Will WoW Ever See 13 Million Subs Again?

[Deleted]

People say it's a good game, but it's probably not going to last 12 years.

It's already on year 7 and growing strong

[Eleccybubb]

It's already on year 7 and growing strong

4 technically. We don't talk about 1.0 1.0 never existed!

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People say it's a good game, but it's probably not going to last 12 years.

It has the FF brand backing it. 11 is still going with a sub and that's 15 years old this May.

[Manabomb]

I've been thinking heavily on this idea and frankly: No. But it's not for the reasons one might think. For starters, the youngest generation seems to have little to no interest in MMO gaming. Moving on from that, the Chinese MMO market (where WoW has garnered about half of it's subscribers in the past) isn't doing so well as it's been flooded with cheap F2P/B2W/B2P MMOs while having a subscription type model is becoming even more difficult in that region.

Moving on from there, the design choices on Blizzards end just aren't friendly for attracting new players. You have a boost to the most relevant content with a ridiculous price tag (60$lol) or a 2 month grind to get to level cap. Not to mention, the entire basis of MMO's were "play with your friends!". The problem with that is now, almost every game you can think of has some kind of multiplayer capability and, unlike WoW, doesn't have a steep barrier of entry for beginning players.

This isn't even mentioning flying and Blizzard knee-capping itself on expansion releases the last 2 expansions with removing it and putting it back into play later on. It might even out "the cyclical nature of subscribers" to some extent, but it is not keeping customers or making new ones.

[Eleccybubb]

I've been thinking heavily on this idea and frankly: No. But it's not for the reasons one might think. For starters, the youngest generation seems to have little to no interest in MMO gaming. Moving on from that, the Chinese MMO market (where WoW has garnered about half of it's subscribers in the past) isn't doing so well as it's been flooded with cheap F2P/B2W/B2P MMOs while having a subscription type model is becoming even more difficult.

Moving on from there, the design choices on Blizzards end just aren't friendly for attracting new players. You have a boost to the most relevant content with a ridiculous price tag (60$lol) or a 2 month grind to get to level cap. Not to mention, the entire basis of MMO's were "play with your friends!". The problem with that is now, almost every game you can think of has some kind of multiplayer capability and, unlike WoW, doesn't have a steep barrier of entry for beginning players.

This isn't even mentioning flying and Blizzard knee-capping itself on expansion releases the last 2 expansions with removing it and putting it back into play later on. It might even out "the cyclical nature of subscribers" to some extent, but it is not keeping customers or making new ones.

2 month grind? I leveled in like 2 weeks casually without heirlooms. Maybe in Vanilla but it sure as shit does not take 2 months to level cap unless you are as slow as a sloth.

[Manabomb]

People say it's a good game, but it's probably not going to last 12 years.

I like how you say ignorant things about a game you've never played in a genre you claim to have enough expertise in to make assumptions and hypothesis about how long a competing game will last.

Your cute little bias is showing =).

[CptEgo]

It has the FF brand backing it. 11 is still going with a sub and that's 15 years old this May.

Yes, well I bet 90% of the playerbase are asian players.

[Manabomb]

2 month grind? I leveled in like 2 weeks casually without heirlooms. Maybe in Vanilla but it sure as shit does not take 2 months to level cap unless you are as slow as a sloth.

A new player will not power through 1-110 in 2 weeks. That is a veteran of the game speeds. But thanks for pointing out that one non-flaw. =)

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Yes, well I bet 90% of the playerbase are asian players.

So you don't have any idea what you're talking about? Good to know your input is pretty much useless over the subject of MMO's.

[CptEgo]

I like how you say ignorant things about a game you've never played in a genre you claim to have enough expertise in to make assumptions and hypothesis about how long a competing game will last.

Your cute little bias is showing =).

I base my assumptions on logic thinking, where you rely on wishful thinking. Look back at what has happened to almost every other MMO in existence. I also use my logic thinking when I 'assume' that my dog won't live to 25 years old, but I don't know that do I? Miracles do happen.

[Deleted]

Only way Blizzard will see 13mil subs possibly once again is by creating a new innovative game and even those chances are slim to none. WoW in it's prime/peak stages aka Classic/Vanilla up to Wrath had people no lifing it up (myself included), the game and expansions were new with most people not knowing how to play an mmo thus it was challenging with great content. The rants could go with a big wall of text but, I'll refrain.

Because people like innovation? Good joke.

WoW was successful because it wasn't so innovative. Every MMO after that (all those 30-50 WoW Killers) never got even close to WoW. And currently, MMOs dont have that potential. F2P shit is the future.

Subscription is anyways very unpopular. I dont believe any sub based game will reach this.

[CptEgo]

A new player will not power through 1-110 in 2 weeks. That is a veteran of the game speeds. But thanks for pointing out that one non-flaw. =)

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So you don't have any idea what you're talking about? Good to know your input is pretty much useless over the subject of MMO's.

I've been playing MMO's for 17 years.

[Deleted]

Yes, well I bet 90% of the playerbase are asian players.

What a bizarre comment but no

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I've been playing MMO's for 17 years.

What's that gotta do with a bizarre generalization? Balmung a NA server is always busy

[CptEgo]

What a bizarre comment but no

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What's that gotta do with a bizarre generalization? Balmung a NA server is always busy

Okay 89% then. Eh I don't know, I hate those asian MMO's. Every character looks like some stupid fucking manga kitty cat.

[Manabomb]

I base my assumptions on logic thinking, where you rely on wishful thinking. Look back at what has happened to almost every other MMO in existence. I also use my logic thinking when I 'assume' that my dog won't live to 25 years old, but I don't know that do I? Miracles do happen.

Are you saying that WoW is the only quality MMO on the market then (which is a blatant non-truth, lmao) or are you saying that you don't think any MMO will last longer than the life of your dog?

Frankly, your justification is all over the place at this point, as you really just have no idea any of the other competitors on the MMO market other than WoW, and with WoW not posting subscriber numbers anymore it's hard to justify your own confirmation bias by claiming one is more "popular" over the other.

Your logic fails to take into account that there are, infact, quality MMO's on the market that are, infact, active competitors to WoW. It's why Blizzard always tends to line up a patch "just in time" with an XIV expansion and vice versa. It's what competitors that take each other seriously do.

Was I off a little bit, or did I hit the mark right in the heart?

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I've been playing MMO's for 17 years.

And I've been playing MMO's for 16 years. What is your point exactly?

When you state that "oh yeah 90% of the player base is asian" it makes you look like an idiotic tool that has no idea what he's talking about, which is rich because you were just posting about how WoW is the only quality MMO on the market.

Either you haven't been out from under the WoW rock in 4 years or you just really have that much of a confirmation bias.

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Okay 89% then. Eh I don't know, I hate those asian MMO's. Every character looks like some stupid fucking manga kitty cat.

As oppsoed to comic book ape-humans, orcs that look like they just came out of the ghetto and fucking Pandaren?

The strawman fanboy is soooo hard.

Edit: Does this mean I just get to assume that 99% of WoW fanboys are fat basement dwellers, if you assume 89% of FFXIV is "lol asian"? Because I fucking love assumptions.

[Deleted]

Okay 89% then. Eh I don't know, I hate those asian MMO's. Every character looks like some stupid fucking manga kitty cat.

Western MMORPGs are littered with tropes too,

[Luxeley]

If Wow goes F2p or even straight up B2p, it's possible they'll see 13mil subs again, but I'd doubt it'll be sustainable. If they upgraded the game engine and introduced something like WOW II, I think 13mil subs would be a possibility. Otherwise, I'd say aliens landing in the middle of Manhattan possesses a higher probability of happening.

[CptEgo]

Are you saying that WoW is the only quality MMO on the market then (which is a blatant non-truth, lmao) or are you saying that you don't think any MMO will last longer than the life of your dog?

Frankly, your justification is all over the place at this point, as you really just have no idea any of the other competitors on the MMO market other than WoW, and with WoW not posting subscriber numbers anymore it's hard to justify your own confirmation bias by claiming one is more "popular" over the other.

Your logic fails to take into account that there are, infact, quality MMO's on the market that are, infact, active competitors to WoW. It's why Blizzard always tends to line up a patch "just in time" with an XIV expansion and vice versa. It's what competitors that take each other seriously do.

No, there are no 'competitors' to WoW, and there never has been. The problem right now is people are losing interest in MMORPG's altogether. WoW has never had real competition from any game. I don't even play WoW anymore, I'm just telling you as a fact that if you think anyone will ever come close to what WoW has done in terms of numbers over the past 12 years, you are out of your damn mind.

[Manabomb]

No, there are no 'competitors' to WoW, and there never has been. The problem right now is people are losing interest in MMORPG's altogether. WoW has never had real competition from any game. I don't even play WoW anymore, I'm just telling you as a fact that if you think anyone will ever come close to what WoW has done in terms of numbers over the past 12 years, you are out of your damn mind.

So you are just a World of Warcraft fan boy that has literal no idea about the greater MMO market.

I won't deny that WoW has done some great stuff in terms of popularity and numbers, but it is not, I fucking repeat, not the only quality MMO on the market. Just because you don't like asian MMO's does not make it any less of a quality competitor to WoW.

If you think just popularity and numbers is what drives quality in an MMO, -you- are out of -your- damn mind. And how the fuck do you even begin to explain WoD with that logic? 3.1 mill subs was the lowest point in years and there's no real way we can tell what the current levels even are.

If you're going to use populism as some kind of argument, try to actually get your facts straight.

Edit: Why am I even arguing about the quality of FFXIV with someone that has pretty much never even looked at the game, much less actually played it? You're clearly set in your ways and are clearly too bull-headed and stubborn to accept the cold reality that WoW is a feeble old man at best compared to the glory days of actual quality compared to the competitors it had. Those glory days are over, because WoW isn't the only quality MMO on the market. It's how competition and free markets and economics work. But you wouldn't know that because it's clear the only MMO you care about is WoW.

[Deleted]

If Wow goes F2p or even straight up B2p, it's possible they'll see 13mil subs again, but I'd doubt it'll be sustainable. If they upgraded the game engine and introduced something like WOW II, I think 13mil subs would be a possibility. Otherwise, I'd say aliens landing in the middle of Manhattan possesses a higher probability of happening.

Well a F2P or B2P game doesnt have a lot of subs though... by definition. There are some B2P/F2P models with subs, but the subs are pretty low compared to unsubbed players.

Again, you cant compare an MMO with 13€/month + 50€ Addon with a F2P game though or 2€/m sub.

[Zandalariprelate]

People dont want to invest a lot of time in a game which require to you do a lot of content unless they had the free time to do that, I mean for a person who can dedicate 1 or 2 hours of game he will play like dota 2, hots, lol or continuing in some action/adventure game like Far Cry Primal, Dark Souls, Hitman, Gta 5, Witcher and beside the art work of some tier had decreased a lot, I think legion do well in including a lot of content to do but some things like AP can be frustrated sometimes, since I do keys of level 10 with my guild to farm ap wasn't so big deal but I think blizzard should buff the AP for the weapons because in the beginning of legion it take more than 3 months to get 55 traits or more(even the first world guy in get 55 traits it take him at least 3 or 4 months, with just 1 and half would be more than enough)

[Deleted]

So you are just a World of Warcraft fan boy that has literal no idea about the greater MMO market.

I won't deny that WoW has done some great stuff in terms of popularity and numbers, but it is not, I fucking repeat, not the only quality MMO on the market. Just because you don't like asian MMO's does not make it any less of a quality competitor to WoW.

If you think just popularity and numbers is what drives quality in an MMO, -you- are out of -your- damn mind. And how the fuck do you even begin to explain WoD with that logic? 3.1 mill subs was the lowest point in years and there's no real way we can tell what the current levels even are.

If you're going to use populism as some kind of argument, try to actually get your facts straight.

Edit: Why am I even arguing about the quality of FFXIV with someone that has pretty much never even looked at the game, much less actually played it? You're clearly set in your ways and are clearly too bull-headed and stubborn to accept the cold reality that WoW is a feeble old man at best compared to the glory days of actual quality compared to the competitors it had. Those glory days are over, because WoW isn't the only quality MMO on the market. It's how competition and free markets and economics work. But you wouldn't know that because it's clear the only MMO you care about is WoW.

Well we nmeed to be more specific. On the western market (US and Europe) WoW is a market by far the biggest sub based MMO.