Just finished 3/10 mythic, is it time to give up now?

[Deleted]

There are no more hard bosses in nighthold, the bosses that where "hard" last weeks (eli and gul'dan) are already nerfed. The hard part of nighthold was tight dps checks, mechanic wise is pretty simple. No point on farming 3 bosses in half an hour then giving a 6 days break if you have a semi-competent guild, it's not about loot; at this point you are getting 1-2 traits a week that easily replace 4-5 ilvls of gear.

once you have 46/47 traits you dont really get anymore traits that increase your dps anymore untill you get concordance

[Queen of Hamsters]

Thats up to you. If it doesn't sound fun don't do it, there's no prestige at all in PvE in this game, so don't worry about it.

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Why? A guild is just a tool. The guild I've been raiding with since the start of Legion is just a guild that I'm in. It's not my guild. They're people I raid with and there is no bond there at all. I login and if I feel like doing dungeons I do dungeons with them, on raid night I raid with them. They may as well be NPCs as little as I interact with them other than that.

That's nice, not everyone view guilds and join guilds with/ following the same mentality.

[Emerald Archer]

once you have 46/47 traits you dont really get anymore traits that increase your dps anymore untill you get concordance

Even condordance is trash, the first one, sure nice 10k dps gain, after that? Fuck that. For every 8 traits, that's the stat equivalent of an augment rune. But no, apparantly each individual trait will be worth 4-5ilvls.

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There are no more hard bosses in nighthold, the bosses that where "hard" last weeks (eli and gul'dan) are already nerfed. The hard part of nighthold was tight dps checks, mechanic wise is pretty simple. No point on farming 3 bosses in half an hour then giving a 6 days break if you have a semi-competent guild, it's not about loot; at this point you are getting 1-2 traits a week that easily replace 4-5 ilvls of gear.

Like, you've killed Gul'dan. So surely you had enough braincells on during the fight, to know the nerfs won't really make a difference to the hardest parts of that fight.

Unless you're just a fool who wants to feel good about himself because he got the pre-nerf kill? Like grats, it's awesome you got that, but it's sure as shit not a pushover now. It's still not an easy fight at all.

Elisande yeah, became a meme now, Augur again a meme, both cheesable with high dps. Not "easy" for a guild progging on them, still definitely not krosus/spellblade/tich/bot level of easy, Elisande still requires you to do all mechanics.

You're a melee right? Or maybe a tank/healer? "Mechanic wise is pretty simple" makes it seem that way. Because there's a shit ton of mechanics for ranged to do on Elisande and Gul'dan.

[Serpha]

The fuck did i just read. Can you please quit, just.. Get out. Leave. No guild deserves someone like you in their roster. Time to move on. Go be a pleb somewhere else.

Lol you made me laugh

[Drish]

Elisande yeah, became a meme now, Augur again a meme, both cheesable with high dps. Not "easy" for a guild progging on them, still definitely not krosus/spellblade/tich/bot level of easy, Elisande still requires you to do all mechanics.

You're a melee right? Or maybe a tank/healer? "Mechanic wise is pretty simple" makes it seem that way. Because there's a shit ton of mechanics for ranged to do on Elisande and Gul'dan.

Hi, ranged here, just wanting to shed a little light.

Gul'dan post nerf, if your dps isn't garbage you don't get the bad combos in phase 1. You don't get the bonds during hellfire at all anymore. The mechanics for Gul'dan and Elisande, while unforgiving, are just doing one thing at a time. Second phase Mannoroth and final phase Archimonde, where the cooldowns on the abilities are different and they start cycling together in bad ways seemed much harder.

Not saying they aren't hard fights, but as was said probably one of the harder aspects pre-7.2 was the dps checks to avoid the bad lineups, like 4th/5th ring on Elisande phase 1, 3rd orb set on Elisande phase 2, the bad hellfire/bonds combos on Gul'dan phase 1, the 5th eye on Gul'dan phase 2.

[Deleted]

Me and the guild I'm in killed trilliax after 11 wipes. It felt good but now the real fun happens. Reading on the forums here and other places I hear guilds break up after the 3rd boss. Should I quit now before the bosses force me to quit?

It's crazy you managed 3/10m i would be happy with that, my guild broke on 2/10n

[Deleted]

Me and the guild I'm in killed trilliax after 11 wipes. It felt good but now the real fun happens. Reading on the forums here and other places I hear guilds break up after the 3rd boss. Should I quit now before the bosses force me to quit?

Overcoming he odds and beating the boss who seems impossible at first is the core of raiding, its what makes it fun.

If you quit before seriuosly trying (e.g. before you have a few hundreds of wipes on the same boss), you did not raid at all, you were just there. The fun really only starts when bosses get hard. Everyone can down easy bosses, its boring and uninteresting.

My guild has rebuild - we did not raid in WoD, and we started to raid more seriously with NH again. We are now in our thrid mythic ID and have killed trilliax, and I am very much looking forward to get to actual bosses. Aluriel, Krosus, Tichondrius are all in reach for us if we challenge us a bit. I am unsure about other bosses since there are still some problems left in our Roster, but we will tackle those issues and I'm confident we can do a lot in Tomb.

My point is if you just quit you miss out on what raiding is really about. I have friendships forged in WoW that last for well over 10 years now. my record is 217 before the first kill, and thats not much at all in the grand scheme of things. But finally getting the boss down after so many wipes is what makes the stories people talk about for years. Its what makes guilds.



But if your mindset is "Uh, it gets difficult, I better quit" then this is all irrelevant. With that attitude you won't kill anything significant anyways. Because its a shitty attitude for raiding.

[Kazuchika]

Trash guilds break up after Trilliax, the guilds who don't deserve to call themselves mythic raiding guilds. But if you killed Trilliax in 11 wipes you can do the 100 wipe thing on krosus(if you have decent dmg and good mechanics)/tich(if you have a good cheese comp/Spellblade(if you have good healers/mechanics) and get a 4th kill

lol hundred wipes on krosus.

My group killed Tich last night after about 50 pulls and then got Krosus to 1% in 6. Fight is an absolute joke now.

[D3athsting]

Lol, What's your mythic prog?

And you clearly don't know what you're talking about, if you think traits are worth 4-5ilvls of gear.

This
I have only 2 traits left before concordance and are defensive ones, ppl ofc put first points in strongest traits and then proceed to the weaker ones, so the dps gain for every trait is lower as you advance with AP

[Emerald Archer]

Hi, ranged here, just wanting to shed a little light.

Gul'dan post nerf, if your dps isn't garbage you don't get the bad combos in phase 1. You don't get the bonds during hellfire at all anymore. The mechanics for Gul'dan and Elisande, while unforgiving, are just doing one thing at a time. Second phase Mannoroth and final phase Archimonde, where the cooldowns on the abilities are different and they start cycling together in bad ways seemed much harder.

Not saying they aren't hard fights, but as was said probably one of the harder aspects pre-7.2 was the dps checks to avoid the bad lineups, like 4th/5th ring on Elisande phase 1, 3rd orb set on Elisande phase 2, the bad hellfire/bonds combos on Gul'dan phase 1, the 5th eye on Gul'dan phase 2.

I'm on Gul'dan prog currently, I do understand how the fight works. People were already skipping the difficult part of p1 pre-nerf, by lusting on the first add. Because they didn't need the extra dmg at 10% to kill Gul'dan in time. There really is no difference there unless your group had poor damage pre-nerf, stopping you from doing that.

And most of those guilds were also already skipping the 5th eye in Gul'dan phase. This really didn't change much for most groups. Only those who had low ST dps.

Elisande, was also being put into phase 2, before the 4th rings by most guilds progressing on her, again aside from those with really really bad ST dps, we 4 healed it, and are a moreso aoe comp than ST comp, and still only had 3 rings. So again, nothing changed there. And we never got the 3rd orbs.

These things you listed, those issues no longer existed for the majority of guilds after 7.2. yeah 100% before 7.2 these were issues, but after 7.2 there wasn't a huge flood of guilds killing Gul'dan. So clearly it didn't make that much of a difference.

Killing Elisande, and Gul'dan, before 7.2 was the peak. That's the 10/10 impressive.

But post-7.2 and post-nerf, no new mechanics are really being skipped by the guilds progressing unless the ST was bad prior, but then they're just getting what most other guilds had prog wise now.

Killing Gul'dan after 7.2, is equally as impressive as killing it post-nerf. The only valid nerf for most progression guilds there, is the parasite dmg. Which is a nice nerf but not the be all and end all.

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lol hundred wipes on krosus.

My group killed Tich last night after about 50 pulls and then got Krosus to 1% in 6. Fight is an absolute joke now.

Yeah, it is a joke. But his guild only just got 3/10M, so I don't have much hope for them.

[Kazuchika]

Yeah, it is a joke. But his guild only just got 3/10M, so I don't have much hope for them.

I feel bad for whatever guild actually carries him with the kind of attitude he has towards progression.

[shyguybman]

I'm in the same spot as your guild, we recently got 4/10 (krosus last week) but a good chunk of the raid doesn't want to do mythic but just shows up so they don't screw people over. We aren't a mythic guild but just did it since it was something to do and people are tired of NH.

[Darsithis]

What the...why would you quit?

[Roiids]

lol hundred wipes on krosus.

My group killed Tich last night after about 50 pulls and then got Krosus to 1% in 6. Fight is an absolute joke now.

So confused that ppl think 50 wipes is nothing. I usually think that's a lot. But also i'm, of the camp that ramming your head into a boss 3 nights a week isnt that fun. But if its possible to do then its def fun.

Challenging = fun
Almost impossible challenging = not so fun

[RoKPaNda]

That's nice, not everyone view guilds and join guilds with/ following the same mentality.

Judging by your location and your sig I'm not really surprised that you put your guild before you, but I'd wager that most people play this game for their own enjoyment. I know I'm not paying a monthly fee in either gold or money for OTHER people, I'm playing for me. The guild I raid with is just a group of other people that banded together to accomplish a goal, nothing more nothing less. When they fail to accomplish that goal I'll move on to a new group of random people to meet that goal. I haven't been in a guild that I consider "my guild" since probably burning crusade.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Judging by your location and your sig I'm not really surprised that you put your guild before you, but I'd wager that most people play this game for their own enjoyment. I know I'm not paying a monthly fee in either gold or money for OTHER people, I'm playing for me. The guild I raid with is just a group of other people that banded together to accomplish a goal, nothing more nothing less. When they fail to accomplish that goal I'll move on to a new group of random people to meet that goal. I haven't been in a guild that I consider "my guild" since probably burning crusade.

Then you're funny at judging, I must say... Not sure what one could conclude about my values from the sig and "location"...

Plenty of people value the community within a guild. Doesn't mean one can't also be adamant that guilds need to accomplish what oneself wants to do in-game.

[Drish]

I'm on Gul'dan prog currently, I do understand how the fight works. People were already skipping the difficult part of p1 pre-nerf, by lusting on the first add. Because they didn't need the extra dmg at 10% to kill Gul'dan in time. There really is no difference there unless your group had poor damage pre-nerf, stopping you from doing that.

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I agree with most of what you said, but the groups just getting to those fights now tend to have poorer damage while progressing because they're learning how to deal with the mechanics. I can't say how many wipes both of my groups had on Elisande phase 1 when we were a percentage or two of pushing her. Is it gamebreaking? Not really. But thats most likely what the point of the nerfs are.

Pre-7.2 some of us were volunteering to sit for Elisande progression, because the first few nights were "nobody can die or miss recursion interrupts or you won't make the check because 2 of the 3 healers are dps'ing". Now theres a lot of slack. We were progressing Gul'dan when 7.2 hit for timeframe

The guilds getting to Eli/Guldan now are either weaker mechanically, weaker numberwise, or simply raid less hours. The changes will help these teams get more attempts that get past the first phase faster, since if things go wrong and someone dies you can still make the push, even if you're overhealing it.

[Kazuchika]

So confused that ppl think 50 wipes is nothing. I usually think that's a lot. But also i'm, of the camp that ramming your head into a boss 3 nights a week isnt that fun. But if its possible to do then its def fun.

Challenging = fun
Almost impossible challenging = not so fun

Well to clarify if you want to talk about quality attempts it was more like 20-30 when you factor in some of those pulls being an "oops I ate the blast instead of the soaker" or "oops I'm dumb and didn't taunt when I should have" and a wipe called within the first minute or two. Hour wise it was probably only like 5(?) hours total spread across 2 weeks?

Maybe it just didn't feel like much because a lot of us are 10+ year raiders who were used to spending a month of 5 day a week raids to kill bosses in vanilla idk. We're not super serious so we don't take it THAT seriously but still want to get as far as possible with the ~6 hours a week we have to dedicate to mythic.

[Deja Thoris]

Are you trolling OP or actually serious? If trolling then well played, if serious then lol.

[Fleckens]

I'm on Gul'dan prog currently, I do understand how the fight works. People were already skipping the difficult part of p1 pre-nerf, by lusting on the first add. Because they didn't need the extra dmg at 10% to kill Gul'dan in time. There really is no difference there unless your group had poor damage pre-nerf, stopping you from doing that.

And most of those guilds were also already skipping the 5th eye in Gul'dan phase. This really didn't change much for most groups. Only those who had low ST dps.

Elisande, was also being put into phase 2, before the 4th rings by most guilds progressing on her, again aside from those with really really bad ST dps, we 4 healed it, and are a moreso aoe comp than ST comp, and still only had 3 rings. So again, nothing changed there. And we never got the 3rd orbs.

These things you listed, those issues no longer existed for the majority of guilds after 7.2. yeah 100% before 7.2 these were issues, but after 7.2 there wasn't a huge flood of guilds killing Gul'dan. So clearly it didn't make that much of a difference.

Killing Elisande, and Gul'dan, before 7.2 was the peak. That's the 10/10 impressive.

But post-7.2 and post-nerf, no new mechanics are really being skipped by the guilds progressing unless the ST was bad prior, but then they're just getting what most other guilds had prog wise now.

Killing Gul'dan after 7.2, is equally as impressive as killing it post-nerf. The only valid nerf for most progression guilds there, is the parasite dmg. Which is a nice nerf but not the be all and end all.

While I still do think your guild is decent if you kill gul'dan after 7.2(Assuming no more nerfs I'd consider any guild killing it before tomb to be decent) there is still a big difference in the fight. As someone who started progressing on him a few weeks before 7.2 and killed it the day after just those couple extra traits and the wind nerf(as far as I know it wasn't listed anywhere but before 7.2 the winds were much stronger, as a priest for example if I wasn't at least a good way past the middle of the platform I would get knocked off, now you have so much more room due to weak winds) already helped a ton, it made our transitions go from Illidan spawning just as we killed gul'dan to having 5-6 seconds where we just stood doing nothing, and it also made us able to kill him as soon as we had a phase 3 where we got past the second bubble as where previous we had some 1-3% wipes to enrage we now just killed it with I think over 30 seconds left.

Once you got the basics of the fight down, gul'dan pretty much had 3 hard points. The first being from 2nd add spawn to hellfire+bonds overlap in phase 1, second being the 5th eye spawn and the following transition and lastly meeting the pretty tight dps check in last phase, which meant you had to execute the mechanics very well or you would not have enough dps. All these three things are no longer part of the fight, especially now after the nerf. It is still by no means a pushover fight though, but it's probably more of a 100 wipe fight than the 2-300 it was before.