Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashanen View Post
    Yea Bring fire on the same level as frost then let fire outdps frost on aoe by huge numbers. Selfish troll.
    So you're saying fire shouldn't be middle of the pack for a caster because our AOE is good?

  2. #102
    How does a discussion about Fire buffs turns into nerfs for Frost? People promoting Frost nerfs are the same morons who called for Fire nerfs due to Xavius/Helya padding I bet.

    Frost is where it should be. Fire and arcane are behind and need buffs to be on Frost level.

  3. #103
    Yesterday i finally decide to unlock new traits on fire artifact and went on broken shore to test on some rares, i almost laughed after looking at those 700k pyro crits when i can easily do 1.7 mil with Ice Lance and i almost puked when i opened skada
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    How does a discussion about Fire buffs turns into nerfs for Frost? People promoting Frost nerfs are the same morons who called for Fire nerfs due to Xavius/Helya padding I bet.

    Frost is where it should be. Fire and arcane are behind and need buffs to be on Frost level.
    To be clear, I don't think MOST people are promoting frost nerfs directly but pointing out that double IL is an exploit of unintended behavior that Blizzard already said would be patched.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Yesterday i finally decide to unlock new traits on fire artifact and went on broken shore to test on some rares, i almost laughed after looking at those 700k pyro crits when i can easily do 1.7 mil with Ice Lance and i almost puked when i opened skada
    I'd puke if I had to use skada.

    - - - Updated - - -

    At ilvl 899 on heroic I can report I'm doing 637k on Krosus in single target as fire after the buff. Warcraftlogs reports that as 90% of my ilvl bracket(899-901). Legos are belt and hero ring. Still way sucky compared to frost.

    My suggested buff for 7.2.5 was 7.5% upped to 10% to make up for future scaling issues for single target only. It would bring my 90%/ilvl fire mage single target to 700k at 900(aoe remain unaffected). It's not as big of a buff as it sounds(though I was accused of being a selfish troll for suggesting it).
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2017-04-26 at 04:24 PM.

  5. #105

    Another 6%?

    So the front page is showing a new PTR build and it lists a 6% buff to all fire spells. This is in addition to the 6% that is live now, correct?

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogfoot View Post
    So the front page is showing a new PTR build and it lists a 6% buff to all fire spells. This is in addition to the 6% that is live now, correct?
    pretty sure its the same 6% that we already got.

  7. #107
    Ah. I guess its new to the PTR, but not live, technically speaking.

  8. #108
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogfoot View Post
    Ah. I guess its new to the PTR, but not live, technically speaking.
    I wonder what their plan is with fire with 7.2.5

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    How does a discussion about Fire buffs turns into nerfs for Frost? People promoting Frost nerfs are the same morons who called for Fire nerfs due to Xavius/Helya padding I bet.

    Frost is where it should be. Fire and arcane are behind and need buffs to be on Frost level.
    The funny thing is classes like DH and other meele have been OP almost whole expansion and no one cares but frost was good for 1 patch and nerfs are inevitable.

  10. #110
    little too late, i lost my spot in my guilds raids when we got to krosus because fire sucks so bad. thx bliz

  11. #111
    As a person who has never played a mage in my life, I gotta ask...why does the class seem like such a shit show in legion? Like it was balance fine every other xpac from the numbers iv seen and now its just...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivium666 View Post
    Would you kindly go fuck yourself?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogfoot View Post
    So the front page is showing a new PTR build and it lists a 6% buff to all fire spells. This is in addition to the 6% that is live now, correct?
    its the same one. we got a 6% buff from hotfix on the server side, then the tooltips will be updated in the next client patch. thats blizzard's practice

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Tulis View Post
    little too late, i lost my spot in my guilds raids when we got to krosus because fire sucks so bad. thx bliz
    You would've lost your spot as any spec with this attitude tbh...

  14. #114
    Keyboard Turner
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    The funny thing is classes like DH and other meele have been OP almost whole expansion and no one cares but frost was good for 1 patch and nerfs are inevitable.
    Yeah that has been the most discussed thing in our TS after raids for quite some time. The problem with the fights we have in NH (EN wasn't so bad) is that melee have nothing to do (and most of the times actively refuse to participate in our case) most of the fights compared to ranged. So the reason they look OP is mostly due to the constant tunneling of the boss. So to have equal DPS all ranged must either forget mechanics and hope we can zerg the boss or just give up on competing, or Blizzard can realize that simulated DPS can be very close between classes but most of the time it doesn't take into account the actual time spent dps-ing and buff all ranged by 20% to compensate for the downtimes which was the case a long time ago in expansions far far away. However, in the world of m+ and other non-raid activities I don't think this is possible due to the huge outcry it will create.


    On the topic now. Fire was a fun spec for me in the begging of the exp just for the huge bursts and the fact that you had to know the fight relatively well to know when it is safe to tunnel with RoP. I was an advocate of the 7.1.5 changes because there wasn't really any choice in gearing and talents. If only they figured out the scaling curve a bit better it would have been nice. Right now its pretty much in the same state. I used talent 2 builds all the time - one for m+ and one for raiding before 7.2. Since 7.2 I switched to arcane, it might not be the best DPS spec but I still get that satisfaction when we kill a boss and I've timed my runes and other cooldowns perfectly while blinking around busting brands on Tich M.

    Fire doesn't need the % buff IMO. In this state, with this scaling it need a rework of the entire 2 HU into HS gameplay #makepyrogreatagain.


    P.S. Remember one of the streams where Ion said that in m+ melee will be a bit stronger due to constant interrupts and dps on the move, but in raids ranged will have the edge most of the time? Yeah right!
    Last edited by mcrius; 2017-04-27 at 01:00 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by mcrius View Post
    P.S. Remember one of the streams where Ion said that in m+ melee will be a bit stronger due to constant interrupts and dps on the move, but in raids ranged will have the edge most of the time? Yeah right!
    Oh sure!! melees are forced to do all mechanics while ranged just nuke the target dummy...
    ...
    ...
    oh...
    wait...
    Last edited by D3athsting; 2017-04-27 at 02:48 PM.
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Does it matter? Removing the adds will only make Fire worse, due to us actually gaining from the adds.
    Fire doesn't gain from krosus adds, they aren't stacked so you can AoE. fire, by virtue of being mages and having good blinks are also often tasked with soaking far back on the bridge which is a big dps loss that less mobile classes rarely have to deal with, not to mention since fire isn't a dot class their damage stops entirely when off the boss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyen View Post
    The way you think makes me cry. Everyone should be good at everything. The issue here is that Fire Mages are good at only one thing yet in certain situations can still be worse off and then just bad at the other thing. If everyone was good at everything then what matters would be the player and the playstyle of the class/spec. This just isn't the case with Mages at all.
    If everyone is good at everything then noone is good at anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexione View Post
    So, I just did H NH. The 6% buff isn't enough, but it's better than nothing. lol at those saying "Fire for Skorp" because even frost mages now out-dps fire on Skorp (Heroic) even after the 6% buff. For other bosses, we're still a good 150k or more dps behind Frost, and this is with Belt/Bracers. I'm not a "Pro" player but I'm not a bad player either, having been Fire since EN.
    If frost outdpses fire on skorpyron heroic then why are 100 of the top 100 mages on skorpyron fire?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by iNUKE View Post
    Idk, but I've started leveling my mage as fire yesterday after i saw this thread, and been topping DPS in dungeons against people 3 and 5 levels above me.

    And not only that, this is my 5th 110 and I've been running through content smooth as butter like i couldn't do with any other class before, Ret, fury, disc or even my first 110 a frost mage.

    Not sure if it's the 6% but as of right now, fire mage is the most OP class I've played this expansion.

    As an example i literally 1 shot mobs with half my 10 second rotation.. something i could never do with any other class I've played before.
    For questing and things like that it is great. That doesn't carry over to boss fights.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #118
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    Your realize people made this exact same argument for S2M and that got nerfed to the ground...hell fire got nerfed to the ground because people were cheesing Xavius tenacles ffs. Blizz doesn't care about any of this shit, their mantra is to nerf the class on top of logs if they dominate the majority of fights. Its that simple.
    The difference is that S2M was top dog down to like 30th percentile where people died before their first void torrent. Frost has a very high skill cap, requires you to ignore mechanics while having godly RNG and the right legendaries to top. Other classes are far more consistent in delivering that high damage. Combine this with the fact frost is losing any chance of very long IV uptimes with 7.2.5 due to the TV talent change and all the frost outliers are gone.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by mcrius View Post
    Yeah that has been the most discussed thing in our TS after raids for quite some time. The problem with the fights we have in NH (EN wasn't so bad) is that melee have nothing to do (and most of the times actively refuse to participate in our case) most of the fights compared to ranged. So the reason they look OP is mostly due to the constant tunneling of the boss. So to have equal DPS all ranged must either forget mechanics and hope we can zerg the boss or just give up on competing, or Blizzard can realize that simulated DPS can be very close between classes but most of the time it doesn't take into account the actual time spent dps-ing and buff all ranged by 20% to compensate for the downtimes which was the case a long time ago in expansions far far away. However, in the world of m+ and other non-raid activities I don't think this is possible due to the huge outcry it will create.


    On the topic now. Fire was a fun spec for me in the begging of the exp just for the huge bursts and the fact that you had to know the fight relatively well to know when it is safe to tunnel with RoP. I was an advocate of the 7.1.5 changes because there wasn't really any choice in gearing and talents. If only they figured out the scaling curve a bit better it would have been nice. Right now its pretty much in the same state. I used talent 2 builds all the time - one for m+ and one for raiding before 7.2. Since 7.2 I switched to arcane, it might not be the best DPS spec but I still get that satisfaction when we kill a boss and I've timed my runes and other cooldowns perfectly while blinking around busting brands on Tich M.

    Fire doesn't need the % buff IMO. In this state, with this scaling it need a rework of the entire 2 HU into HS gameplay #makepyrogreatagain.


    P.S. Remember one of the streams where Ion said that in m+ melee will be a bit stronger due to constant interrupts and dps on the move, but in raids ranged will have the edge most of the time? Yeah right!
    Ion also used to use fire as his example when talking about not wanting to nerf classes. Crit based classes have always had balancing issues. They just went to far with the fire nerfs the same time they reduced the % you got from secondary stats. They nerfed fire based on the old numbers so when it went live with secondary stats not adding up as quickly the spec took a huge hit. Mix in fight mechanics not being as fire friendly and the spec has been stuck out in the cold.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  20. #120
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    If in top 100 are 68 frosts and 1 fire, i do think that balancibg is kind of broken. With 20 specs ingame and many being very RNG dependant (some trinkets can make up to 100k dps difference) you will always see outliers. Just like you always see some outlaw rogue getting a 6buffs streak.

    The special thing about frost is: it isnt padding metres witj AOE. When fire mages looked overall in EN, it was padding metres from AOE.

    Frost and Affli get their ranks without padding metres:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...et=99&sample=1

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=100&sample=1

    The reason there arent even more frost mages in top 100 is affliction locks. They got hotfixed/nerfed though.

    I dont expect Frost nerfs to abilities. More likely they are going to fix double IL and retune ability damage. We are still early PTR.

    Most mages expect a fix for frost anyways. It is like S2M shadows knowing something will happen.

    Btw if they dont fix frost there is no way you are going to play fire in TOS. TOS doesnt have much AOE/cleave.
    They already killed frost outliers with the TV change. The spec will be completely fine after that, even if it removes a lot of the fun with fighting for maximum uptime.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    So you're saying fire shouldn't be middle of the pack for a caster because our AOE is good?
    The balance would usually be near top AoE => Near bottom ST. Near top ST => Near bottom AoE. If fire is top AoE and middle or higher ST, wheredoesthat leave the classes with worse aoe?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulis View Post
    little too late, i lost my spot in my guilds raids when we got to krosus because fire sucks so bad. thx bliz
    If you're pushing mythic Krosus as a fire mage then 600k or close to that shouldn't be a problem tbh...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •