Will blizzard nerf Mythic NH more before the new raid?

[Nitros14]

How many people need to get it done in your opinion?

I don't think anyone needs to get it done. But Blizzard has been doing this massively-overtuned-at-release-nerfed-later thing for a while and that seems to be their point.

Well fortunately it is that trivial.

Guilds getting to Gul'dan now won't skip much because their dps is likely to be considerably worse than yours. I don't think the fight being trivial for people who've already been killing it for weeks is the end of the world.

[Fleckens]

Guilds getting to Gul'dan now won't skip much because their dps is likely to be considerably worse than yours. I don't think the fight being trivial for people who've already been killing it for weeks is the end of the world.

Yeah this is pretty much the point I was making as well, while for people on farm you can skip a lot, and new guilds progressing will obviously avoid some mechanics but they will still have to learn most of it. Maybe new guilds can progress trying to skip the 2nd add but most will probably end up doing it. And since the damage hasn't been nerfed on the fight there are still plenty of things that can easily kill people progressing on it that they will have to learn to deal with.

I wouldn't be surprised if they also nerf his health further when they nerf him but the hard hitting nerfs to him will most likely be to his mechanics/damage output.

[Deleted]

Maybe new guilds can progress trying to skip the 2nd add but most will probably end up doing it.

Nah, guilds are completely skipping fel lord. On my guild we skipped even the bonds and eyes before the fel lord on the first kill. I also have some friends on the alliance progressing now on Gul'dan with a way worse comp and DPS and they are only 0,5% of Gul'dan HP to not spawn the add, so they will probably get an addless kill too. And this seems to be a normal thing right now even on progress guilds. Anyway, the add is pretty pointless, the thing is guilds are skipping 4th storm+5th eye combo, the worst part of the fight, with or even without BL on progress (my guild did skip it without BL having a somewhat bad comp for ST on Gul'dan), so guilds killing the boss this week vs guilds killing the boss 3-4 weeks ago are very very far on amounts of attempts, time and coordination needed. Gul'dan without 2nd add and 5th eye is a 150~pulls boss.

[Deleted]

You are talking strictly from someone who I would consider a "no lifer" that is probably way past 46-47 traits your average mythic raider currently has. We had to vantus rune Krosus for a kill and etc before any of the new traits.

No lifer? How delusional are you? HA this guy is better than me so he must no life. I log in just for raids and emissary. I probably spend less time in game than you. My artifact is actually at level 46. Just because someone is better than the game at you doesn't mean they play it more.

[Aggrophobic]

They will probably nerf it quite a bit, yes.

[Tojara]

Changing Gul'dan is certainly possible, but I don't think it will really change how the fight is approached too much. Yeah, most guilds that have recently killed or have been killing Gul'dan are going to have less DPS than those before, but gear and traits currently do change trends on bosses and how they are approached. People are going to gain what, ~2% damage with concordance (which should be pretty common in 2 maybe 3 weeks max). That's the last major nerf the boss is going to see before they actually tune the boss downwards.

Right now a lot of guilds lust in phase one to simply skip the second add. People don't skip the second add because it's dangerous, they skip it because it does a few things. One you can hammer into Gul'dan as soon as he's active in P2, and more importantly, you miss two of the harder combinations in P1, thus accelerating progression.

Regardless of how you do it most guilds also aim to not do the fourth storm and fifth eye combination. We never did it when we killed it, and planned exclusively around not dealing with it. If we had to do it, it likely would have set us back a lot more attempts. We found P2 to actually be easier than P1 when we approached the boss like this, but obviously from what I witnessed in videos, it's not something I would have wanted to deal with. Just another thing that would set people back even more time, considering it would take around 8 minutes to practice that portion of the encounter. P2 without that combination isn't that hard, with the only 'tricky' part being the third/fourth eye combination.

People can speak about how the third phase was once hard, but I don't think that it's really been hard for quite sometime. Yeah guilds first doing it had to actually worry about not having enough DPS, but even some of the earlier guilds with their 905-908 iLvL average were killing the boss 20-30 seconds before he went up for the third visions.

I honestly wouldn't expect a Gul'dan nerf to be large. A moderate damage/health nerf would basically make the one add phase one and the four eyes in phase two basically baseline, but for the most part, these aspects of the fight are already leaning towards that anyways. Unless they nerfed the boss considerably it's not likely you would be able to skip another eye in P2, and any combinations in P1 prior to the second add aren't exactly hard to begin with. That leaves P3, and honestly P3 is very easy, just gated by 8-10 minute attempts to see.

Elisande would be a weird boss to nerf because most of the difficulty (at least now) is the ability for your players to consistently dodge 9 sets of rings over the entire encounter. They would have to change her health a lot to bring that down to 6 or 3 (I know it's possible to do these now, talking more about consistency, and what's the norm) . If they went the route of nerfing the ring damage it would have to be a giant change to their damage to make it less punishing. Outside of that they could make the balls do less damage, or the beams do less damage?

[Deleted]

We've certainly noticed a difference on Gul'dan between first and second kill with gear and traits. I can't see much you would nerf on Gul'dan that would actually simplify the fight more - Tojara's covered the 'hard' skips, but the things that can and will wipe you will do so past a nerf (not healing orb, not getting in bubble in p3). Gear is the great Gul'dan nerfer - the hardest part of that fight is the time sink now. If you nerf Gul'dans HP you won't notice too much a difference as you already skip the hard overlaps anyway (we started 3 weeks later than most guilds so we did our kill with hero in p2 to beat 5th eye, but did 2nd add and combos. Punishing but not that bad).

Elisande: Probably ring nerf. HP nerfs arent needed (but will probably happen).

[Tojara]

I mean, lets be serious. Blizzard rarely targets specific abilities, it's likely going to be a 5% health/damage or 10% health/damage, and then call it a day.

[Daffan]

They shouldn't nerf it.

AP, AK and Gear will naturally make it easier over time.

[Deleted]

I mean, lets be serious. Blizzard rarely targets specific abilities, it's likely going to be a 5% health/damage or 10% health/damage, and then call it a day.

Yeah, this.
My guild is at Elisande atm and im fairly sure we can kill her in ~20 pulls. And then gul'dan is just a matter of time, and we've got alot of time for that.
The most obvious nerf to elisande would be to nerf the rings, but they're mostly just a learning curve and it takes X tries for a guy to not get hit by them.

[Deleted]

I mean they literally said in the Q&A last week that they are considering nerfing the last 2 bosses.

[Deleted]

our guldan first kill was in the End of februay with an ilvl around 904. Both elisande and guldan are untouched in difficulty, but they are indirectly pretty hard nerfed already (due to 910+ ilvls, new traits and some class changes). Both bosses are killed nearly 30% faster (elisande from 560sec to 390sec / guldan from 930sec to 660sec).

[Deleted]

You are talking strictly from someone who I would consider a "no lifer" that is probably way past 46-47 traits your average mythic raider currently has. We had to vantus rune Krosus for a kill and etc before any of the new traits.

When you have easily obtainable goals that you don't meet because you don't want to be considered a "no lifer" you don't deserve to complain when the content is too hard for you. You put in the effort first; then you get to complain.

I dont know where this "we raid mythic therefore we are entitled to kill the last mythic bosses" comes from, tbh it's a L2P issue in terms of mechanics for the last 2 bosses; for the vast majority of mythic guilds atleast.

[Gaidax]

I mean they literally said in the Q&A last week that they are considering nerfing the last 2 bosses.

This pretty much, it's a given they will nerf these and I expect pretty soon.

[rogoth]

ion said in the latest dev Q+A that elisande and gul'dan would be getting nerfs and that they were very much on their radar, so in answer to your question, yes, yes they will.

[Deleted]

When you have easily obtainable goals that you don't meet because you don't want to be considered a "no lifer" you don't deserve to complain when the content is too hard for you. You put in the effort first; then you get to complain.

I dont know where this "we raid mythic therefore we are entitled to kill the last mythic bosses" comes from, tbh it's a L2P issue in terms of mechanics for the last 2 bosses; for the vast majority of mythic guilds atleast.

The main issue with the wow community is the following mental attitude: "under my personal conditions I am a very good player", for this type of gamers its quite unbelievable that there are players around that could be so much better and searching for excuses in the daily/weekly play/raid time for example.

[Sarevokcz]

our guldan first kill was in the End of februay with an ilvl around 904. Both elisande and guldan are untouched in difficulty, but they are indirectly pretty hard nerfed already (due to 910+ ilvls, new traits and some class changes). Both bosses are killed nearly 30% faster (elisande from 560sec to 390sec / guldan from 930sec to 660sec).

comparing fastest to slowest? really? you do realize those fastest kills arent done by guild first kills, right?

and 904? you sure? If Im using warcraftlogs correctly, there are literally zero logged guldans kills with 902-904 ilevel and 3 905-907 kills during 7.1.5, according to wowprogress only top 3 guilds out of top20 were able to kill it with around 905 (and koreans with 902), otherwise even 4th guild and onwards needed 906+ with plenty of top20 guilds having 908 and i wont bother checking farther

Our progress group (yeah, we suck, started ellisande this week) has 907.7 average right now. We literally have the same gear half of top20 guilds had on their first kill, we have an advantage of new traits (and videos, but most guilds had that, and thats really countered by some nifty nameplate addońs we no longer have) and sure, they add couple of % to damage, but its not like people have suddenly 500k more HP and 200k more DPS just because of couple new traits, I think, as usual, people overestimate, how much impact new traits have (since like third of them are utility/defense/junk ones) and thats why there are still only like 300 guldan kills.

Can we kill him before ToS launches? well we have like 6 or 7 weeks for 2 bosses and we made some progress on Ellisande already, so maybe. Would I prefer getting Guldan kill in 4 weeks if last 2 get sligtly nerfed and wont be 150 pull bosses for us and we wont have to tryhard to the last day before Tomb? Hell yes!

[Deleted]

The concordance in itself is a pretty big buff in DPS, it's like an extra pot per minute on a boss fight. But elis and guldan could see some mythic nerfs to make it more killable to the rest of us mortals.

[Deleted]

comparing fastest to slowest? really? you do realize those fastest kills arent done by guild first kills, right?

and 904? you sure? If Im using warcraftlogs correctly, there are literally zero logged guldans kills with 902-904 ilevel and 3 905-907 kills during 7.1.5, according to wowprogress only top 3 guilds out of top20 were able to kill it with around 905 (and koreans with 902), otherwise even 4th guild and onwards needed 906+ with plenty of top20 guilds having 908 and i wont bother checking farther

Our progress group (yeah, we suck, started ellisande this week) has 907.7 average right now. We literally have the same gear half of top20 guilds had on their first kill, we have an advantage of new traits (and videos, but most guilds had that, and thats really countered by some nifty nameplate addońs we no longer have) and sure, they add couple of % to damage, but its not like people have suddenly 500k more HP and 200k more DPS just because of couple new traits, I think, as usual, people overestimate, how much impact new traits have (since like third of them are utility/defense/junk ones) and thats why there are still only like 300 guldan kills.

Can we kill him before ToS launches? well we have like 6 or 7 weeks for 2 bosses and we made some progress on Ellisande already, so maybe. Would I prefer getting Guldan kill in 4 weeks if last 2 get sligtly nerfed and wont be 150 pull bosses for us and we wont have to tryhard to the last day before Tomb? Hell yes!

With the ilvl you are right. I just took a quick look at our average ilvl on our firstkill on wowprogress (it is shown 904), but this is definitely (and seemingly) wrong tracked if you just take a look at the listed players ilvls. the correct ilvl was around 906. But I didnt compared our fastest with our slowest kill. The first 3 kills of guldan took us 15 to 15:30 mins. The last 3 kills took us 11 to 12 mins.

[Roiids]

No lifer? How delusional are you? HA this guy is better than me so he must no life. I log in just for raids and emissary. I probably spend less time in game than you. My artifact is actually at level 46. Just because someone is better than the game at you doesn't mean they play it more.

Def not delusional if .5% of the guilds are him. Maybe look in the mirror...