"Pay to Win"

[Deleted]

the combination of #levelboost, #sellruns and #wowtoken makes a little niche of the game p2w and there is nothing illegal.

the only thing you cannot buy this way is an top100 ranking on wowprogress, so its not the total win. but with money you can surpass 99% of the playerbase without investing any type of handwork in the game.

I personally wouldnt call it P2W if you buy gold for money and get some consumables and BoE epics out of the ah, because you didnt have won anything at this point. But if you pay for an raid / m+ clear run its a whole different thing.

[Extremity]

Cant someone ban you again for stupid posts?

WoW doesnt have a single P2W element.

Pay to win is when game provides gear/damage/buffs with money that are relevant to the active progression of the game.

Rift and earring slots as example.

Buff scrolls in old MMOs back in 2003-2005.

To be fair, you can effectively buy gold directly from Blizzard (regardless of whether or not the amount fluctuates) which is a "pay to win" element.

Whether or not that one thing results in the game being classified as "pay to win" is another discussion; I personally don't think it does, but from one could argue that having any element technically means it is. The only thing saving Blizzard from a more concrete label is the fact that you can't really buy top-end gear through gold, limiting the "gold for real money" aspect's impact on endgame. BoE gear is never the greatest, and when it has been comparable the amount you could wear was limited. You can pay for raid runs with gold, however, and technically get best-in-slot gear purely through that... but I don't think I'd hold that against Blizzard or use it in an argument against them.

The problem with selling currency, though, is they're going to be immediately classified as "pay to win" by a *lot* more people not only the instant they allow high-end gear to be purchased directly from them, but also when they have top-end level gear easily available as BoEs for every slot. Even if they don't sell the gear directly to the players, if you increase the number of high quality BoE pieces and let somebody gear up solely through gold you're pretty much selling them the gear directly. As soon as you sell the game's primary currency you're selling anything that can be obtained using that currency. It's a slippery slope, imo.

[DarkBlade6]

You can pay for literally everything in the game, mount, achievement and most importantly the gear(carry). So if you got the money, you can P2W in WoW. And to be honest, this is the only way top guild can afford to progress in Mythic non stop 24/7 in the beginning of a Tier.... they sell carry the rest of the time !!

[potis]

To be fair, you can effectively buy gold directly from Blizzard (regardless of whether or not the amount fluctuates) which is a "pay to win" element.

Whether or not that one thing results in the game being classified as "pay to win" is another discussion; I personally don't think it does, but from one could argue that having any element technically means it is. The only thing saving Blizzard from a more concrete label is the fact that you can't really buy top-end gear through gold, limiting the "gold for real money" aspect's impact on endgame. BoE gear is never the greatest, and when it has been comparable the amount you could wear was limited. You can pay for raid runs with gold, however, and technically get best-in-slot gear purely through that... but I don't think I'd hold that against Blizzard or use it in an argument against them.

The problem with selling currency, though, is they're going to be immediately classified as "pay to win" by a *lot* more people not only the instant they allow high-end gear to be purchased directly from them, but also when they have top-end level gear easily available as BoEs for every slot. Even if they don't sell the gear directly to the players, if you increase the number of high quality BoE pieces and let somebody gear up solely through gold you're pretty much selling them the gear directly. As soon as you sell the game's primary currency you're selling anything that can be obtained using that currency. It's a slippery slope, imo.

Which as i already mentioned, only those that are disconnected from the game claim WoW is P2W and the others can see there is an element of it, but not actual way/use.

As far as i have seen in this post, those that are yelling P2W, are not even playing the game , or consider LFR raiding, or they are that white-knighting casual crowd.

Aka, no clue how the game actually works, just crying for the sake of crying.

You can buy as many carry runs as you want, you can buy whatever you want from the AH, you will always be behind.

Cause

1)The seller will never accept you get every item, if a trinket that never drops finally drops they will give it to the guild.

2)Wearing irrelevant HC gear when everyone is wearing Mythic gear, only the LFR scrubs see it as P2W.


P2W applies when there are things that provide a clear boost over anything else in the game.

As example many MMOs that followed the Lineage style of +1--->to +15 items, there were MMOs that sold scrolls to nullify the chance of failure to upgrade the items from 1-10, then to nullify the chance of failure from 10-15 for even more cost.

That is P2W cause you can get the best available gear by buying it.

Or Unique Buff scrolls that prodive a Damage/Defense boost that doesnt exist in the game in any other form, or stacks with the other defenses, that is P2W.

You can get as much gold you want from Blizzard, to buy stuff off the AH, it does not provide a single benefit further than what exists in the game, hence it can not be P2W.

[Deleted]

but I don't think I'd hold that against Blizzard or use it in an argument against them.

I do, because they are doing nothing to prevent this (In fact i think they are incentivizing the boosting scene), and because this boosting situation is affecting the gameplay, specially to the people who want to do the content by themselves, by putting time and effort in beating each part of the content, how? by affecting the pool of people who would join and participate in said content by letting them buy the rewards.
The risk/reward structure of the game is greatly affected by this situation.

[potis]

I do, because they are doing nothing to prevent this (In fact i think they are incentivizing the boosting scene), and because this boosting situation is affecting the gameplay, specially to the people who want to do the content by themselves, by putting time and effort in beating each part of the content, how? by affecting the pool of people who would join and participate in said content by letting them buy the rewards.
The risk/reward structure of the game is greatly affected by this situation.

Irrelevant, you can tell who got boosted or not easily, Armory helps with that, its quite the opposite, easier to weed out the useless scrub that got carried.

9/10 Times they have 1 kill of each and maybe 1-3 kills of the first few bosses and are wearing mostly HC gear, you can easily identify them.

The first couple of weeks you cant, but after the first 3-4 weeks they are easy to tell apart.

Assuming you can read the armory.

[Deleted]

You can get as much gold you want from Blizzard, to buy stuff off the AH, it does not provide a single benefit further than what exists in the game, hence it can not be P2W.

Can we at least agree that there is an issue with getting things that belong to specific content without doing that content the way it is supossed to be done?

[Yriel]

P2W applies when there are things that provide a clear boost over anything else in the game.

As example many MMOs that followed the Lineage style of +1--->to +15 items, there were MMOs that sold scrolls to nullify the chance of failure to upgrade the items from 1-10, then to nullify the chance of failure from 10-15 for even more cost.

That is P2W cause you can get the best available gear by buying it.

And yet then some fan will say to you that you are not guaranteered to win any fight with that gear so its not pay to win. Fans will always argue that their game is not pay to win, just like you do.
There will never be a consent because the term "pay to win" has no definition.

[potis]

And yet then some fan will say to you that you are not guaranteered to win any fight with that gear so its not pay to win. Fans will always argue that their game is not pay to win, just like you do.
There will never be a consent because the term "pay to win" has no definition.

Doesnt matter what some fangirl low iq player will say.

P2W has a definition, when the definition is met, you lose the argument.

Those MMOs have it.

When Blizzard starts selling as example as the game is now 925 item level gear in the cash shop, we can argue P2W.

If they start selling a flask in the cash shop that stacks with the other flasks and provides 10% extra stats, we can cry P2W.

[ComputerNerd]

Not at all. It's P2HBMP though... that is Pay to Have the Best Mounts and Pets.

It's also P2SK... Pay to Skip Content.

They are milking this motherfucker like there's no tomorrow...

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You're so wrong. You see, "before" it was indeed possible, but the punishment was death (you could have the account closed for buying gold). Now it was basically allowed directly from Blizzard. It's like the government saying "ok, from now on you can buy all the cocaine you want... BUT you need to buy it from us". This doesn't make cocaine better

No, I am not wrong.
Fundamentally you could do the same.
It is not made pay to win by the presence of a legitimate alternative.
That was a trade players created, not blizzard.

Punishment or not, it didn't stop it.
In fact it thrived.

You can try to pretend that blizzard were introducing something new all you want.
They didn't.

As usual players create an issue, and it is always blizzard's fault.
No, the players are the reason that market existed, and they are why blizzard provided their own alternative.

Does the token itself change what you can pay cash for ?

No.

If paying to gain an advantage is pay to win, then it existed before.
You can't then introduce the additional requirement of who you pay.
You can't change the definition to suit your argument.

[potis]

Can we at least agree that there is an issue with getting things that belong to specific content without doing that content the way it is supossed to be done?

That is just a problem created by the community and something Blizzard cant address unless they go back to the old raid lock system and create even more problems.

This existed since Vanilla, it is nothing new, its just way more noticeable cause more people can do it with so many difficulties existing AND there is a system where you can spam it, as the Group Finder tool.

[Deleted]

easier to weed out the useless scrub that got carried.

But that is the problem, because he got carried he will remain a "useless scrub", if he could not pay for that he should then improve as a player.

[potis]

But that is the problem, because he got carried he will remain a "useless scrub", if he could not pay for that he should then improve as a player.

Its the mentality of gamers, nothing you can do about it and you werent to a different discussion thats taboo on this forum.

You do not mention "Skill" and "Time" on MMO-Champion, 9/10 posters have the mentality of :

I PAY 13E I DESERVE MY ITAMS AND LFR IS RAIDING SINCE I HAVE 10 MORE FRIENDS WITH ME.

[Deleted]

That is just a problem created by the community and something Blizzard cant address unless they go back to the old raid lock system and create even more problems.

Why can not blizzard forbid advertising of gold boosting as it is done with real money boosting services?

[potis]

Why can not blizzard forbid advertising of gold boosting as it is done with real money boosting services?

They did, when its company related, as they did 2 months ago, shutting down a boosting/gold selling German or Polish site, didnt you see the 8 million they won in court?

When the advertising is happening from a player inside the game they need to research more, therefor its slow or non-existent.

[Deleted]

They did, when its company related, as they did 2 months ago, shutting down a boosting/gold selling German or Polish site, didnt you see the 8 million they won in court?

When the advertising is happening from a player inside the game they need to research more, therefor its slow or non-existent.

I think they do pursue gold selling yes, but not boost selling for gold.

[Deleted]

Paying to see you get permanently banned from these forums forever so you'd get off your pathetic trolling lifestyle and get a fucking job.

Infracted

Wow this was a bit brutal. Kind of uncalled for.

[Quibble]

Blizzard is doing nothing to prevent this from happening

Why should they? I see nothing wrong with boosting people.

Yes they do, they get an advantage over non paying players, that like them, do not take part in raiding or the most demanding parts of the game in terms of difficulty.

So.. They get alittle better gear than players that have no interest in the content that that "better" gear is from.. Why excatly is this a problem? It still does not make them "win".

Maybe I should have phrased it like:
"Do they get any sort of advantage over non paying player, of which power advantage the non paying player can not achieve themself ingame? No"

[uglykermit]

Paying to see you get permanently banned from these forums forever so you'd get off your pathetic trolling lifestyle and get a fucking job.

Infracted

As title reads, I hardly post but I had to just LOL at this.

[Deleted]

Why should they? I see nothing wrong with boosting people.

Don´t you? so you would be ok with an NPC selling boosting services for gold placed in Dalaran then?