Seeing tanks out heal healers makes healing feel really bad

[ponies]

I've been seeing so many tanks out healing healers, or healing in comparison to.
particularly in dungeons. it makes healing feel really crummy.

[Deja Thoris]

Thanks for sharing.

[Deleted]

How do you think dps has it in dungeons with tanks pulling absurd amount of deeps?

[Bloodmagix]

If a tank is out healing you I'm guessing there isn't much to heal, just throw dps out in that situation while still keeping people topped. If a tank is out healing you and people are not consistently topped then I'm assuming healer is just bad? Idk..those are the only 2 cases I've seen personally.

Mage | Demon Hunter | Druid

[Polarthief]

How do you think dps has it in dungeons with tanks pulling absurd amount of deeps?

I've never had this problem, granted I'm 910 iLvl. Now when the tank is 30-50 iLvls ahead of me, then yes, I can see the issue.

The healing part is more or less overgeared tanks who can predict their incoming damage better than healers who aren't taking the damage and, based on latency, have to wait for health bars to change at a delayed rate compared to it happening instantaneously for the tank.

[Deleted]

I've never had this problem, granted I'm 910 iLvl. Now when the tank is 30-50 iLvls ahead of me, then yes, I can see the issue.

The healing part is more or less overgeared tanks who can predict their incoming damage better than healers who aren't taking the damage and, based on latency, have to wait for health bars to change at a delayed rate compared to it happening instantaneously for the tank.

Try with a good aoe tank and you'll notice, stuff like full thrash bears

[Gestopft]

If the tank is any good, and outgears the dungeon, it's pretty easy for them to do more healing. Especially tanks that can absorb damage.

[Breccia]

I've been seeing so many tanks out healing healers, or healing in comparison to.
particularly in dungeons.

Raid more.

Healers don't spam heals in dungeons because they don't need to. Tanks spam heals in dungeons because it's part of their rotation. It's an invalid comparison.

If you take, say, H Krosus, you see a different story. The 25th percentile at ilvl 900 for each of the healer classes is over 400k. Disc are close behind at 330k.

At the 75th percentile, DK lead tanks in healing at 350k. Warriors are next at 300k. Everyone else is at 200k or so.

So even a well-performing tank won't outperform a struggling healer in a raid environment. Top of the line tank, maybe. Shitty-ass healer, who cares. But realistically, the chance of any tank outhealing any healer in a raid environment that matters is pretty damn slim.

[Shoat]

I play blood dk, which means I do outheal healers, but I don't understand what's so weird about that. That's just how the spec works - if you had a "damage not taken because of mitigation abilities" meter for the non-selfheal-based tanks you'd see similar numbers on that as you do on my healmeter.

The "tank outdamaging a DPS" part I don't understand either, but that's just because blood has rather low dps, at least compared to what bears or warriors dish out.

So even a well-performing tank won't outperform a struggling healer in a raid environment. Top of the line tank, maybe. Shitty-ass healer, who cares. But realistically, the chance of any tank outhealing any healer in a raid environment that matters is pretty damn slim.

I don't think I can agree with that, all it takes for a tank to be #1 heal is to actually take enough damage, which does happen on, for example, mythic krosus (where I roll well above 500k HPS with our weakest healer at 450 and our strongest at 600).
Tank HPS, or at least mine, is almost exclusively limited by how hard the boss hits ("not needing to heal" happens more often than "cannot heal fast enough"), at least for our raid it's absolutely normal for me to be equal to or higher in healing than our healers (exception being wet-noodle bosses like chrono or elisande or such), and the more perfectly the raid plays mechanics and the less damage they take from stupid shit, the further ahead I get with my healing.


Again, I have no idea how the OP thinks a tank can heal a lot in a dungeon or low-end raid environment where there's not enough damage taken to achieve a high HPS, but you're certainly wrong if you claim that in a real raid environment a tank never outheals healers, because that's the only place where a tank CAN outheal healers.

[Yunaqt]

In dungeons I run feral affinity and barely heal anything unless I have to and maximize damage, just hots and spot heals.

Raids there is no way a tank will come close to me unless mid pull I die irl.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...st/#metric=hps

[Gevoth]

Close your healing meter (or switch it to damage and compete there) until there's a reason to look at it. The purpose of it is troubleshooting encounters and friendly competition. There's nothing to troubleshoot when there's very little to heal and you can't compete with the absorbs of geared tanks in content we all greatly over gear. When there isn't anything to heal you should look to contribute to the group in other ways such as damage and utility.

[Breccia]

I don't think I can agree with that, all it takes for a tank to be #1 heal is to actually take enough damage, which does happen on, for example, mythic krosus (where I roll well above 500k HPS with our weakest healer at 450 and our strongest at 600)

.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=30&metric=hps

At the 30th percentile, Mythic Krosus, ilvl 900+, every healer should be doing 500k+

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ght&spec=Blood

And for you to top that, you're over the 80th percentile. Same ilvl of course.

My original statement stands. Assuming your numbers are accurate, you're an overperforming tank of the highest healing class, and one of the healers in your group is not very good at their job.

Or, you're using a metric not shared by such things as warcraftlogs or recount.

Again, I have no idea how the OP thinks a tank can heal a lot in a dungeon or low-end raid environment where there's not enough damage taken to achieve a high HPS

The addon he's using counts absorbs and overheals, and the healer isn't casting because there's no damage.

[Etamalgren]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing

...I'll just leave this here.

Yes, I'm memeing it up with an absurd gearset.

[Shoat]

.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=30&metric=hps

At the 30th percentile, Mythic Krosus, ilvl 900+, every healer should be doing 500k+

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ght&spec=Blood

And for you to top that, you're over the 80th percentile. Same ilvl of course.

My original statement stands. Assuming your numbers are accurate, you're an overperforming tank of the highest healing class, and one of the healers in your group is not very good at their job.

Or, you're using a metric not shared by such things as warcraftlogs or recount.

I am using warcraftlogs to measure, but to call our healers shoddy (or, god forbid, call myself overperforming) is a bit of a stretch based on those alone (when the top percentile that everyone is measured against includes lolmemeruns like presented by yunaqt). Especially since we run two and a half healers (our weak healer at 450 is the disc priest) and when you say "every healer should do 500k+", isn't that for the krosus setup with only 2 healers?

Then again it's pointless to argue further, unusual group setups and other complaints aside, you do have the numbers to back up that your statement is true on a general level.

I guess that means all our guild's healers from EN to now have been underperforming, or maybe we're always running one healer too many, thus dragging their heal meters down, which we probably only get away with because we have one "always has 90%+ rating" warlock to pass dps checks.

[Deleted]

If a tank is out healing you I'm guessing there isn't much to heal, just throw dps out in that situation while still keeping people topped. If a tank is out healing you and people are not consistently topped then I'm assuming healer is just bad? Idk..those are the only 2 cases I've seen personally.

Mage | Demon Hunter | Druid

You have never seen a good BDK, have you?

As BDK you can keep up 1M+ HPS for quite some time. I had 2.4M HPS for Moroes during the first 40s (heroism), and then it went down considerably, but there is no way any healer could hope to match that - especially since most of the damage sources are gone after HT and only the boss remains.

So yeah, some tank classes can definitely out-heal a healer. But I don't really see any problem with it.

That being said, dungeons and raids are completely different beats. In raids, you usually don't see a tank outperform a heal. There are enough people to heal and enough damageon the group so that the heal has enough to heal, and tank dmg is usually not that completely insane.

[Teri]

There's a big difference between avoiding damage, and healing it back up, and some classes are based off shields, some off heals, some off flat % damage reduction cooldowns.

% Damage reduced don't show on meters at all for instance, the combat log doesn't say, Mob hit tank for 50 (50% reduced), but it does say things like 50 (50 absorbed) for a base hit of 100. in the same mitigation situation.

Take vengeance DH for example, they got demon spikes, but it wont show on meters, soul barrier/prydaz (absorb), and healing/overhealing from soul cleave/fragments etc will also show.

DH 1, could have better spikes uptime at the right moment, and still reduce more damage then DH 2, while meters might show DH 2 as more healing as he took more damage to heal back.

Overheals show but expired absorb shields do not show either how much was technically left.

[Deleted]

How to out-heal your healers; steal their heals.

[Muffinslayer]

I really miss going OOM. It felt like a huge part of the games.

[Girthquakes]

I really miss going OOM. It felt like a huge part of the games.

I agree, I dont even remember when going OOM disappeared from gameplay all together. I remember back in the day you had spirit and mana regen per 5 seconds and stuff like that which defined good and bad healers. Pretty much any max level healer could with sufficient magnitude, but only geared healers could withstand healing for the duration of a long fight.

[Spiffums]

Tank self heals is supposed to take the strain off the Healer because usually Tanks don't stand in the fire and sometimes we have to stand in the bad due to mechanics. All this bitching and complaining about tanks DPS or Heals is just stupid. OHH NOES!! We are going to complete the raid/instance quicker and with less headache because Tanks self heal and do dps and healers dps.