Legion lore.. really isn't that great.

[Deleted]

I think it's great that there's an arc for us as players going through the expansions from Vanilla to Legion. We started out as adventurers, we became heroes and then legends. It really makes sense. And it honestly feels great.

[nothingsjim]

I wish they could implement some raid/instance where we actually lose, or forced to flee. Remember in Halls of Reflection where all we could do is running from the LK? Why isn't there an instance or raid (Not just some scenario) like that in Legion? At least it would make the supposed unstoppable threat feels actually unstoppable.

Lore wise, every major cities are under attack by the Legion but Blizz obviously can't implement it gameplay wise unless they revamp the starting zone and the quests related, we all know how well revamping old zones were received...

Personally, I would LOVE to have one or two major city being overrun by the demons and the players have to relocate to another starting zone (Say, Ironforge being overrun and every Dwarves and Gnomes now start in Gnomeregan), but well, everyone know why this isn't happening...

A phased starting zone scenario like "Retake Silvermoon", "Retake ironforge" would be the second best thing.

[Makorus]

People using Lich King killing us as making him "scary".

When it just shows how inconsequential anything like that is. You cant make threats in a MMORPG. Especially not with a fanbase like WoWs, when a huge part of people complained about invasions.

[Radaney]

Lol yeh sorry we couldn't and didn't stay random Adventurers after as early as TBC where we became Azeroths vanguard into a hostile planet.

This was amplified even more in Wrath where we can became figureheads of our respective factions in Trial and Icecrown Citadel.

No idea why people thought this was a new thing in Warlords and Legion.

Overall I feel the Lore in Legion is fine although the Legion seem very very underwhelming compared to their presentation previously i.e War of the Ancients and WC3.

[Shampro]

Lol yeh sorry we couldn't stay random Adventurers after as early as TBC where we became Azeroths vanguard into a hostile planet.

Overall I feel the Lore in Legion is fine although the Legion seem very very underwhelming compared to their presentation previously i.e War of the Ancients and WC3.

And that sorely lies on the shoulders of this being an MMORPG. Nothing will FEEL like an actual threat because we will win, and even if they persist in invading places, it doesn't matter those invasions are basicly a path to gameplay.

They are 100% a threat as they have killed skilled and long lasting champions/characters in this expansion alone. Not to mention how they've taken people we've known and turned them against us (Darkshire) (and Dreadlord manipulation).

But the fact will always ALWAYS persist in the back of our mind that we won't lose because this is an MMO. In the RTS you are literally Thrall, or Arthas or any other big character, the world can end and it could be a reasonable end to the game.

In an MMO that doesn't happen because this is a persistant world that must take into account the continuation of players, of people coming back from work and wanting to check thier mailbox, thier bank, thier guild chat.

I get it people want to pardon the lenguage, get fucked by all the enemies in the game, I get it. But that will always happen to some extent and that will stop the momment the game feels like it may damage the continuation of gameplay, because, you gussed it, people have to keep loggin in, so to do that, the baddies have to die at some point or the game will also suffer from staleness.

See when where I'm going? Gameplay will always be a big factor in this particular genre, in comparison to something like a Single player RTS or hell, Diablo.

Going to make a good and clear picture. If they made a War of the Ancients game that would be a single player, and Sargeras succeded in ending Azeroth at the end, that could very well be a (tragicly) proper ending. Now paint a War of the Ancients setting, as an MMO, there is literally NO way they would go to the extreams they did in that, let alone let the Bad guys win tenfold. It's basicly impossible.

[Coffeexbean]

everyone is freaking out about being powerful characters right now although it isnt bothering me yet... I do think Ill care more when we face void lords... the game is moving away from the old school medieval themes, well it did a while ago but its becoming too divine for my taste as well.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

This week I've looted Ring of the Scoured Clan ("This ring is crudely engraved with an unmistakably Orcish symbol, but one you've never seen before") and Breastplate of the Remembered King. Both brought to mind excellent lore/storytelling efforts by Blizz.

[Manabomb]

Well, I find it difficult to take you seriously when you seem to think that Cata and MoP were positive directions for WoW's lore, especially setting them on some kind of pedestal compared to Classic. Classic actually felt like you were playing in a genuine world, whereas everything post-Cataclysm is a journey on a railroad to max level, with no thought given to the zones actually being places in a world as opposed to areas to quest in. This was actually part of what WoD got RIGHT, for all the other lacks it had. And then we go to Legion, and we're practically back to ground zero, except for Suramar, which admittedly is an excellent city.

Quest design didn't change when they made cata and beyond, merely the presentation. Classic had it's on rails moments as well and is not immune to that sort of presentation.

Plus, a game feeling as if it is on rails has as much to do with psychology as actual game design.

- - - Updated - - -

everyone is freaking out about being powerful characters right now although it isnt bothering me yet... I do think Ill care more when we face void lords... the game is moving away from the old school medieval themes, well it did a while ago but its becoming too divine for my taste as well.

I think the whole 'too-powerful character' sentiment is the lore-nerd version of the numbers jockeys that actually give a fuck about stat squishes ruining their gameplay.

[Aleax]

I don't need to be considered a hero in-game, being an adventurer is good enough to me. But I disliked that I had to follow Thrall as Alliance in Cataclysm, when I was considered an adventurer.

But as the new Anduin cinematic is an alliance AND horde cinematic now, maybie this is the trend now anyway, like in Cata.

Also, I'd like to say that I hope this xpac is not considered Alliance, because it not really is.

[Beelzabi]

Well, we can't complain about the lore anymore. Writers aren't good enought for this, and the best they can do is to nerf all enemies we face.

Almost every player will tell you that with all the enemies we've faced, it's time for us to be the heroes, but it's not that actually. From a lore perspective, it's really impossible for us to have faced all this great enemies without dying; when you entered into, let's say Molten Core, there's a really high possibility that you died there, and if you lived, you couldn't have participated in all the other major fights. This can be seen during the greenfire quest chain of warlocks, where the members of the black harvest have participated in one fight, but not the others.

And all of this comes with that idiotic chronology Blizzard has stated, that we have faced all these World ending threats every year. This only gives two possibilities:

1: We have faced just idiot characters that can't even do a shit .

2: We are all mighty, and the armies of Azeroth are infinite, with some clone machines that gives them soldiers every morning.

In Legion, they have killed Varian, Vol'jin, Tirion, and some others just to make Legion "the greatest threat", but it happens that they were killed because they weren't prepared, they thought they would fight just Gul'dan and some others during the pre-expansion event. But thinking about it, why the hell did Varian and Vol'jin participated in a fight that wasn't supposed to be so great, if they were prepared during ICC, for example. Not even in the invasion of the Iron Horde participated. And now, we're invading Broken Shore and they are, again, idiotic enemies who can't do a shit to a "united army". You could say that we have the Elemental Lords, the Valarjar, etc., but this is supposed to be "THE GREATEST INVASION OF THE LEGION, EVEN GREATER THAN WOTA", and it's really not that great.

So, my advice, give up on the shitty lore, it doesn't worth it.

[Dagoth Ur]

And that sorely lies on the shoulders of this being an MMORPG. Nothing will FEEL like an actual threat because we will win, and even if they persist in invading places, it doesn't matter those invasions are basicly a path to gameplay.

They are 100% a threat as they have killed skilled and long lasting champions/characters in this expansion alone. Not to mention how they've taken people we've known and turned them against us (Darkshire) (and Dreadlord manipulation).

But the fact will always ALWAYS persist in the back of our mind that we won't lose because this is an MMO. In the RTS you are literally Thrall, or Arthas or any other big character, the world can end and it could be a reasonable end to the game.

In an MMO that doesn't happen because this is a persistant world that must take into account the continuation of players, of people coming back from work and wanting to check thier mailbox, thier bank, thier guild chat.

I get it people want to pardon the lenguage, get fucked by all the enemies in the game, I get it. But that will always happen to some extent and that will stop the momment the game feels like it may damage the continuation of gameplay, because, you gussed it, people have to keep loggin in, so to do that, the baddies have to die at some point or the game will also suffer from staleness.

See when where I'm going? Gameplay will always be a big factor in this particular genre, in comparison to something like a Single player RTS or hell, Diablo.

Going to make a good and clear picture. If they made a War of the Ancients game that would be a single player, and Sargeras succeded in ending Azeroth at the end, that could very well be a (tragicly) proper ending. Now paint a War of the Ancients setting, as an MMO, there is literally NO way they would go to the extreams they did in that, let alone let the Bad guys win tenfold. It's basicly impossible.

That's all true.

I think there could be done more to improve the atmosphere in Legion and it could all be done to be little more ambitious and grim instead of us just charging in and smashing every enemy.

For example I don't understand why every demon had to be voice acted like they're a freaking moron who only knows how to yell BURN, DOOM etc etc.
These are the guys that conquered all known universe and have technology that Azeroth can only dream of, they can't be that stupid.

Somebody mentioned Halls of Reflection encounter with the Lich king, that was a really cool way to set Lich king up as an actual threat and more powerful than us.

At the end of every zone we drive the Legion off from the zone. It could be done how all the story in the zone is centered around freeing enslaved faction and leading an exodus out of the zone, with Legion still staying there. (Suramar did this very vell on the second thought)

Previously feared and intelligent characters like Tichondrius are dumbed down with literally nothing interesting to say.

I think all these things could've been made better. On the account of the Broken shore loss they're repeating how Legion defeated us and aside from killing beloved characters that loss will change literally nothing no matter how much forces we lost there.

From storytelling perspective how ridiculous it is that what's first gonna be the biggest invasion of our planet is going to turn into us invading the home world of the invader infinite times bigger than us. (I know people want to see Argus, I do to, but the only way it will feel right is if we're hiding there).

Legion defeated should be a huge Phyric victory with an impact that's gonna change the state and politics of Azeroth forever. Can you honestly say this feels like the biggest invasion ever and as hopeless as they said it would be? I know in the end we're going to win because it's MMO, but it could've been done all a little more ambitious and not so obvious.

[Trassk]

I literally stopped reading there because this is subjectively wrong.

and yet you carried on anyway, quoting other things I said.

[Deleted]

After reading the title I've thought you meant Burning Legion in general - I mean... they pop up, they die, they pop up again and die again and so on and so on.

At the start of Legion I've thought we shouldn't be able to deal with BL for good just yet but now I really want it.

[Swalload]

and yet you carried on anyway, quoting other things I said.

The rest of my post said I ended up reading your entire post, you obviously have not read my post, you're doing worse than what you are accusing me of.

[Sam the Wiser]

WoW, is just terribly written fan fic these days. The pop culture and meme lore is better than the crap we get now.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's pretty much just how an MMO cant stand up to a strategy game interms of lore and story, Warcraft 3 took 10 years to make, wow's patches doesnt have even near the same time-budget or effort put into it, because they cant afford to give it that much time, it never made sense, and it realy wasnt any different with Arthas, Deathwing or other pre-established npc-villains.

Warcraft 3 took around 5 at most and the Budget and effort put into WoW patches is far beyond Warcraft 3.

[Cyram]

I think the lore in Legion doesn't feel impactful enough.
I mean, yeah, Vol'jin and Varian died... but they regrouped pretty damn quickly and that didn't affect the factions as a whole (other than the ridiculous vendetta of the doggy guy from behind the wall). Our forces keep gaining momentum at a hasty pace, and the Legion is doing nothing but losing left and right.
They better shake things up with a huge tragedy before the expansion ends... I mean, it was supposed to be the biggest invasion yet, and their first attempt destroyed the world as they knew it... Now all they do is turn the sky green and throw some shit infernals and a couple dreadlords.

[Aucald]

I think the lore in Legion doesn't feel impactful enough.
I mean, yeah, Vol'jin and Varian died... but they regrouped pretty damn quickly and that didn't affect the factions as a whole (other than the ridiculous vendetta of the doggy guy from behind the wall). Our forces keep gaining momentum at a hasty pace, and the Legion is doing nothing but losing left and right.
They better shake things up with a huge tragedy before the expansion ends... I mean, it was supposed to be the biggest invasion yet, and their first attempt destroyed the world as they knew it... Now all they do is turn the sky green and throw some shit infernals and a couple dreadlords.

Who regrouped quickly? The major factions, the Horde and Alliance, haven't really done much in the way of forward movement against the Legion - the Legionfall campaign is a culmination of the Class Orders in conjunction with the Kirin Tor, with minimal to no support from the Horde or Alliance. The only real showing by the primary factions has been in the Stormheim zone's quest chains, but that was more Sylvanas and Genn's mutual vendettas than any kind of offense against the Legion's forces. I would say that the death of Varian and Vol'jin has more or less paralyzed the major factions, and it's only now that the Alliance (in the form of Anduin) is beginning to rouse itself from the torpor that's persisted since the first disastrous engagement at the Broken Shore.

[Cyram]

@Aucald The Order Halls feature people from both factions, which is then a combined effort from both the Horde and the Alliance, just under groups.
There's been no movement from major lore characters and faction leaders, that's true (besides the sort of neutral storylines from most Alliance leaders), bust the whole threat from the Legion seems completely minor, compared to what the Legion did to the world in previous invasions.
Yeah they killed a relevant human and trol... that's it?
Don't get me wrong, I like parts from the lore (especially Suramar and Val'sharah)... but the whole "BIGGEST INVASION YET!" premise becomes lacklustre when the feeling of urgency is overshadowed by the local lore of the new zones (Xavius totes steals the thunder, as well as Odyn / Helya).
Take Cataclysm, for example: the whole thing was about having this huge axe over our entire world, ready to be dropped at any minute. You felt it everywhere you went. The Cataclysm affected practically every single being on Azeroth. Here the demons are sort of doing something but doesn't feel as huge to me.
The invasions sort of changed that, as well as the whole Broken Shore zone (a place infested by demons and actually having a "small" foothold on the battlefront is kinda neat, tbh).

[Deleted]

thinking back through wows expansions, you could argue across what made the story and gameplay the pull of each chapter. Vanilla wasn't so good on lore, it was pretty static in what happened, aside from reading a lot of text about things, not much really happened with characters, main characters just sitting around not doing much and telling you to go out and do this quest.

Vanilla was the best regarding lore. Every NPC was telling a story, every zone, every land, every city. All of it felt alive and breathing.

Nowadays everything is static, with just a handful of important NPCs doing everything. (this expansion it's Khadgar, Illidan, Velen)