myself about it, there are children benig killed and abused, I'm not going to spend my day and nights thinking about that.
    Last edited by Themius; 2017-04-28 at 01:49 AM.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Okay... so people are dying of pvoerty, and so what? I can't do anything about it. It's not my duty to do anything about it, if you want to remedy that issue well... you need to play the political game. Hell in some of those countries good fucking luck lol

    what the fuck is this sane mindsent bullshit, as if anything other than your mindset is insane? Like seriously what the fuck is that?!.

    I have money... I also use that money to make money... explain to me how I can invest if I am buy showering the world with money? Why shouldn't we ignore it? How in the world are we "careless" about it? I'm not causing poverty, I'm also not going to pretend I can fucking solve it.

    Oh it's sad... sad shit happens all the time around the world. I'm not going to worry myself about it, there are children benig killed and abused, I'm not going to spend my day and nights thinking about that.
    you don't have the power to suppress poverty, but you can contribute to a more fair society, by regularly giving to effective charities if you want to, with the purpose to help, constantly showing respect to persons who didn't get your luck, being basically a good person, and invite everyone like I'm doing right now to do like so in order to create a brighter future for our children and their children

    that's a sane mindset
    basically being in favor of preserving and respecting life

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