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  1. #1

    Is not ele changing anything in 7.25?

    Talent of ele is a good balance. But it is not good for the details.
    20 tear set effect of ele was nerf. I can not understand.
    Talent performance tuning should take precedence. The current FE is too weak.

    EB is obviously an overpower talent. Ele uses too much EB talent.
    Obviously there is no other talent worth considering in this column.

    EB contributes 10% in a single deal.
    In order for PE to be similar, 200~300% should be stronger, rather than 80% stronger.

    And why do Blizzard only know 5% and 10%?
    EF numerical adjustments only go up and down 5% and 10%.
    I was impressed overall that the balance adjustment of ele was troublesome in 7.2

    I think I need to nerf EB and improve overall spec performance.
    If this is the case now, you will not use PE and SE(though this will require thought due to cooldown time) even if the tier set changes.

    And ele needs a utility.
    Why does ele have a lot of utilities that are not needed in 20-player raid so that they become useless?
    Interrupts, meze, Bloodlust, are not useful in 20-player mode. These are too common.
    These are good when a person is small, like a 5-man dungeon.
    The fact that a rogue is a powerful survivor has a TO in Raid. It is different to ele.
    If Blizzard do not give a strong trait of survival, GoW should be the default property.

    I thought I would approach these issues seriously, but Blizzard seems to be reluctant to invest time on ele.
    I wish there would be a positive change in the situation where 7.25 is left in two months.
    I want you to understand that I do not want OP and I just want to play the game normally.
    Last edited by Ele man; 2017-04-30 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    EB contributes 10% in a single deal.
    In order for PE to be similar, 200~300% should be stronger, rather than 80% stronger.
    I don't think Elemental Blast is the issue.

    PE sucks because Fire Elemental sucks.

    The design of Fire Elemental is bad, the whole idea of summoning a guardian which does nothing except damage is flawed design for a Dps CD, unless it seriously packs a punch in certain situation.

    But Fire Elemental is a bad CD on Single Target and even worse in AoE.

    The Maelstrom generation from SET should become Baseline, or the duration / Damage adjusted so that the thing actually does some shit while it's up, open possibilities to synergize with Elemental Mastery or any Trinket Proc.

    Right now the thing is a floating searing totem with a CD, Overall damage is probably even similiar.

    Elemental Fusion sucks because it would go batshit insane on any encounter involving 2-3 targets to multi dot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    And why do Blizzard only know 5% and 10%?
    Because most people "prefer" those numbers, 5% sounds better than 7.5% or 8%.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't think Elemental Blast is the issue.

    PE sucks because Fire Elemental sucks.

    The design of Fire Elemental is bad, the whole idea of summoning a guardian which does nothing except damage is flawed design for a Dps CD, unless it seriously packs a punch in certain situation.

    But Fire Elemental is a bad CD on Single Target and even worse in AoE.

    The Maelstrom generation from SET should become Baseline, or the duration / Damage adjusted so that the thing actually does some shit while it's up, open possibilities to synergize with Elemental Mastery or any Trinket Proc.

    Right now the thing is a floating searing totem with a CD, Overall damage is probably even similiar.

    Elemental Fusion sucks because it would go batshit insane on any encounter involving 2-3 targets to multi dot.



    Because most people "prefer" those numbers, 5% sounds better than 7.5% or 8%.
    You say bad design, but I do not think so.
    However, apart from my personal opinion, it is necessary to balance the talents.

    The 75 talents of ele are clearly out of balance.
    Since the FE is a bad design, does it justify its poor performance? So is it natural to use only one talent?
    Currently, FE is only a 3% deal in 3m fight with bloodlust. Even if you fill 100% uptime FE with a 20 tier set, you will see a trade less than 10%.
    Evidently EB is stronger than FE even in this situation. However, with recent changes You will not be able to fill 100% uptime.

    EF is apparently not good. If EF is good, why are not people using it in Telaran?
    The optimum balance of EF is somewhere between 5% and 10%.
    Blizzard likes 5% and 10% so much that they can not pick between them.
    Pessimistically, it is evidence that the balance designer does not study ele as long as Blizzard chooses a number somewhere in between.
    This is a big complaint I have about ele. I work hard on this spec, but Blizzard does not seem to be.
    Last edited by Ele man; 2017-04-30 at 03:23 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    EF is apparently not good. If EF is good, why are not people using it in Telaran?
    Because the number of targets reduces with each phase on mythic.

    EF is good for the first phase and is bad beyond that phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    Pessimistically, it is evidence that the balance designer does not study ele as long as Blizzard chooses a number somewhere in between.
    There is more than enough evidence that Blizzard "does not study ele" without resorting to such things as talent numbers.

    Prime example being that AoE is the sole niche of that Spec, which is the worst niche because encounters that actually require a fuckton of AoE Dps are extremely rare and there are multiple other spec that excel there as well without having to deal with inferior ST dps.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2017-04-30 at 03:54 PM.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    There's been very little in the way of numbers tuning on the PTR so far, it's mainly been the mechanical changes to classes that need it. Numbers tuning will come later. Mechanically I think elemental is fine, I am interested to see what numbers tuning comes though. Tomb has less AoE opportunity so elemental really needs a single target boost since it's strength doesn't look like it will be valued as much.

  6. #6
    i think it's elementals turn to be last on the dps meter and enhance to be midpack again but we'll see.

    the tier set for ele is dogshit and flawed in so many ways, the stats we value most crit/mastery do nothing for the set, 100% crit with fire ele up and mastery doesn't affect flame shock, so we'd need haste, but then we lose dps to make a tier set better, overall gain? probably nothing.

    secondly the place it would shine is getting many flame shocks up, but that's also shit, because CL+EQ can do 3 million dps, so the time you put up a load of flame shocks emptied your maelstrom another shaman could of wrecked the meters with cl+EQ. you simply can't flame shock spread it with path of flame via lava bursts, and cl and eq it's too much clutter in an aoe rotation while an arcane mage could press 1 button and do the same AoE it's a complete fucking mess.

    overall our set bonus seems to be useless and i'd be surprised if we didn't prefer T19 4 piece but all titanforged.

    without a big single target buff ele is back to emerald nightmare shit tier getting carried by single target/two target beast specs.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because the number of targets reduces with each phase on mythic.

    EF is good for the first phase and is bad beyond that phase.



    There is more than enough evidence that Blizzard "does not study ele" without resorting to such things as talent numbers.

    Prime example being that AoE is the sole niche of that Spec, which is the worst niche because encounters that actually require a fuckton of AoE Dps are extremely rare and there are multiple other spec that excel there as well without having to deal with inferior ST dps.
    Sorry, but EF was not used in heroic Telaran. Your words have no proof.
    Do not try to prove in words. Evidence is needed.

    EF is not as good as you think, even with 3 targets, because the performance of CL increases with the multiple target. The biggest problem is LR. 3 target, it is better to use the dps, which has a lot of Maelstrom to keep the LR and keep the earthquake. Therefore, if EF is good, it should be at least 3 targets to be spread. (This is why EF is not used at Odyn.) Do not you think that there are too many conditions? This is the evidence that I think is weak.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    Sorry, but EF was not used in heroic Telaran. Your words have no proof.
    Because the final phase lasts like 40 seconds if you're doing it properly.

    Honestly, using heroic as example here is bogus, because on heroic it's the same shit in reverse, except that the Encounter duration is shorter and the phase where EF could possibly be decent is even shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    (This is why EF is not used at Odyn.)
    It wasn't used because it's the same story, it's mediocre during the first phase, potentially decent during the second and sucks in the last phase (which is a burn phase btw.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ele man View Post
    Do not you think that there are too many conditions?
    The condition is quite simple actually, have an encounter similiar to Hellfire Highcouncil or Iron Maidens, but those encounters, which infested almost any Tier previously, are currently missing.

    But i'm not going to argue that EF is a good talent, it's one of those "binary" talent that just suck all the time or become the best choice (almost) everywhere.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2017-05-01 at 01:34 PM.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't think Elemental Blast is the issue.

    PE sucks because Fire Elemental sucks.

    The design of Fire Elemental is bad, the whole idea of summoning a guardian which does nothing except damage is flawed design for a Dps CD, unless it seriously packs a punch in certain situation.

    But Fire Elemental is a bad CD on Single Target and even worse in AoE.

    The Maelstrom generation from SET should become Baseline, or the duration / Damage adjusted so that the thing actually does some shit while it's up, open possibilities to synergize with Elemental Mastery or any Trinket Proc.

    Right now the thing is a floating searing totem with a CD, Overall damage is probably even similiar.

    Elemental Fusion sucks because it would go batshit insane on any encounter involving 2-3 targets to multi dot.



    Because most people "prefer" those numbers, 5% sounds better than 7.5% or 8%.
    PE makes fire ele hit really hard, the issue is that EB is still a lot better, also they are making the fire ele do more than just damage with the T20 4p.

    Elemental fusion is not insane on 3 targets, if you dont believe me just look at botanist where you have 3 targets then 2 targets but still not a single person in the top 100 is using it.

  10. #10
    The spelling in this thread is atrocious.
    Last edited by mmoc1d3ba0029e; 2017-05-02 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Infraction

  11. #11
    Meh, I think our mechanics are generally OK. The only changes I'd like to see would be a Buff to Earth Shock and an increase to the Maelstrom generation for Lightning Bolt.

    Just those two would help with multiple issues.....our ST damage and the idea that Earthquake would ever be better than Earthshock as well as making sure we always use Lightning Bolt on Single Target.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    as well as making sure we always use Lightning Bolt on Single Target.
    What situation are you finding where LB is not being used ST?

  13. #13
    elemental needs a massive single target boost, alot of fights in tomb of sargeras are single target with high movement
    similar as trilliax
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...867&dataset=90

  14. #14
    Elemental Blast is an awesome spell with an awesome animation so the fact that it's the go to spell is not a problem for me. I would rather like it to be baseline though since I don't like the fact that a spell that is in our normal rotation is from a talent. If they made Elemental Blast baseline they could have the buffs from the baseline version be lower and then use the talent to enhance the power and perhaps duration of the buffs that you get. That would also make it more in line with the PE talent since that also buffs an existing spell rather than giving you a new spell that you didn't have before. It also makes it easier to tune the talents.

  15. #15
    I don't like dots but I think the spec just has to much direct damage. What about something like a strong 100 cost malestrom dot stronger than a single es at lower gear levels might be hard to fit in a es before the dot expires but as X-Pac goes on we could fit a es or 2 in b4 the dot expires. Would be something ticking beside a weak fs and would have something going on during movement outside procs.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingsve View Post
    Elemental Blast is an awesome spell with an awesome animation so the fact that it's the go to spell is not a problem for me. I would rather like it to be baseline though since I don't like the fact that a spell that is in our normal rotation is from a talent. If they made Elemental Blast baseline they could have the buffs from the baseline version be lower and then use the talent to enhance the power and perhaps duration of the buffs that you get. That would also make it more in line with the PE talent since that also buffs an existing spell rather than giving you a new spell that you didn't have before. It also makes it easier to tune the talents.
    Yep, EB should be baseline. It's ridiculous that a spell 100% of Ele shams take is a talent choice. Terrible design by Blizz.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Regalbeast View Post
    Yep, EB should be baseline. It's ridiculous that a spell 100% of Ele shams take is a talent choice. Terrible design by Blizz.
    EB was nearly unused during WoD and early phase of Legion.

    It's a talent and rather bland one at that to be honest, there is no mechanic that somehow makes EB awesome in certain situation, the spell is simply too basic to be "good" on it's own, raw damage numbers make the spell good or bad.

    What is rather sad that so far we've received no statement regarding Gust of Wind.

    I mean let's be honest, most Elemental Shaman rather choose the bench over skipping Gust of Wind on almost any encounter, the skill provides to much utility in Raids, PvP and Outdoor content to be skipped.

    Yet there's no statement why this central skill has not become baseline.

    Is it because it would make Elemental too similiar to Mage due Blink?
    Then why was Spiritwalkers Grace removed from Elemental?

    We can guess at best, but this is truly a topic i would love to hear some thoughts from the devs.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2017-05-02 at 04:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    i think it's elementals turn to be last on the dps meter and enhance to be midpack again but we'll see.
    Doubt it.

    Ele tends scale well as the expansion progresses. .

    But we'll see.

  19. #19
    scale well? One of our secondary stats is already capped, and blizzard inst doing anything about it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    scale well? One of our secondary stats is already capped, and blizzard inst doing anything about it.
    I haven't played much Legion but as weird as it is Ele generally does scale really well in later tiers because haste and mastery are so good for Ele. Can't speak as to current expansion but there it is.

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