Do you BELIEVE that someone making 100k a year needs to pay at least 50k in taxes?

[Themius]

you don't have the power to suppress poverty, but you can contribute to a more fair society, by regularly giving to effective charities if you want to, with the purpose to help, constantly showing respect to persons who didn't get your luck, being basically a good person, and invite everyone like I'm doing right now to do like so in order to create a brighter future for our children and their children

that's a sane mindset

My luck? Luck has nothing at all to do with it... It's work...

I'm not a hippy, sorry.

Constantly showing respect to poor people? How the fuck should I do that and why the fuck should I? I'm not around poor people first off, and I'm not usually spending my days talking about poor people.

[BannedForViews]

Ya man! We have a huge debt problem. But lowering taxes with no way to fund it is a great way to fix everything! /s

Spend less.

[Cæli]

My luck? Luck has nothing at all to do with it... It's work...

I'm not a hippy, sorry.

Constantly showing respect to poor people? How the fuck should I do that and why the fuck should I? I'm not around poor people first off, and I'm not usually spending my days talking about poor people.

it's not luck if you were born in an environment that allowed you to get wealth ? were you born and grown up in a third world country from a family from there ? were you born in a place that allowed you to have a proper education ? all that is pure luck. you don't decide where you're born. some are not lucky like you. I consider myself lucky to have a life to begin with, and have a computer, a home, to be able to eat when I'm hungry.

yes showing respect (not only to poor people, just to everyone worthy of respect), just like that, it's not hard to respect other persons, and yet that's primordial, just respect them sincerely because they're living beings just like you, they share your planet and so you're sharing theirs, dunno what to say more

[AlphaOut]

a very nice place on top of an old hotel of the early last century, I live mainly in the second floor of my home at the very top of the building, under windows which I enjoy, no noise, very good place to be productive, located at the very center of my middle size city so I have everything available including food delivery. what could I want more, what matters is what I do and this is the perfect environnent, I don't need a "big house"

Here's the difference, if you make 25k/yr where I live you'll have enough to to live in low income housing. There's a handful of reasons I want and have more than an apartment. Kind of hard to entertain 20 guests in a small place. Spare rooms for friends. Property for my dogs and a large garden area. Large kitchen to cook for parties we host. Since when do we limit ourselves on "need?" You don't "need" internet, donate what you'd pay your provider to the poor. Get it? You dont "need" a computer. It's all how each individual prioritizes their comforts in life. My comforts are very different from yours, but that doesn't mean I care less than people in poverty than you do. It means my priorities are different than yours.

[Cæli]

Here's the difference, if you make 25k/yr where I live you'll have enough to to live in low income housing. There's a handful of reasons I want and have more than an apartment. Kind of hard to entertain 20 guests in a small place. Spare rooms for friends. Property for my dogs and a large garden area. Large kitchen to cook for parties we host. Since when do we limit ourselves on "need?" You don't "need" internet, donate what you'd pay your provider to the poor. Get it? You dont "need" a computer. It's all how each individual prioritizes their comforts in life. My comforts are very different from yours, but that doesn't mean I care less than people in poverty than you do. It means my priorities are different than yours.

you seems to say that I suggest that persons who work to get benefits they want shouldn't have the right to do so, that's not true
but anyway what were we saying ? I kind of missed the point we are trying to make

[WernerCD]

Sigh.

We have a debt problem because of the stubbornness of thought that it is simply one side or another of an equation.

What I chuckle about with these kinds of arguments is that they generally come from people that want a more business-like attitude brought to government (which is actually a stupid argument, but I understand the sentiments). Yet, there isn't a single business man on the planet that would focus solely on costs...they focus on revenue as well. If you aren't having a conversation about both, you aren't having a useful conversation.

Do we spend too much on programs? In general, we haven't been that bad, but typically the question is about what we want to get out of government programs. Do we want to help the less fortunate in life? Do we want to have good emergency services? Do we want to maintain parks for the citizens to enjoy? These are, for the most part, moral questions that have no business answer, so judging them on a business scale is utterly pointless. What do we want our country to look like? And that is not an easily answered question. And that is also why we consistently have arguments about where and how much we spend...and those are good arguments, we should question those things. But arbitrarily saying, "we spend too much" is simply demonstrating that you've put no thought into what is going on.

As far as revenue goes, we definitely have a problem. Corporations are paying less and less of the tax base, and with the growing wealth inequality, the 1% have paid proportionally less of the tax base leaving us in a bind for money.



This image demonstrates how much corporate taxes have dropped. From about 25% to 30% of the tax base in the 50s down to about 10% of the tax base today. This has shifted the tax burden onto payroll taxes where, many times, the employees are paying additional taxes before even being involved with income taxes.

As for the individual income taxes, the shift there is that while the top 1% has increased their income by about 64% (1979 to 2011), they've only increased their contribution to income taxes by about 41% during that same time. This means that the richest 1%, via both personal income as well as the corporations that they tend to head, are contributing substantially less to the US tax base. Why would anyone think that is fair? And that doesn't even touch the problem of government spending on corporate welfare (basically, giving some of that money back to the very same people and companies that already pay much less than they used to).

"Sigh." is right. I'm talking about Point A and your deflecting/redirecting to Point B.

My argument was that we as a country spend too much. Despite the fact that revenue is at an all time high - inflation adjusted - the money is flying out faster than ever. We are 20T in debt.

Your argument is that Corporations pay too little, compared to previous years. People pay too much.

While I don't disagree that the mix of income could be adjusted - Income Tax Less, Corporate Tax more... Import Taxes more, Other taxes less... whatever... "Corporate Welfare" can be increased/decreased/removed/whatever. Tax brackets could be fixed raised/lowered... loopholes added/removed...

The points you make about the MIX of taxes is a different argument than the massive DEFICIT we are in. Your stance (Corporations should pay more, Individuals less) is in no way shape or form for-or-against the fact that we spend too much - it's a related side bar and not the conversation we was having. A related topic, but a different topic none the less.

At the end of the day, if you charge corporations more - the individuals STILL PAY because guess what? Either the corporations raise their prices, they employ fewer people or they sell less - thus help the economy less. It's the same problem Fight for $15 has - the cost of business going up doesn't help those at the bottom (which is another conversation all together). Whether we pay more for the product (due to increased business costs) or pay more in income taxes: We still pay more.

And again - to stay on the topic... If you get $100 in revenue and spend $150... it doesn't matter (for this conversation) how you get that $100. What matters is that next month when you get $150 and then spend $250 - you have a spending problem.

This country has gotten more and more revenue... and spend even more and more than that revenue - irregardless of the source/mix of the revenue...

[Klaiden Potugye]

U just mad cause of their super oil swagger~

Nah, I just made a point not to compare US and Norway budgets. And gave reasons.

[Themius]

it's not luck if you were born in an environment that allowed you to get wealth ? were you born and grown up in a third world country from a family from there ? were you born in a place that allowed you to have a proper education ? all that is pure luck. you don't decide where you're born. some are not lucky like you. I consider myself lucky to have a life to begin with, and have a computer, a home, to be able to eat when I'm hungry.

yes showing respect (not only to poor people, just to everyone worthy of respect), just like that, it's not hard to respect other persons, and yet that's primordial, just respect them sincerely because they're living beings just like you, they share your planet and so you're sharing theirs, dunno what to say more

Pure luck? My family is from basically a 3rd world country, worked very hard, and moved to Europe, then worked hard and moved to America and continued to work. It's not "luck".

[TITAN308]

Lol I'm not poor. I'm also not playing a character on a forum. Only one of us can say that second one with honesty.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Deleted]

Tithing isn't about how much money God needs. It's about how much one sacrifices to God.

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What about it? I didn't say taxes shouldn't be paid.

So, if you do not "sacrifice to god" you do not need to pay taxes?

[Ulmita]

Listen, taxing not only is good, its vital for a government to function.
Taxing needs to be a % of the salary as it is now almost anywhere with the difference that not only you need to have a high % to lucrative payrolls, but also put in place a "cap" for both individuals and corporations.

Anything about that should be 100% tax. There is absolutely no reason for people to be sitting on 100's of millions or 10's of billions. Same go for the corporations. Allow them to have something like 5 years worth of operating expenses and the rest tax it. - Give back to the people in the form of social benefits (healthcare, education, etc)

[Eazy]

[QUOTE=KevinD;45520294]You don't need 50 mill a year to do any of that, not even remotely close. You don't even need 20mill to do that... heck most people in this world do fine with 20.000 a year or less. If you think it makes any difference if you make 20 mill or 50 mill a year, YOU are the dilusional one.[/QUOTE]

Yes, of course it makes a difference, but how could I expect from someone totally inexperienced on such a field to understand it.

[Deleted]

I pay 52% income tax (Netherlands) and the key is to give yourself income outside of your salary.

Also, if I got my income from just my salary, as the owner I would simply double the salary.

[Taeron]

It's take by the people, for the people. You living in US is voluntary. If you don't like our government of the people, by the people, for the people, there is an easy exit. If you don't want to be part of the people who represent the country, you are free to leave the confines of its borders.

Living is voluntary yes... I'm not in the US. Even if I were, why should I have to leave just because I don't want to have my property stolen from me? Thats a terrible argument. Stealing is also "taken by people for other people". The voluntary part is the key.

Yeah, and if you think American government is some malevolent force and not of the people, by the people, for the people... you are free to leave for a country on whose behave Lincoln was not speaking during the Gettysburg address.

The American government (along with many governments) have proven to be malevolent forces and not "for" the people time and time again. Governments over the world have killed more people than any other organisation. 100 million people in the past century have died as a result of governments. There is a good reason for your second amendment.

I wish for the aggression, killing and stealing to stop, thats all. Ridding the world of governments is a good start.

[Cæli]

Pure luck? My family is from basically a 3rd world country, worked very hard, and moved to Europe, then worked hard and moved to America and continued to work. It's not "luck".

well you can't deny the fact that you were born an environnement that allowed you to get wealth for your work, why is there persons dying of starvation, is that because they're too lazy to work ?

that said maybe someday I'll understand the need of some people to give permanently their time to get extra wealth, but at the moment I don't understand, everyone is different I guess

[Hammerfest]

So, if you do not "sacrifice to god" you do not need to pay taxes?

Not sure why you'd even need to ask that, based on what I've already said.

[Deleted]

Not sure why you'd even need to ask that, based on what I've already said.

You said that no one should have to pay more in tax then they give to the church. So, if i do not give anything to the church it would mean that anything i give to the state as tax would be more then i give to the church.

What im basically pointing out is that the measure you use to define how much tax you should pay is arbitrary at best.

[Johnkie]

Do you believe that if someone is making over 100k a year, they should be forced to pay 50k of it in taxes to the Govt?

If you believe this way, why?

I certainly do not believe this way. If someone earns 100k a year or more, good for them. They deserve it.

BTW, LOVE the new Trump Tax Plan.

Honestly dude, it all boils down to one simple thing. What do you get in return for your tax money...
I'd be pissed if i was an american and 40% or more of my nations GDP was spent on military bullshit.
Already pissed what my nation is spending tax money on...

So yeah in an ideal world, i wouldn't mind paying taxes.
Though in an ideal world, money is a forgotten thing...

[Deleted]

I paid 52% over the top of my income for years. That might sounds insane, but I don't mind much. For that I get excellent healthcare, if I ever lose my job I get unemployment money that means I won't go bankrupt 'while I look for a new job. Our infrastructure, as opposed to the USA, is in excellent shape.

The insane thing in our tax system is that those working their way op from minimum wage to median wage have to go through a stretch where the marginal tax rate is greater than 100%.

[lycanvonwolf]

Do you realize corporations move and operate in other countries for the primary reason that their tax codes are much more favorable for business environments?

Do you realize that if you cut corporate and small business tax rates, they can reinvest that money in the economy thus creating more jobs and increasing income across the board? Thus, more taxes are paid. This is a blatantly obvious side effect of lowering taxes. More taxes will be paid because more money will be paid out to people in the form of jobs.

I honestly want to know, why is it that the liberal ideology when it comes to domestic taxing is to "tax the rich" at astronomical rates? How is that going to help the economy? Don't you realize that when businesses and individuals have to pay more of their earned money to the federal govt, they have to shelter the money they DO get to keep instead of reinvesting it?

Do you realize that they move there because of lower wages also. They will always have an excuse to move from America until they get tariffs that force them to stay here

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Pure luck? My family is from basically a 3rd world country, worked very hard, and moved to Europe, then worked hard and moved to America and continued to work. It's not "luck".

Everything you do in life has luck involved. Do not ever claim you worked hard therefor anyone can become something because you did it through hard work. That isn't how life works