1. #1
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Vanilla timewalking dungeon

    I searched and i find no answer for this at all, like no one even thought about it
    Why there is no timewalking vanilla wow dungeons ? like ST, Deadmines, or even BRM ?
    An argue can say because we 'see' them while lvling, but doesn't that apply to most dungeons in TW? We can see Slave Pans while lvling for sure
    I'm more curious of why no one suggested that before, or any statement from blizzard about it
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  2. #2
    you know thats not a bad question...

  3. #3
    Good question, mostly because half the people would get butthurt somehow, either they keep the new split up vanilla dungeons, or they bring back how they were, which means we'll spend 5x1 hour in dungeons just to get our seal, or that everyone else is butthurt that this isnt vanilla dungeons.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Marston's Avatar
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    I guess because:

    - Many original Vanilla dungeons no longer exist (Ragefire, Deadmines, Blackfathom, Shadowfang, Stockades... etc)
    - They have no Heroic mode, which is used for Timewalking. Which leads me to...
    - They are all at different level ranges and not clumped together at level 70/80/85/90 like the others
    - They, simply put, are really boring nowadays. They are easy and the mechanics are barely existing.

  5. #5
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Because there are essentially no mechanics in Vanilla content that would be interesting in 2017. Could you imagine a scaled down Dire Maul? There's nothing to do but chain-pull, and the player damage scaling is so aggressive in Timewalking that you'd be in there for 30 minutes at the least. All for garbage gear and some badges. No thanks.

    What they should have done is saved all the previously revamped Vanilla instances (Deadmines, SFK, Scarlet stuff, Strath & Scholo) and had those as "Classic Timewalking" and added more instances from the other expansions into their respective categories.

    Any time someone wonders why there's a lack of scaled vanilla content, think back to the 10th anniversary Molten Core LFR. Large groups might not play a role in Vanilla Timewalking, but ignorance of mechanics, instance layout and scaling resulting in frustratingly punishing mechanics certainly would, until said mechanics get nerfed, and then it's just boring.
    Last edited by MonsieuRoberts; 2017-04-28 at 12:57 PM.
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  6. #6
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theburned View Post
    Good question, mostly because half the people would get butthurt somehow, either they keep the new split up vanilla dungeons, or they bring back how they were, which means we'll spend 5x1 hour in dungeons just to get our seal, or that everyone else is butthurt that this isnt vanilla dungeons.
    Most TBC hcs - back then - took that time, and some were considered harder than Kara raid, like Shattered Halls or Arcatraz, so that argument is irrelevant, let's not talk about Cataclysm dungeons (pre-nerf) who were even harder than TBC, but u can argue they got nerfed fast
    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    I guess because:
    - Many original Vanilla dungeons no longer exist (Ragefire, Deadmines, Blackfathom, Shadowfang, Stockades... etc)
    - They have no Heroic mode, which is used for Timewalking. Which leads me to...
    - They are all at different level ranges and not clumped together at level 70/80/85/90 like the others
    - They, simply put, are really boring nowadays. They are easy and the mechanics are barely existing.
    - There are dungeons that didn't get changed, vanilla has long list of dungeons
    - The some that got changed have hc that can be used for TW, also there is no relation between a dungeon have hc and timewalk (in technology at least), scaling can work on anything
    - They can get us all stuck at 60 for the sake of it
    - Since we don't use or need cc in any dungeon anymore, mechanics are really irrelevant now, i can only name Pit of Saron last boss who has a mechanics that can't be brute forced
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MonsieuRoberts View Post
    Because there are essentially no mechanics in Vanilla content that would be interesting in 2017. Could you imagine a scaled down Dire Maul? There's nothing to do but chain-pull, and the player damage scaling is so aggressive in Timewalking that you'd be in there for 30 minutes at the least.
    I quite agree. However, and players from Vanilla/BC will remember this, the main mechanic of these dungeons has been all but removed entirely from the game. That mechanic was Threat. Difficulty of keeping multiple targets aggro lead to prevalence of hard, disable-type CC and by extension to the risk of using AoE spells which would break CC and give DPS aggro on all secondary targets. Even early strong healing could pull aggro and lead to healer death.

    So I guess, to replicate Vanilla/BC experience, all these dungeons should be subjected to the Skittish affix. And even then, tanks currently have a lot more multi target skills to build threat.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    I searched and i find no answer for this at all, like no one even thought about it
    Can't have searched very hard, as this thread is only two days old.

    But basically the same info in here as there, so... Nothing new to add.

  9. #9
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krl View Post
    I quite agree. However, and players from Vanilla/BC will remember this, the main mechanic of these dungeons has been all but removed entirely from the game. That mechanic was Threat. Difficulty of keeping multiple targets aggro lead to prevalence of hard, disable-type CC and by extension to the risk of using AoE spells which would break CC and give DPS aggro on all secondary targets. Even early strong healing could pull aggro and lead to healer death.

    So I guess, to replicate Vanilla/BC experience, all these dungeons should be subjected to the Skittish affix. And even then, tanks currently have a lot more multi target skills to build threat.
    Great point I forgot about! No threat really does change things doesn't it?
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  10. #10
    Blizzard stated once that vanilla dungeons were not included because they don't keep up with more modern dungeon in terms of mechanics.

    I don't see why this even matters since none of the mechanics matter in any of the other timewalking dungeons anyways.

    It would be nice if they updated them, however.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Because Vanilla dungeons does not exist anymore. They are Cataclysm dungeons, and we already have Cataclysm Timewalking.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadpants View Post
    Because Vanilla dungeons does not exist anymore. They are Cataclysm dungeons, and we already have Cataclysm Timewalking.
    ./thread

    10chars.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cetraben View Post
    Quite a few of the notable vanilla dungeons were actually raids. LBRS, UBRS, Scholo, Stratholme, heck even deadmines was a 10man raid.
    They actually weren't. With the exception of UBRS, all of those were designed as 5-man dungeons (hence why their quests were flagged as Dungeon rather than Raid). However, at launch, there were no caps for how many people you could bring into an instance (and yes, 40-man groups did somehow manage to wipe in Stratholme). Patch 1.3.0 capped this at 10 for all dungeons (and 15 for UBRS), and then in patch 1.10.0 they finally capped them all at the group sizes they were meant for. True, most players ran the endgame dungeons in groups of 10 because it was easier, but they were always designed, balanced, and intended to be (admittedly difficult) 5-man dungeons.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2017-04-28 at 05:43 PM.

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