Does anyone else feel like they can't keep up?

[Deleted]

I play very casually now, as i play another MMO too and i don't have that much hours to game between work, girlfriend and irl activities.
My weekly time in wow is now around 10 hours max, of which about 5 are spent raiding.

Yet i have 2 characters above ilvl 900, both on 48 traits. Got my flying unlocked and got curve for all legion raids.

The thing is people are all like "zomgwtfbbq i need 309402940 traits to be able to do a raid", guess what? You don't!
All you really have to do each week is do a mythic +10 (easy once you've done one, you'll resume with a 7 key so with a decent group that's 2 runs; 1 to upgrade to 10 and then the actual 10). Do a few world quest emmisaries and clear nh on normal and heroic.

Don't join scrub groups in groupfinder asking 900+ for normal nh, those groups are bound to fail anyway 9 out of 10 times cause either the leader is clueless or it's full of idiots who think they are pro cause they are 905 ilvl and will bring a bad atmosphere or leave after one mistake.
The secret is making friends who have the same playstyle as you and set a semi-consistent weekly time to raid.

That leaves you weekly with:

+7 dungeon: 20-30 min
+10 dungeon: 20-30 min

Normal NH: 1-1,5 hour
Heroic NH: 2-2,5 hours

Clearing heroic EN/ToV for AP: 1 hour

Emissary each day: 7x 30 min

That's a total of 9,5 hours each week to keep up and stay current. That's all you need really., and that is without me being in a guild, just having a friendlist i built over some time. If you play 2 hours per day like you say, you'll still have 4,5 hours left to do any kind of other fun stuff you want in game

Unless you raid mythic, you don't really need to be minmaxed or have 54 traits in your weapon atm.

[aGit]

but every group indeed requires 900+ ilvl for the reason to carry the leader.

If you want to access this content, just make your own groups. Set your own requirements.

its not actually to carry to leader most of the time, it's just that people do not want to carry randoms in pugs. if i'm at 910, i want the other dps to be at or close to my ilvl too, no way in hell would i bring a full green 850 dps over a 900 one, even if the dungeon could be completed with a lower gear.


@op, you're playing a class with an ability to do all 3 roles, yet you choose to play retribution, this is fine but you shouldnt be whining over queue times because you chose to play an over saturated role.

[Heathy]

I don't think ill be 925 by the time tos is released maybe ill reach 910 if i get more titan forged drops but that is what it boils down to, if you don't raid mythic then your probably not going to get ilvl cap before the next tier. but thats ok, its most likely not going to be balanced around everyone being full 925, i'm guessing normal will require something like 895 and heroic 905 with mythic in the 915-20 range until they bump the ilvls.

I have managed to do all 3 of my specs weapons to lvl 42 with my disc weap being 44. not really interested in playing alts the ap mechanic makes it feels like any effort spent on an alt is effort not spent on your main. but this time leading up to tos gives plenty of time to get an alt to like 890 or so and stockpile aks. I get plenty of time to get saved to everything, then your left with mythic raiding that you don't do or farming m+ and wq's. or playing alts. once i've done heroic nighthold there isn't much else that can give me upgrades you get to a point where it slows down considerably unless you also get saved to mythic. you either do that anyway with your guild or you try to pug it with mixed results.

[Deleted]

Like?
10 chars

World quests, mythic plus dungeons, raids, mage tower challenge, invasions to name a few.

Also I'd appreciate it if you actually answered Ion's question, responses like this one will only get you put on ignore as I can't take you seriously and don't want to waste my time with people like you.

[Coffeexbean]

you dont need to keep up this isnt a job its a game.. just play when you decide to play on your free time and be content wherever that lands you

[Pull My Finger]

Depends on what you're trying to keep up with. The organized crap takes a ton of time. You either can and are willing to devote that kind of time of your life, or you're not.

[kamuimac]

I don't have a ton of time to play, an hour or two per day, and for the first time ever in this game, I just feel like it's impossible to keep up.
I'm not even close to hitting the required rep, still need a ton of stuff for Pathfinder 1, but that's not even the worst part.
The worst part is people's super exclusionary mindset that you suddenly need 900+ to complete a +4. Just a few months ago we ran +4 with 850. And go figure the raiding scene... "Link curve" and please over-gear the content you're trying to do by 20 ilvl. It's like... what?
My ret paladin, and only character, is sitting at 895 and does perfectly respectable damage, but I can literally spend half an hour in the queue before getting into a dungeon group higher than a +2, an hour or two for a raid that likely falls apart after the first two wipes. So what is there to do? Grind WQ's until I get 910 drops in all slots while everyone else progress to 925 via high dungeons and raids and then face the same problem? Is anyone else experiencing this?

Yeah, it's an mmo and it requires an investment of time, etc., and I'm certainly not looking for pity, but I'm wondering if I'm the only person feeling this.

find a guild of likeminded people or make groups yourself.

if you play very little dont expect a happy crowd willing to carry you just because you have life and they dont

its normal for people to grow old and dont have time for game - just accept it as reality and move on - play chilled and dont try to keep up you wont ever.

wow always required people to put 20-30 + hours a week to play on decent level - if you dont have it dont even try it.

- - - Updated - - -

if i'm at 910, i want the other dps to be at or close to my ilvl too, no way in hell would i bring a full green 850 dps over a 900 one, even if the dungeon could be completed with a lower gear.

.

and this attitude is exackly why game is failing so hard even if devs put as much effort

their design model is simply flawed if it allows toxic douchebag behaviour like this - and more - its actievely promotes it

this is why wow is shit in eyes of so many people nowadays compared to other game

its simply fatal flaw in design of game.

there are easy ways to counter it - world content and crafting should allow people to craft 920 itlv stuff in order to fight with elitest douchebags - since it doesnt people simply cba with anything but WQ and LFR - because 99 % of playerbase feel unwanted in any sort / type of group content in game besides those

[Deleted]

You want easy access to content, play with a guild or friends.

Yes i have a 909 DH so i can get into most PuGs without issue, but my alts are all under 900 ilvl. I just do mythic+/HC raids with friends. A lot of us are doing it on alts and "undergear" it for pugging. But because we are friends we have more fun, even if it takes a fraction longer to clear

[aGit]

and this attitude is exackly why game is failing so hard even if devs put as much effort

their design model is simply flawed if it allows toxic douchebag behaviour like this - and more - its actievely promotes it

this is why wow is shit in eyes of so many people nowadays compared to other game

its simply fatal flaw in design of game.

there are easy ways to counter it - world content and crafting should allow people to craft 920 itlv stuff in order to fight with elitest douchebags - since it doesnt people simply cba with anything but WQ and LFR - because 99 % of playerbase feel unwanted in any sort / type of group content in game besides those

arent you feeling a bit entitled here? the pug group is not there to boost your or anyone elses sorry ass. contribute or get left behind, if you're miles behind the others of the group in terms of gear, you're not contributing. Now if we're talking mythic0 content, it hardly matters, apart from principle, but 10+ and you'll notice it's your full green ass that drags the group down. Don't expect to be carried.

[Deleted]

The big failure of WoW's current design is to make people feel like they have to "keep up" with something, rather than just being able to enjoy whatever time they spend in the game. I don't remember ever feeling like I needed to "keep up" in vanilla. Just because someone else was raiding didn't make my low level dungeon experience any worse.

Yep. That nailed it. Its part of what made old WoW so good and modern WoW so crap. Its because of all time gating, catch up mechanics and pushing players into latest content by making previous content easy. Instant gratification mentality that everyone must see latest content now or content is wasted is what ruined it all.

[chronia]

find a guild of likeminded people or make groups yourself.


- - - Updated - - -



and this attitude is exackly why game is failing so hard even if devs put as much effort

their design model is simply flawed if it allows toxic douchebag behaviour like this - and more - its actievely promotes it

this is why wow is shit in eyes of so many people nowadays compared to other game

its simply fatal flaw in design of game.

there are easy ways to counter it - world content and crafting should allow people to craft 920 itlv stuff in order to fight with elitest douchebags - since it doesnt people simply cba with anything but WQ and LFR - because 99 % of playerbase feel unwanted in any sort / type of group content in game besides those

dont really see the douchebaggery in here, different groups for different goals.

If you want to do a fast clear of lets say NH normal for AP / Legendary chance, you go with the highest ilvl setup you can get if you do it trough the group finder. Seems pretty reasonable as you want to be done in like a hour or so. Nothing toxic there by default, now ofc you can run into a bad group with toxic players every once in a while, but normaly these are pretty good runs to be in.

If you are a 860-870 geared player look for progress runs of guilds that are still progressing, enough of those around each night, and probably they won't be toxic at all, atleast not in my experience when i run a alt or something in a run like that.

I don't think that anyone should feel unwanted, but expectations should also be reasonable, no one should be expected to boost ppl and no one should be expected to be boosted. Find groups at your own level of play, and generally you won't come into much toxic behaviour, however if you are a high end raider joining a progression group and they wipe and you get all over them about if, yeah expect them to call you elitist of whatever, if you are a low geared player trying to slip into a fast legendary run and then pull 200k dps or something, yeah ofc you can expect some flak sometimes from ppl that don't want to boost you.

[Deleted]

I mean, you can, and in this case it's definitely a lot to do with player perspective.

If you THINK you HAVE to clear M NH then you will do everything you can to clear it. You don't HAVE to, if you don't clear it you'll just fail your own expectations.

So whose fault is it for you not achieving your expectations then? Yours or Blizz's? Depends on the circumstance. Have other players cleared M NH? If so then it's not impossible, therefore it's your own fault.

So long as there is possibility to achieve your goals in game it is purely up to YOU to achieve them. If it ever becomes LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE, not just hard or arduous but ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE, then it's Blizzard's job to fix the game so that you have the opportunity to do what you set out to do. They pave a road, you have to drive down it to get where you want to go.

There are a lot of people who get into this mindset that if they don't meet their goal that some 3rd party is to blame.

"I'm a good raider and I can't get Mythic NH kills, clearly it's because M NH is too hard."
That's some construction less thinking. That's not addressing the actual problem, it's shifting blame.

"I'm doing well in my raids but I'm not getting M NH kills, some of my raid team is playing poorly."
More likely this is the place to be. Assuming you're actually not fooling yourself into thinking you're perfect this is most likely why you can't get a M NH kill.

"I can't raid 3 nights a week to prog through M NH."
That's a personal problem. Nothing Blizz can do about it.

"I don't have my 2 BiS legendaries so I can't compete with the top raiders."
False. It makes a difference sure but it's not completely impossible to compete with players with better legendaries. There are a ton of factors in play when it comes to raid performance. Fight knowledge, execution, coordinating with your raid team to be as efficient as possible, playing your rotation perfectly (or as close as you can get.)

Not Blizz's fault that your luck is worse than someone else's. Luck is not a fair concept, it's meant to be spontaneous to create a dynamic experience in game. RNG has always existed in WOW, if you had a huge problem with it you wouldn't be complaining, you'd have quit years ago and moved on with the other crybabies on this forum.

Perspective is EVERYTHING. We have ours as players, Blizz has theirs as Devs. They have a vision for the game and if yours differs you should expect to be frustrated. There's not a single game in existence that panders to every single whim of the small percentage of players that complain on online forums, especially not one as big as successful as WoW. Maybe it's time to take some of the blame for your individual situation and stop hamfisting your keyboard raging at Blizzard because they don't cater to you, cuz they never will. Ever.

All of that dosen't matter. Blizzard know that there is limitations of player skill and the time people have to play. They however choose to design the game in this way knowing that not all players will achieve goals because of it. It does not make it necessarily bad design but its still their design choice and therefore they have to take responsibility. It is a balancing act and if they get it wrong they take responsibility and change it - usually when enough money starts leaking out through lost subs.

[Coconut]

I disagree. Players always want what they don't have, which is kind of how the game got to this point to begin with. "But Blizz, I can't see the end game content! Give me easy mode!" "Oh, this isn't what I wanted, I wanted the easy mode with the same gear!" (reskins) People still want what they can't get.

That aside, maybe the player base and guilds breaking up after a single wipe is a very strong indicator of this being a problem too. Unlike days of past, players today will quickly abandon a guild, move on to another one, or just dumb themselves down to LFR to see the content because the strong bonds of guilds and learning how people play together no longer matters. Again, I blame that on Blizzard for making it too easy to just abandon everything you're working for and be caught up / see it all in another mode within days or a month tops. If that wasn't there, maybe people would actually stick to their guilds, try and learn the fights, and improve instead of just revolving door their way through this game.

The "bonds of guilds" no longer matter because of two reason: the age of the game and rampant elitism.

The game is old enough that most players have already seen several guilds or even realms fall apart and have already progressed through at least one raiding tier, or more likely several tiers from several expansions, so they don't get as invested as they did before. They can now spot the signs of an unhealthy environment a lot faster, and they have no interest in trying to fix it, or they are completely over being in a raiding guild altogether - you know, been there, done that, nothing to prove anymore.

On top of that, the players themselves are older, they already have a solid network of friends, and aren't that interested in making connections with new people. My friend list is a lot more important than a guild (if I go to a dungeon with my closest friends, our characters would be from 4 different guilds on 3 different realms), and if my old friends stopped playing, I'd probably quit instead of looking for new ones.

The other factor is elitism, not access to LFR. LFR was merely an attempt to avert the crisis that started in BC (maybe even Vanilla) with rampant guild poaching and exploded in Wrath with inflated gear score demands (a practice that continued since then in whatever variation available).

Guild poaching didn't happen because of LFR, it happened because people were unwilling to work as a team and put up with the guild's pace; as soon as they got the idea that they were better than their guildies or they had enough gear to move to better pastures, they ditched the guild and jumped to one with better progress. LFR wasn't the main reason for guild drama either, e-peen contests, gear-whoring, superiority complexes and vitriol towards guildmates were. If there is anything you can blame LFR for is that it gave tired guild masters and raid officers an opportunity to wash their hands of organised raiding, but these people earned their rest.


P.S. And there's nothing wrong with people wanting stuff. They pay easily 100-200 euros throughout the length of an expansion, yes, they are entitled to enter raids and get a tier recolor at any skill level they are comfortable with. What, do you want Blizzard to tell them they don't want their money, or that they didn't advertise the patch for them?

[Blayze]

I can't even be arsed levelling alts to do the class quests, because everything is locked behind dungeons people aren't queuing for and won't take 'undergeared' people to anyway.

[Talvindius]

All of that dosen't matter. Blizzard know that there is limitations of player skill and the time people have to play. They however choose to design the game in this way knowing that not all players will achieve goals because of it. It does not make it necessarily bad design but its still their design choice and therefore they have to take responsibility. It is a balancing act and if they get it wrong they take responsibility and change it - usually when enough money starts leaking out through lost subs.

I don't see what they could do to possibly accommodate more players in terms of skill differential. There are 4 raid difficulties, a scaling mythic dungeon system, there are even bodyguards for every class so you don't even have to quest alone.

It's more the player's individual expectations and their success or lack of success that dictates how mad they are at Blizzard for how hard XX content is.

If mythic raiding is too hard for you it's probably because you're not good enough, the fact that some people are is why it exists. The top 1% has such little content catered to them and complaining about it is just an insult to those players.

TBH we need proving grounds to start gating content again, it could also use an update.

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I can't even be arsed levelling alts to do the class quests, because everything is locked behind dungeons people aren't queuing for and won't take 'undergeared' people to anyway.

This is the mindset of a guildless player. You're doing it wrong.

[lmryll]

I recently returned to WoW about 3 weeks ago and I'm experiencing the same things as you -- ridiculous high ilvl requirement for everything or AoTC achievements. Best solution I've found to this is to just continue doing WQs/World Bosses to get my ilvl as high as possible and then start the raiding again in a month or two when the new raid (Tomb of Sargeras) releases.

Your current ilvl is enough to do Normal ToS so just skip M+/NH entirely and just wait for the new raid when groups aren't as picky.

[Niwes]

what you see here (900+ conditions for nhc) is just 1 of many natural consequences of the game design that wow has since years. and its blizzard that is responsible for. not the community. even if you argue that a playerbase (and every player) could do what they want, it stays an illusion. using the fastest, easiest, best, whatever way is in humans nature. therefore the community is not build by themselfs and their "free" behaviour. its build on "meta" game aspects, game design, tools and addons in game.

simple example: 2006 noone had searched for 900+ for nhc because you had to build a group 1-3 hours via /2. you needed to check more then ilvl and ppl talked with each other. today you can just wait another 2-3 mins and get some guy out there with a 900+ sticker on him. ofc this stickers will fast become the measurement value.

both has pro and cons. today you dont have to wait 2-3h, but you have mass group leaves, absurd ilvl conditions and so on. the result of all of this is: the game gets that community that the game deserves or better: looking for. the community cant build their self like they want, because of human nature. the game design forms the according community. and this game and his tools now forms a community that want 900+ for nhc. why? because the community can. because the game supports that.

if you dont like that, you should either join a guild and so have a small "community" that matches better and that is more independent from game design. or you are playing the wrong game or playing years too late. but a game that is designed like modern wow will always lead to that behaviour in case of pugs etc. its a natural consequence.

[Deleted]

So really not much.

Welcome to my ignore list, why you even bother to "post" on these forums is beyond me when you can't even answer a simple question asked by the Game Director himself.

Go ahead and do us all a favour and stop wasting people's time.

[Deleted]

The design philosophy and reward structure of modern WoW is indeed crap. I'd much rather play vanilla or TBC where you actually felt like you played the expansion, not the patch, and where your accomplishments and character progress actually felt meaningful and lasting.

It's really not all that different from back then, except the content is far more polished now.

Burning Crusade patches:
2.1: The Black Temple;

• Black Temple introduced
• Many new solo and small group quests and quest hubs
• Interface additions
• Druid epic flight form added
• New arena, Ruins of Lordaeron Arena
• Many, many, many bug fixes
• Class changes

Less content than 7.2 as the only thing this really adds is a new raid and some quests. Not sure how this would feel more meaningful or lasting than class quests or artifact quests either.

Patch 2.2 Voice Chat!:

• Many class balance changes
• Voice Chat
• Improved Chat Interface
• Mac Movie Capture

Not exactly what I'd call impressive, it's almost worse than the selfie patch in WoD.

2.3 The Gods of Zul'Aman:

• Zul'Aman
• Guild banks
• Season 3 Arena rewards
• Paladin Retribution Tree revamp
• Level 20-60 revamp

A small raid and some general changes, no-where near the amount of character progression or content as 7.2.

2.4: Fury of the Sunwell

• Isle of Quel'Danas zone with two new instances:
• Magisters' Terrace - 5-Man instance
• Sunwell Plateau - 25-Man raid
• New Badge gear!
• Combat log improvements

The first patch that could possibly be compared to 7.2's size, yet to claim that it would offer you more character progression? To feel more meaningful and lasting? Not really...

Vanilla and BC really wasn't that great, it just felt better because it was new and shiny.

[Toogoodman]

I don't have a ton of time to play, an hour or two per day, and for the first time ever in this game, I just feel like it's impossible to keep up.
I'm not even close to hitting the required rep, still need a ton of stuff for Pathfinder 1, but that's not even the worst part.
The worst part is people's super exclusionary mindset that you suddenly need 900+ to complete a +4. Just a few months ago we ran +4 with 850. And go figure the raiding scene... "Link curve" and please over-gear the content you're trying to do by 20 ilvl. It's like... what?
My ret paladin, and only character, is sitting at 895 and does perfectly respectable damage, but I can literally spend half an hour in the queue before getting into a dungeon group higher than a +2, an hour or two for a raid that likely falls apart after the first two wipes. So what is there to do? Grind WQ's until I get 910 drops in all slots while everyone else progress to 925 via high dungeons and raids and then face the same problem? Is anyone else experiencing this?

Yeah, it's an mmo and it requires an investment of time, etc., and I'm certainly not looking for pity, but I'm wondering if I'm the only person feeling this.

Lol to be fair man, my rogues equipped is 914 for M+ and appears at 919 and i still don't get invites to random M+s, everyone wants DHs, warlocks, and mages. But i do 99% of my M+ in guild groups, but i can understand your frustrations