Upcoming Mythic Keystone Changes

[Hotsforyou]

Sweet, so they want me to run less keystones than i do now. Every dungeon should have a separate stone that you can level for that dungeon. This random keystone crap sucks IMO. I really miss challenge modes. Let us focus on trying to get high times in 1 dungeon and only give us loot on the first one or something.

[Deleted]

My perspective is one as part of a group that is pushing very high keys. While I don't have the time to perfect every dungeon like some of us do, many players in my guild play beyond an M+ rating of 2k. We also boost customers through anything they are willing to pay for.

The changes, as usual, have positive and negative aspects. For the sake of clarity, let's break down the incentives that are being touched here. There's AP, gear and M+ rating. Depending on where you stand with your character, these carry different weight.

The issue of AP as a reward was already tackled to some extent by the changes to AP/time ratios. The system has become a lot more reasonable than it was during the time of Maw farming. The new changes will preserve the AP reward for higher keys, which is nice. However, with the adjusments to AP progression and the corresponding final weapon trait, things have cooled down a bit anyway. If this is different for the frontier progress raiders, feel free to correct this statement. I'm just not convinced that the addition of AP does much to incentivize people to do higher keys.

Secondly, there's the issue of farming gear from M+. In a way, the changes adjust the curve, increasing the incentive to do higher keys for gear. Currently, there's a steep increase in the curve close to +10 and a hard drop afterwards. Since you can't increase the ilvl of the gear that drops, you can only make it more difficult for yourself. While that does not change in principle, you now have a much flatter curve around +10. This reduces the incentive to carry people for the sake of their key, but doesn't take it away entirely. It does, however, incentivize people to progress slower past +10 to get as much gear out of their keys with as little effort as possible. However, this shouldn't be a big problem. For one, since your next key is random you can't specifically target a dungeon to exploit the mechanic. People will still continue to chainrun keys where they need gear; there will still be CoS boost groups. Furthermore, since you can't cheese the system by intentionally depleting your key either, you can only use the mechanic to selectively adjust your difficulty. That's a good thing as well, because the incentive remains to complete the dungeon. There's no harm done if you reset to make your life easier. The worst that could happen would be that people don't go beyond 10 who are farming loot on a random basis. Seems familiar.

Thirdly, this does nothing to the motivation of runners who push for the highest keys possible. In order to push keys you already need to have the gear to do it. If you don't have the gear, see point 2, make a +10 boost group. The motivation for people to do the highest keys has never been AP or gear, but M+ score on wowprogress. That won't change with these adjustments. What it will do, however, is to make it harder to push these scores. Previously, you could just bash your head against a +20 key until you managed to beat it, resetting it over and over again. That won't work anymore, which challenges the most motivated M+ runners even more. While it sucks to now have only one chance to pull of a perfect run per key, it won't have an impact on the competition because everyone plays by the same rules. It means that you can make even fewer mistakes if you want to be on top, which is just fine, but if you do make a mistake you'll at least still get a small reward for your time.

tl;dr: Good stuff.

[GnomeEU]

Wow, can't believe this took them almost a year to fix

[grexly75]

Why would you think it's per person? The CHEST contains two items full stop. Not two items per person, just two items. (with a third if you beat the time). If it was per person, that would mean the chest contains10 items which would be insane.

Are you 100% sure on that as what is stated in the Blue post is very vague on that part..

":When you finish a Mythic+ dungeon, the chest at the end will contain two items and an appropriate amount of Artifact Power."
":If you beat the timer, regardless of how quickly, there will be a third item in the chest."

As you can see they are being quite vague on this part.. Only real way to know what is going on is to get onto the PTR and actually see if this is a per person or per group thing.. The other thing is depending on the item there is still the loot trade option either way have to see what those on the PTR are finding out..

[david0925]

Are you 100% sure on that as what is stated in the Blue post is very vague on that part..

":When you finish a Mythic+ dungeon, the chest at the end will contain two items and an appropriate amount of Artifact Power."
":If you beat the timer, regardless of how quickly, there will be a third item in the chest."

As you can see they are being quite vague on this part.. Only real way to know what is going on is to get onto the PTR and actually see if this is a per person or per group thing.. The other thing is depending on the item there is still the loot trade option either way have to see what those on the PTR are finding out..

because there is two item per chest now? why do YOU think it would suddenly turn into 10 items per chest?

[Deleted]

By the way, how stupid do you have to be to think that ACQUIRING a keystonewouldbe a roadblock to anyone? Really, Blizzard? You thought the mythic dungeons were too hard for the majority of players to get keystones going?

[grexly75]

because there is two item per chest now? why do YOU think it would suddenly turn into 10 items per chest?

As I said the way it is worded it is quite vague some folks out there are wanting some real clarification.. At the moment the only way we will is those on the PTR finding out.. And so far on the PTR forum apart from the Blue thread, there are no other threads about this..

[Mhyroth]

I don't even know where people are getting that from, it even says in the post 2-3 loot per CHEST lol, reading comprehension at an all time low

And only 1 Chest spawns.

[Deleted]

Why not slightly increase the chance for titan/warforge at higher levels? Doesnt has to be much but atleast 0,5% higher chance per m+ level.

[Najja]

God, chances of getting the loot you want AND for it to forge decently is already bad... Now each run will have an even lower chance to drop what I need, thats great....

[Hobb]

Why would you think it's per person? The CHEST contains two items full stop. Not two items per person, just two items. (with a third if you beat the time). If it was per person, that would mean the chest contains10 items which would be insane.

The chest is personal, meaning only you can see and loot it. Just like the chests are right now.

With the new system they're doing away with the 2nd and 3rd chest and combining them into a single chest. Basically if you complete the run within time or not you'll be rewarded with the equivalent of a 3 chest run with the current live system.

[Asrialol]

People who dislike this change isn't very clever, I assume. Mythic+ wasn't something they made for raiders / others to get AP. It was as an alternative end-game method for people who doesn't raid. The main incentive to do M+ should be, and should've always been, gear.

[Onikaroshi]

People who dislike this change isn't very clever, I assume. Mythic+ wasn't something they made for raiders / others to get AP. It was as an alternative end-game method for people who doesn't raid. The main incentive to do M+ should be, and should've always been, gear.

Which they're cutting in half, so if that's the reason to do it, they just went and lessened the reward.

- - - Updated - - -

The chest is personal, meaning only you can see and loot it. Just like the chests are right now.

With the new system they're doing away with the 2nd and 3rd chest and combining them into a single chest. Basically if you complete the run within time or not you'll be rewarded with the equivalent of a 3 chest run with the current live system.

It's 3 items per group.... they're not going to go and take 6 items and make it 10-15...

6 items per group in 7.2, 3 items per group in 7.2.5, there's no other way to swing it, its a huge nerf to loot.

[starlite]

I love the continuing discussion whether the new loot is per person or group. IT IS 2 or 3 PER CHEST TOTAL, FOR THE ENTIRE GROUP. there is only one chest, ever, no matter how you finish.

They are not giving 10 pieces of loot MINIMUM, for failing the timer. 15 for making it. while never risking a depleted key.

This new change cuts the amount of loot IN HALF from current. half the loot, get it? we get 6 now for 3-chesting. which is hilarious considering the supposed intention is to more gear for undergeared players

[Ealyssa]

Usually you can BARELY make it to 3 chests, if doing 10+ or higher runs. Also, there are only a few long instances - usually it wont take more than 3-5 mins to upgrade the key no more than +1. Call it smoke break?

+10 is easy 3 chests. Even on my alts, really seems more of gameplay/group issues.

And again what you do while AFK is irrelevant to a discussion about maximising loot/AP. loosing 10 minutes to take a coffee, a dump or a smoke is nice and all. But it is certainly not gaining time on farming MM+ cause you avoided 1 key level...

Hey you can even watch a movie between 2 dungeons. Still make that totally irrelevant to the point.

[Ardrial]

The chest is personal, meaning only you can see and loot it. Just like the chests are right now.

With the new system they're doing away with the 2nd and 3rd chest and combining them into a single chest. Basically if you complete the run within time or not you'll be rewarded with the equivalent of a 3 chest run with the current live system.

Seriously, you are just wrong. The 3 chests are there for everyone and currently give 2 pieces of gear per chest TOTAL not per person. That's 6 pieces TOTAL not per person.

With the new system they are making it 3 items TOTAL, not per person.

And only 1 Chest spawns.

Yes. He was agreeing with the guy he quoted and not trying to contradict what he was saying.

[glowpipe]

Yes, make the already unrewarding shit fest that is m+ even less rewarding. No use at all to run higher than the weekly cap now. The ap is laughable, the tiny shot at loot with 3 chests is bad enough. Now its 1 chest with 2 items instead ? gg

[Deleted]

Yes, make the already unrewarding shit fest that is m+ even less rewarding. No use at all to run higher than the weekly cap now. The ap is laughable, the tiny shot at loot with 3 chests is bad enough. Now its 1 chest with 2 items instead ? gg

Wait, isn't it 2 items PER PERSON? Like when you get +3 chests right now?

[Onikaroshi]

Yes, make the already unrewarding shit fest that is m+ even less rewarding. No use at all to run higher than the weekly cap now. The ap is laughable, the tiny shot at loot with 3 chests is bad enough. Now its 1 chest with 2 items instead ? gg

Seems like they're pulling a 6.2 Demo lock on us: For whatever reason they have no desire to carry M+ over to 8.0 and are therefore killing attachment to it so it won't hurt as much when they pull the plug.

[Arca404]

The amount of crying in this thread with so many variables yet unknown is staggering. The community is pretty stellar at jumping to conclusions about the (theoretical) speed and severity at which the sky is falling.

So the total loot is cut in half?
Awesome, we DE 4 out of 6 at minimum anyway on a 3 chest. God forbid you can run BRH on +5-9 40 times in a week skimming for a TF item. This is the first expansion that dungeon loot has been worth pursuing and you kids are getting crazy that a limitation is being placed. And it's not even that limiting! Less so than raids and less than previous expansion's once per week dungeons.

2 less chances for a legendary on a 3 chest?
Who says they won't tweek that chance? I've seen, personally and observing others, more legendaries from the new Legionfall Recompense rewards than mythic+.

There's no incentive to boost pug keys?
Maybe the AP/hour will be better than capping your +15 and resetting. Since this is clearly not a selfless concern and purely selfish, who cares if you leave that pug high and dry with a key he can never complete. No matter how much you kid yourself, you did not rush that 830 through a 3 chest +5 so he could gear up. It was because he had the right key for AP farming.

But the AP won't be worth the investment!
Pretty sure it already scales with difficulty/efficiency. Where does it say that an "appropriate" amount of AP is the same amount it rewards now?

Well, now the filthy casuals can just run the time out and get loot!
Not how it works, still have to kill the last boss for loot. Also, aren't these the filthy casuals that you were already taking through 3 chest runs? I feel like you're running dry on reasons to complain.

TL;DR, Suck it up buttercup, it's not even on ptr yet.