PvP Demo Nerf

[evertonbelmontt]

What baffles me is that if we start being reasonable and think that all nerfs are justified SOMEHOW (every warlock spec got nerfed since the start of the xp) then I can only think there's a god out there playing warlock that does the impossible.

Either that or I'm incredibly bad at pvp, what I'm sure I ain't, even while doing my casual stuff everyday.
I hardly ever see a nerf to melees and they seem unstopable in arenas/skirmish.

My point is, where are these god warlocks? Maldiva vods are locked to subscribers only, the warlock discord only has a couple of vids of 7.1 patch. I need to see to believe it is not personal vendetta :P

[Deleted]

If they are dampening games how in the flying fuck does demo even have this really good damage you're talking about.

Warlocks have no burst worth a damn, and the one spec who can play outside dampening is made of glass.

I'm sorry but yesterday my thal'kiels hit 3.6 million, and fel lord is some of the strongest burst in the game.

Not everybody plays demo locks for dampening. Don't use Maldiva as a "how to play the game" guide lol

The reason they are dampening is not because of the specs or classes they play, it's a playstyle. A playstyle that demo lock was perfect for pre nerf. Now, it's not as good and people will complain for a few weeks, but then we'll see once again that it still works just fine.

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What baffles me is that if we start being reasonable and think that all nerfs are justified SOMEHOW (every warlock spec got nerfed since the start of the xp) then I can only think there's a god out there playing warlock that does the impossible.

Either that or I'm incredibly bad at pvp, what I'm sure I ain't, even while doing my casual stuff everyday.
I hardly ever see a nerf to melees and they seem unstopable in arenas/skirmish.

My point is, where are these god warlocks? Maldiva vods are locked to subscribers only, the warlock discord only has a couple of vids of 7.1 patch. I need to see to believe it is not personal vendetta :P

if you check the last many wow tournaments (twitch.tv/warcraft or twitch.tv/gcdtv - there's been one every weekend for 4 consecutive weeks now), you'll see that the most represented class is resto druid, and warlock is a close second

[Lucrece]

Thal'kiel is not remotely burst. You require setting up 8-10 sets of imps+dreadstalkers+ demonic empowerment for 10 soul shards spent (4 for each set of imp, 2 for the dreadstalker)+ another for doomguard to hit a 3.6k Thal'kiel. That's a time window in which all it takes is a single CC/interrupt to despawn a set of demons and significantly reduce the damage of your TKC.

I consider burst to be damage with really short or no reaction windows. In wotlk a single chaosbolt or lava burst cast was burst. It was a relatively short cast that trucked the opponent with little setup to make it happen.

First Blood blade dance on demonhunter is another example of a quick high impact spell. It's hard to disrupt/interrupt and hits like a truck.

[evertonbelmontt]

I watched some of those, and for instance the finals splyce vs method: when method went demon it didn't worked out for them, when splyce went demon they outplayed method because method tried to finish the healer as an "all in" kind of move.

And that is talking about the very high end of the spectrum, those are the top players of the world.

What I'm talking about is that some of the past expac nerfs you could see their point: there was random players (not saying they're bad) killing 1x2 or 1x3 arena as demonology in MoP with 2x Chaos Wave meta DarkSoul combo.

I don't think dampening as a strategy is bad for tournaments, either to watch or to be fair to your opponents.

[Deleted]

Thal'kiel is not remotely burst. You require setting up 8-10 sets of imps+dreadstalkers+ demonic empowerment for 10 soul shards spent (4 for each set of imp, 2 for the dreadstalker)+ another for doomguard to hit a 3.6k Thal'kiel. That's a time window in which all it takes is a single CC/interrupt to despawn a set of demons and significantly reduce the damage of your TKC.

I consider burst to be damage with really short or no reaction windows. In wotlk a single chaosbolt or lava burst cast was burst. It was a relatively short cast that trucked the opponent with little setup to make it happen.

First Blood blade dance on demonhunter is another example of a quick high impact spell. It's hard to disrupt/interrupt and hits like a truck.

oh ok yeah so something that requires setup isn't burst? what about glacial spike? and for a really huge thal kiels you just need 4 soul shards and empowerment (infernal, extra fel guard, felstalkers and empowerment)

First blood doesn't even exist in pvp anymore, it only did for like 2 weeks. now everybody is back to playing the dot.

I don't think locks are OP after the nerf anymore. But we sure were before it happened.

Remember when every1 said druids was gonna be shit after they nerfed healing touch spec? XD

[Deleted]

oh ok yeah so something that requires setup isn't burst? what about glacial spike? and for a really huge thal kiels you just need 4 soul shards and empowerment (infernal, extra fel guard, felstalkers and empowerment)

First blood doesn't even exist in pvp anymore, it only did for like 2 weeks. now everybody is back to playing the dot.

I don't think locks are OP after the nerf anymore. But we sure were before it happened.

Remember when every1 said druids was gonna be shit after they nerfed healing touch spec? XD

According to arenamate.net warlocks were actually a "middle of the pack class" with demo being the highest representative, you're gonna see that dropping to the bottom now.

Also nice 3.6 million ... in fairly land hmmm

[G3istly]

What baffles me is that if we start being reasonable and think that all nerfs are justified SOMEHOW (every warlock spec got nerfed since the start of the xp) then I can only think there's a god out there playing warlock that does the impossible.

Either that or I'm incredibly bad at pvp, what I'm sure I ain't, even while doing my casual stuff everyday.
I hardly ever see a nerf to melees and they seem unstopable in arenas/skirmish.

My point is, where are these god warlocks? Maldiva vods are locked to subscribers only, the warlock discord only has a couple of vids of 7.1 patch. I need to see to believe it is not personal vendetta :P

It's definitely a personal vendetta. Think of it this way, how long would World of Warcraft lasted if they treated the more popular classes the same way they do Warlocks?

[Deleted]

I don't think Maldiva and his team is the most credible source for this kind of thing. remember they don't play to kill, they play to survive and dampen. old demo was perfect for that, now demo still has amazing cc and utility and really good damage, but it's not as much a dampening class

edit: do you really like watching Maldivas dampening games in the tournaments?

Not particularly - it was just the first example that came to mind since I'd watched them talking about this earlier today - the survivability wasn't there, nor was the damage.

Not sure why you think demo is good damage either - even if it's at times effective, I personally find it incredibly frustrating when a lot of it seems to hinge on TKC (and it's reliance on getting enough of a setup time to get your pets spawned and empowered), doom crits and a fel lord which it feels is becoming weaker and weaker as people get used to seeing it and know how to play around it - it's not the opening weeks where no one knew what the demo revamp entailed and just sat around getting cleaved to death.

Feels like it falls into a similar camp as destruction, but arguably worse - at least embers don't decay if you're locked down after you generate them.

I just can't see the justification for a warlock nerf considering what melee do and what warlocks don't have, especially to one of the least liked specs by most people in terms of playstyle - I think the only thing propping it up was the fact that it actually delivered on one of the core promises - tanky yet immobile.

[Sunlighthell]

It's funny to see how they're promoting no brain comps like turbo and beasts because certain comps can dampen them. If those mongo retards can't kill something while popping all of their cd it's only their fault, Demo has nothing to do with it. According to arenamate it wasn't even in top 5 specs (dps). Wonder when they will nerf shadow and affliction. Because they're clearly next. Affliction for certain. They nerfed and stealth nerfed it almost every week in past season, rendering it almost unplayable at some point.

Arena participation is at lowest point. But I think with holinka's lead we will see even less participation, because of changes like this one.

[Drakile]

Now Blizzard can dodge Warlock questions completely using the logic they spouted during that last Q/A. If we did post information about specific classes that means 11-35 people aren't getting value from the info, but let's to continue to watch most other classes get fully explained breakdowns and game plans to what changes may happen, maybe being left in the dark and randomly fluctuating in power has become the Warlock class fantasy as dictated by Blizz.

[Percadu]

Last season I was 2350 in 2s and 2200 in 3s. I was 2200mmr before the hotfix too. Since the hotfix I'm getting trained literally 100% of the time in both brackets and dying very quickly. Tanked down to 1700mmr in 2s losing to total speds that just do a pve rotation on me, they suck at kicks have no idea how to cc. If they get low they just run because I can't chase, ever. They get back to full and at like 35%+ dampening I just flop due to out healable damage. At least when we were losing before it's usually because they played well and just got the edge. But losing because my immobile class that does some ok damage (compared to other classes) is squishy as hell is just seriously depressing.

[Trematode]

This was a good change, Demo locks were a bit too hard to kill. I just hope they buff Destro surv a bit more thou.

But like what the other poster said, 4/5 teams that won the tournaments were warlock teams. Except for last weekend were they played TSG in the final but they got there by playing Shadowcleave (UHdk/Lock) previous matches.

[Deleted]

This was a good change, Demo locks were a bit too hard to kill. I just hope they buff Destro surv a bit more thou.

But like what the other poster said, 4/5 teams that won the tournaments were warlock teams. Except for last weekend were they played TSG in the final but they got there by playing Shadowcleave (UHdk/Lock) previous matches.

They had to remove their star player (Wallirikz) to be able to win versus the team which they previously lost to.

Besides demo has now fallen out of the top 15 specs for all classes, warlocks now dont have a single spec in the top 15. And the amount of warlocks fall for every day.

And you cannot pin point this at demo warlocks swapping specs since both destro and affliction are also dropping.

http://www.arenamate.net/representation-graphs

[G3istly]

I will never understand idiots who think having any part of their class nerfed is a "good thing".

[Trematode]

They had to remove their star player (Wallirikz) to be able to win versus the team which they previously lost to.

Besides demo has now fallen out of the top 15 specs for all classes, warlocks now dont have a single spec in the top 15. And the amount of warlocks fall for every day.

And you cannot pin point this at demo warlocks swapping specs since both destro and affliction are also dropping.

http://www.arenamate.net/representation-graphs

True but them running TSG in the final won it for them but Wallirikz played almost the entire tournament besides the final. Not saying that's bad but Shadowcleave pretty much got em there.

But I see some Destro and Affli buffs in the main page. Think Blizz is buffing damage instead of surv to get away from the dampening problems they had in the tournaments.

[dwightyo39]

Also nice 3.6 million ... in fairly land hmmm

Yeah, I just don't see that happening with only "4 shards" either. Maybe in world pvp with the succubus + shadow damage and/or legendary helm.

[evertonbelmontt]

Watching the tournament on MMO front page right now, I haven't seen a single warlock spec the whole time. Was there any games where a warlock showed up?

[Deleted]

Watching the tournament on MMO front page right now, I haven't seen a single warlock spec the whole time. Was there any games where a warlock showed up?

On NA Snutz played some games but they lost nearly all with him including the final game where he got solo'd by an arcane mage.

[Deleted]

Watching the tournament on MMO front page right now, I haven't seen a single warlock spec the whole time. Was there any games where a warlock showed up?

Working as intended. When Warlocks aren't garbage they'll be nerfed as many times as needed, until they are.