Should LFR still be weekly locked.

[Eleccybubb]

Lockout should be increased to 2 weeks imo.

[Sinew]

Ha, no. Before LFR, the VAST majority of players that now do it didn't even touch a raid. The "journey" you're describing above is exactly what actual good raiders are still getting to this day.

I should be more clear, I mean this was the goal in raiding since lfr didn't exist. Now players see completing lfr as a goal, when in reality its just a menial task with small reward comparable to world quests and order hall missions.

I have to also wonder what players who didn't have any interest in pvp or raiding did in vanilla and bc, did they just hit max level and start leveling another character, leaving their last one to rot? I guess you could run max level dungeons, but the point of those was to get you geared for Molten Core/Onyxia, Karazhan/Gruul etc.

Did they go around the world completing low level quests? Seriously I can't wrap my mind around what content they were consuming that would be more enjoyable to them than raiding. There was less content in general, so I suppose there were a lot more people interested in PvP, but if your end goal wasn't either Grand Marshal or Naxx 40 (no matter how realistically far you were from that goal its still the end goal) , what were you doing?

[Banquetto]

Instead of unlocking LFR, they should put a lock on Mythics

[Sansnom]

I also am with the view that LFR should be removed from the game. It's pointless and just promotes bad habits in players

Very true. Like suggesting Blizzard should remove content from other people.

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I have to also wonder what players who didn't have any interest in pvp or raiding did in vanilla and bc, did they just hit max level and start leveling another character, leaving their last one to rot? I guess you could run max level dungeons, but the point of those was to get you geared for Molten Core/Onyxia, Karazhan/Gruul etc.

They were levelling their character. Not everyone hit max level at the start of TBC. And not everyone hit max at the start of WoTLK. But they eventually did.

[Jaylock]

You two have no idea what LFR did for raiding.
no LFR = No raids.
Blizzard themselves have stated that much.

this is the biggest heaping pile of bullshit ive ever read.

Raids were happening long before LFR and they would have continued until this day.

LFR is shit and should be removed. Period.

[Otrew]

i start raiding in LFR , when i get bored i started with normal, then heroic and now triying the first bosses of NH in mytych. For a new player in a mmo i think LFR is a good start, also for people without enough time to real raiding who want to see the content. So is fine, who cares if afk guy get 1299 ilvl titan forged?? he does not gonna be in the world race or something.

[Deleted]

As long as the LFR drops the same gear as raids, no. It'll just become yet another thing to farm.

It drops gear, 2 weeks on my shaman and ive gotten 2 stacks of runes.

[Daffan]

This. LFR is bad for the game.

It's good and bad realistically.

[Shelly]

I should be more clear, I mean this was the goal in raiding since lfr didn't exist. Now players see completing lfr as a goal, when in reality its just a menial task with small reward comparable to world quests and order hall missions.

I have to also wonder what players who didn't have any interest in pvp or raiding did in vanilla and bc, did they just hit max level and start leveling another character, leaving their last one to rot? I guess you could run max level dungeons, but the point of those was to get you geared for Molten Core/Onyxia, Karazhan/Gruul etc.

Did they go around the world completing low level quests? Seriously I can't wrap my mind around what content they were consuming that would be more enjoyable to them than raiding. There was less content in general, so I suppose there were a lot more people interested in PvP, but if your end goal wasn't either Grand Marshal or Naxx 40 (no matter how realistically far you were from that goal its still the end goal) , what were you doing?

There was a quote from I believe Ghostcrawler way back in oh either Cataclysm or Lich King where he stated that the majority of players never actually made it past level 10 or so.

Basically the largest portion of the player base - at that time - was paying $15/month for a very fancy chatroom.

[nekobaka]

There was a quote from I believe Ghostcrawler way back in oh either Cataclysm or Lich King where he stated that the majority of players never actually made it past level 10 or so.

Basically the largest portion of the player base - at that time - was paying $15/month for a very fancy chatroom.

I think that is in reference to people who pick up the game and then quit. Even at its peak there was still turn over. Getting people to end game was a noted on going issue from Classic. Cata tried with the 1-60 revamp along with heavy nerfs grinds to leveling. That was a mess largely with it taking away endgame content of which hurt subs. In MoP the devs went with character boost with the benefit of additional profits from altohalics who hated leveling and in turn being a win win.

[Nuba]

I actually believe LFR is bad for the game, its one of those (many) things the devs added to the game that sucked but now they can't go back and "we fucked up" because Blizzard is by far the proudest gaming company I know and never took back a single decision ever made.

Edit: Oh, I forgot there is Ben Brode, he is an exception and I admire the guy for it, but this sadly isn't the case for wow

[Deleted]

I do lfr with my wife on weekends. She travels M-F for work, and can only play Saturday and Sunday morning. So for her its either LFR or don't see the content all all. I suppose we could find a Normal NH group, except they all require 900 and AotC at this point.... okay I'm exaggerating, about 2 out of 10 take ilvl under 890 and of those two they'll boot you if you are bottom dps (which could be over 450k). At this late stage, you need Heroic Nighthold gear to get in a Regular Nighthold group. I wish that were an exaggeration. Go look in a queue and see for yourself.

Your problem with finding groups is partially caused by LFR.

Before Cataclysm there were some elitist pugs asking for GS (old version of ilevel), but most pugs were friendly. If LFR is removed, I'm sure more players will start organizing pugs with reasonable requirements. Guilds raiding normal mode on weekend will start appearing.

WoW before Cataclysm was much nicer than it is today, partially because of no anonymous match making. Assholes were known and people avoided them, thus encouraging people to behave. Anonymous match making with no punishment for bad behavior increases toxicity.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If lockout is removed, people will make LFR farm groups to farm titanforged gear and farm it all day long instead of spamming mythic+. Could be a good thing for players that would be put in those groups.

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That's lame justification of developer resource allocation. LFR didn't do that, bad management did.

how is it bad management if 90% of your players aren't playing part of your game why keep making that part.

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Just as a start point, I rarley do LFR, when I do, it's usualy Guldan on one or two characters to try to get the drought before it drops on normal or hc.

Tell me something both of you, have either of you used LFR, got gear then proceeded to raid at normal or higher?

If the answer is yes, you've got no fucking ground to stand on with that statement.

Honestly it's pathetic people complain and moan about LFR all the time when 9.99 times out of 10, it's usually those who are the first to que for it on release to get a few item upgrades to give them that little edge more before tacking heroic progress.

Tell me what is the difference between you doing that on launch and someone doing that 10 weeks after launch ? Besides your self inflated egos?

On topic,

As I say I barley can be arsed to do the place once these days, can you honestly sit there and say you'd be happy running it 5-10 times over a week?

You've also got to take into consideration, people would probably form higher level groups to exploit one boss wings like guldan for AP, or to potentially get a item that's titanforged (for the record, someone got a 925 drought from guldan in lfr >...>)

i did lfr once to see the raids when i didn't think i was gonna raid this expan then got into heroic with a friends guild with gear i had got form mythic+ and nethershard farming. i don't get why people cant just not do something they don't find fun some thing like lfr hurts no one as if you don't like it you can just not do it.

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Please show me where they said such thing.



LFR is bad because it's basically free loot for 0 difficulty and 0 effort. It's like giving a chest with random loot every week.

Creating a disconnection between rewards and performance is the worst possible direction for a MMO.

ya the free loot is garbage in a rare case lfr hero jimmy might get a great titan forge or a legendary but that doesn't effect you at all because lfr hero jimmy is still just gonna do lfr.

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Yes, it gives retards the illusion of actual raiding.

so does normal and heroic.

[Foj]

You two have no idea what LFR did for raiding.
no LFR = No raids.
Blizzard themselves have stated that much.

This is the basic idea.

Now, during MoP, LFR gear was reasonably rewarding, and when flex was introduced, flex and then normal PuGs were great fun for a huge number of people.

I think the tuning of LFR has become too easy, along with the gear being pointless, since then, and normal has become a little harder and is kind of an annoying step up.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Raid participation comparison is meaningless because its taken out of context. It used to be low because there was game outside of raids. Leveling took ages, gearing up in dungeons took ages. Game pace was slow. But you always had something to look forward to.

Today participation rate is high because there is nothing else to do. Leveling is instant, game pace is fast. 2-3 days and you are at max level with nothing left to do. And its free gear for clicking few buttons. Who doesn't like free gear?

As for people not seeing raids, its utter bullshit. Have you seen Ulduar? Yes, you have. Every player has. Some saw it when it was current content, some saw it later, but everyone saw it at some point. Seeing Ulduar in next expansion is equal to LFR - same lack of difficulty, but at least it required some organization.

Problem is today WoW is fast paced. Everyone wants instant gratification. WoW is no longer MMORPG, it is fast food dumbed down equivalent of what game used to be.

If you can't see bad things LFR brought to WoW, you are the delusional one. Before Cataclysm WoW was MMORPG, there were communities, there were pugs happening all the time. Those who wanted to see raids, saw them. Players had something to look forward to. Guilds were big, social and there was never lack of recruits interested in seeing raids.

After LFR many players lost interest in raiding because there is nothing to look forward to. Too many modes of same content is still same content. Pool of recruits got smaller. Guilds got smaller or died, realms died. LFR is anonymous, which means players no longer need to form bonds with other players, which led to much less player interaction in what supposed to be social game. Though some of it is not LFR's fault, it is 10=25 raiding model fault. Whole Cataclysm was clusterfuck of epic proportions. LFR was attempt to fix that problem, but it made things only worse.

Then group finder was added. With group finder it is easy to find groups for raids. We no longer need LFR. Removing LFR would make normal/heroic raiding more active. It would make players interact with each other again, forming new guilds or making existing guilds bigger. It would bring MMO back to WoW.

Though removing LFR would upset people who want rewards for doing nothing or want WoW to be solo game, so I understand why you think LFR was the best thing until free gold WoD missions table.

gearing in cata and wrath was super faster by the time of icc as people would blow though dungeons and you could just farm tokens or valor.

leveling is only instant if you are leveling an alt and have heirlooms. leveling in any expan since wrath has been hellishly fast if you knew what you were doing.

bla bla you think doing crap content is instant gratification bla bla.

lfr has done nothing bad for wow your delusional if you think it has, pugs still happen all the time there are still a ton of big social guilds and no at no point were there tons and tons of people lining up to see raids there have always been people who haven't tried to get into raiding at all.

you cant prove that players lose interest in raiding after doing lfr, or that it single handed killed guilds servers raiding ect.

group finding doesn't do jack for people who cant sit for a few hours to even pug normal, lfr is good for people who don't have time to do the whole raid at once but can sit down every now and again to do a ring. it also doesn't help people who are new to the game or suck to much to pug not to mention people put crazy high requirements in the group finder half the time.

removing lfr would upset people who don't have the time or the skill to raid get off your elitist high horse it doesn't hurt you at all as you can just ignore it and its a great thing for people who lack time or skill.

[FelPlague]

LFR is on a weekly lock so you cant afk run LFR for 24/7 and get mythic level teir and gear
in dungeons you atleast have to help, but in lfr you can just auto attack and afk and people wont notice, i can cast corruption (infinite for affliction) and then leave and still be middle ground on dps

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I remember when EN LFR came, this random potato guy getting titanforge trinket 895, and he was afk 99% of the time.

They dont call it LF Retards for no reason lul

And no I didn't gear alts there, i ran mythics for gear.

only people who cant make a reasonable argument resort to name callings. if you cant back up your ideas just don't air them no reason to try and insult people it just makes you look childish.

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I should be more clear, I mean this was the goal in raiding since lfr didn't exist. Now players see completing lfr as a goal, when in reality its just a menial task with small reward comparable to world quests and order hall missions.

I have to also wonder what players who didn't have any interest in pvp or raiding did in vanilla and bc, did they just hit max level and start leveling another character, leaving their last one to rot? I guess you could run max level dungeons, but the point of those was to get you geared for Molten Core/Onyxia, Karazhan/Gruul etc.

Did they go around the world completing low level quests? Seriously I can't wrap my mind around what content they were consuming that would be more enjoyable to them than raiding. There was less content in general, so I suppose there were a lot more people interested in PvP, but if your end goal wasn't either Grand Marshal or Naxx 40 (no matter how realistically far you were from that goal its still the end goal) , what were you doing?

i personally started lvling late bc hit cap in wrath then rolled around not really knowing much about the game. i did dungeons and pvp and quested until i level my second toon which is where i started to really learn about the game and then got into raiding.

[Dacu]

You two have no idea what LFR did for raiding.
no LFR = No raids.
Blizzard themselves have stated that much.

Completely outdated. Normal is fully puggable by anyone, and even heroic is puggable once you have a bit of gear (which you can get by sitting under the sentinax). Making normal and heroic more difficult would bring a more enjoyable experience for people who actually want to do the content but don't have the time to invest in a mythic progression guild

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Your problem with finding groups is partially caused by LFR.

Before Cataclysm there were some elitist pugs asking for GS (old version of ilevel), but most pugs were friendly. If LFR is removed, I'm sure more players will start organizing pugs with reasonable requirements. Guilds raiding normal mode on weekend will start appearing.

WoW before Cataclysm was much nicer than it is today, partially because of no anonymous match making. Assholes were known and people avoided them, thus encouraging people to behave. Anonymous match making with no punishment for bad behavior increases toxicity.

ya no in wrath almost every pug was asking for gear score even for the stupid easy raids like the vaults. i don't know where you got the idea that before lfr was a thing most pugs were friendly and every thing was sun shine and roses cause that was not the case.

and no wow was not at all better before cata you still had anonymous ass holes hell just look up ninja looting videos there are a ton pre cata ones i don't know what kinda of rose tinted glasses your wearing but there has always been asssholes and jerks since classic.

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Completely outdated. Normal is fully puggable by anyone, and even heroic is puggable once you have a bit of gear (which you can get by sitting under the sentinax). Making normal and heroic more difficult would bring a more enjoyable experience for people who actually want to do the content but don't have the time to invest in a mythic progression guild

if you don't have time to raid in a mythic guild how would you have time to raid in a mythic guild how would you have time to raid in a normal or heroic pug if they were harder, and the only reason you can pug normal or heroic without having to kick a ton of people who didn't know what they were doing is because of lfr. people who don't have the time or skill to raid normally can do lfr without having to worry about it. without lfr they would either be dragging down pugs or just not touching raids at all.

[sarym13]

Weekly locks? Sure. I can chill with 1 week locks per wing.

But their hole 2, 3 week cycles per wing is a bit fucking retarded.