Women fighting to wear a hijab?

[Ghostpanther]

How is introctrinating children freedom? They are told from a young age that they should wear it for all sorts of dumb reasons.

That is freedom to all of you? Remember how many gay people have such traumatic issues because of their introctrinatination as a child on how being gay is so bad? That is freedom?

Because parents have a responsibility to teach and raise their kids according to what they feel is right. Later, when the kid is a adult, they are free to choose their own path. You see this happening often in the Amish communities.

[Deleted]

Because parents have a responsibility to teach and raise their kids according to what they feel is right. Later, when the kid is a adult, they are free to choose their own path. You see this happening often in the Amish communities.

There is no such thing as freedom or free will. Each invididual is formed by their genetics and outside forces. You understand how many issues Amish can have that leave those communities right?

No western state allows child abuse. Telling children they have to cover their head in order to be a good muslim and wife is child abuse.

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Any of those can be true, and its not oppressive if its a choise. Not everyone who wear a hijab is forced to.

People committing suicide for their cult leader are also not forced to do it.

[Fojos]

Because some women don't consider it to be oppressive, some of them actually wants to wear it for religious reasons.

You seriously don't realise the absurdity in your statement?

In some surveys 80% of girls with muslim background feel they are being largely controlled by their parents. Some mothers even go as far as threatening to kill the daughter if she is seen in public without veil.

[Deleted]

Telling them they can't, is not much different than telling them they must. Freedom goes both ways.

Every country on this god damn earth is telling people what they can and can't wear.

The difference is the reasoning.

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You seriously don't realise the absurdity in your statement?

Does the Quaran even demand women to wear it?

[Fencers]

Someone please school me on this fight please.

Belief in the supernatural and/or defining one's self by culture leads to practices that are often irrational, contradictory or detrimental to humans. We literally have thousands of years of history that cover this aspect of human behavior. Even Plato addressed these tendencies of the human experience.

We are complex social animals with a need to identify, communicate and define one another in the context of our personal experience. As I said, we have history to support this- living history, as in right now.

[Arbiter]

No western state allows child abuse. Telling children they have to cover their head in order to be a good muslim and wife is child abuse.

lol no it's not. It's no different than Christian parents forcing their kids to go to Church every Sunday to be "good Christians". It's not child abuse for Christian parents to force their religion on their children and it's not abuse for Muslim parents to force their kids to wear a hijab out in public. Regardless of whether you and I agree with those religions or not.

[Fojos]

Every country on this god damn earth is telling people what they can and can't wear.

The difference is the reasoning.

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Does the Quaran even demand women to wear it?

Yes, it does. For some reason even leftist apologists try to deny it. Well, I shouldn't say even. The radical left will do anything to eradicate the white man, even if it means going to be bed with an even worse enemy.

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known."

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled"


Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

Abu Dawud (32:4092) - The Apostle of Allah... said: "O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands" This was narrated by Aisha.

[Deleted]

lol no it's not. It's no different than Christian parents forcing their kids to go to Church every Sunday to be "good Christians". It's not child abuse for Christian parents to force their religion on their children and it's not abuse for Muslim parents to force their kids to wear a hijab out in public. Regardless of whether you and I agree with those religions or not.

I would say that forcing children to go to church and submit themselves to indoctrination into some backwards superstition is very much child abuse.

[Ghostpanther]

There is no such thing as freedom or free will. Each invididual is formed by their genetics and outside forces. You understand how many issues Amish can have that leave those communities right?

No western state allows child abuse. Telling children they have to cover their head in order to be a good muslim and wife is child abuse.

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I disagree. And to suggest Amish are guilty of child abuse is ludicrous at best. I am well familiar with the Amish since there are several around here where I live. When they reach adulthood, they are allowed to choose to continue to be Amish or join the outside world. Many try the outside world and some adapt and leave the Order. Most however go back.

You say no western state allows child abuse, yet the Amish are protected by our Constitution to practice their religion freely. So once again, you're comparison does not fit.

[Arbiter]

I would say that forcing children to go to church and submit themselves to indoctrination into some backwards superstition is very much child abuse.

I can agree that people shouldn't force religion on their children, but it's still far from child abuse.

[Deleted]

No, you make it a symbol of ''insert random misguided opinion''

So you're saying that the basis for wearing this piece of clothing is a set of ideas that's somehow conducive to human well-being, tolerance and an overall productive society? Right...

You're arguing that they are oppressed but you don't have any shred of proof that they are oppressed

I never said anything about about these particular women being oppressed. I said it was a symbol of an oppressive set of ideas, which you're absolutely free to dispute.

[Deleted]

Not everyone who wear a hijab is forced to.

Yeah that's kind of the point, they are. Whether or not they're smart enough to realise they're being forced to (i.e. through religious upbringing or social pressure) really has no relevance to whether theyre being forced or not.

It's the same with burka's but those are more obviously restrictive and unpleasant and are thusly more easier forbidden. Hijabs are a 'lesser evil' in this regard but still evil nevetherless.

The question is not whether or not they dont fit with western culture or freedom values overall, but rather how patient we are willing to be for muslims to progress on their own.


I am not very patient myself.

[Deleted]

I disagree. And to suggest Amish are guilty of child abuse is ludicrous at best. I am well familiar with the Amish since there are several around here where I live. When they reach adulthood, they are allowed to choose to continue to be Amish or join the outside world. Many try the outside world and some adapt and leave the Order. Most however go back.

You say no western state allows child abuse, yet the Amish are protected by our Constitution to practice their religion freely. So once again, you're comparison does not fit.

Oh wow they are ALLOWED to leave? That is generous!

But here:

Most however go back.

Why do you think that is? It couldn't possibly be because they were raised in a world so different, so insane and so god fearing that they cannot handle reality. And you think that is a good example?

[Ghostpanther]

Belief in the supernatural and/or defining one's self by culture leads to practices that are often irrational, contradictory or detrimental to humans. We literally have thousands of years of history that cover this aspect of human behavior. Even Plato addressed these tendencies of the human experience.

We are complex social animals with a need to identify, communicate and define one another in the context of our personal experience. As I said, we have history to support this- living history, as in right now.

But in spite of those, we do have the Constitutional right to freedom of religion. It is pretty much the same as having freedom of thought. A very much valuable protection.

[Varitok]

lol no it's not. It's no different than Christian parents forcing their kids to go to Church every Sunday to be "good Christians". It's not child abuse for Christian parents to force their religion on their children and it's not abuse for Muslim parents to force their kids to wear a hijab out in public. Regardless of whether you and I agree with those religions or not.

Don't try to strawman, he said nothing about Christianity and he could feel that forcing your religion on your children is abuse either way.

[Aggrophobic]

While most get beat up or worse if they don't. The needs of many outweight the feels of the few privileged cunts in the west.

Most? You got any actual numbers to back that up?

[Deleted]

Because some women don't consider it to be oppressive, some of them actually wants to wear it for religious reasons.

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womeninth...-social-media/

Not oppressive at all!

[Ghostpanther]

Oh wow they are ALLOWED to leave? That is generous!

But here:

Most however go back.

Why do you think that is? It couldn't possibly be because they were raised in a world so different, so insane and so god fearing that they cannot handle reality. And you think that is a good example?

I do think it is a good example. Children even in non religious families are not allowed to do a lot of things adults can do. :P

[Arbiter]

Don't try to strawman, he said nothing about Christianity and he could feel that forcing your religion on your children is abuse either way.

I'm not. He considers it abuse just because he doesn't agree with the religion. Parents force their children to go Church on Sunday every day and practice certain religious practices such as praying and getting baptized yet no one bats an eye at it being abusive. It's a perfect example to why you can't call it abusive for parents to push wearing a piece of children out in public onto their children. Parents of all religions (and non religions) force their kids to wear certain clothes out in public all the time.

I don't agree with religion being forced on children, but it's still not abuse.

[Ghostpanther]

Don't try to strawman, he said nothing about Christianity and he could feel that forcing your religion on your children is abuse either way.

But the law disagrees. Unless a practice, such as not using proper medical care to treat a illness, otherwise, parents have the legal and Constitutional right to teach their kids what their religious convictions are. He can feel all he wants. Not going to change what will happen however.