Thread: Rip m+

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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I like how people STILL think you're going to get more loot. It's 3 PIECES (if you complete it in time) for the ENTIRE GROUP. It was 6 PIECES before.

    The chance that you get nothing but AP and gold is even worse in the next patch.
    Dont everyone get 2 "items" per person. But those "items" can be Ap gear and some random shit?
    Or am i out riding?

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Dont everyone get 2 "items" per person. But those "items" can be Ap gear and some random shit?
    Or am i out riding?
    Everyone gets AP, and probably gold (although not sure about the gold, considering it was a "bonus" from the additional chests).

    But no. The group gets 2 items, just like the group gets 2-4-6 items currently depending on whether or not you 2 or 3 chest. If you complete the key in time you get 3 items.. but again, it's 3 items for the group.

    I expect that the same person probably can't get multiple items anymore though. Previously in the old system if you 3 chested, somebody could get I believe a maximum of 3 (I've never seen somebody loot more than 1 item from an individual chest, unless it was a legendary).

    What this means for people is that if you ONLY 1 chested it's a 50% increase to loot. If you 2 chested you're losing 25% loot, and if you 3 chested you're losing 50% loot. Still, you aren't assured loot in this patch, just like you weren't assured loot in the previous patch. If you don't complete it in time, there is a 60% chance you don't get loot (same as before), if you complete it in time however there is only a 40% chance you won't get loot.

    TLDR; The loot at the end of the dungeon is group loot. The whole giant explanation the devs gave about M+ essentially boils down to "less loot for all". Potential went from 6 down to 2 (3).

  3. #283
    IMHO it all started just from Blizz "items gain" statistic.

    Only complains i've read here is that now it's less loot => that may titanforge to ilvl 905+ (Mythic Raid tier).

    Now how i see it if i were Blizz side. They have statistic how much and what ilvl is get by players and they seen that there are to many 905+ items comming. So they detailed where it come from (intended ways was Myth Raid, Weekly M+ Chest, lucky TFs) and looks like they seen that there are to many high items comming from lucky TF, so they decreased TF chances (don't remember witch patch it was or just blue post that they thinking about it). But reducing TFs chance reduces lucky loot from Heroic Raids and other limited (rare activities). Another statistic they may have smth like "80-90%" (890+ items) comming from M+ dungeons, that is not intended to be "main/only loot" source. It have to be just one of them. And it's become obvious that M+ loot counts must be reduced (at the same time they try to make high M+ more desirable). I think that with overall loot flow reduced they may try to return previous TFs proc chances.

    IMHO how Blizz see ilvl loot system with Heroic Raid, M+ dungeons, Myth Raids.
    Top M+ dungeons, give Heroic Raid qulity loot ilvl, and +1 garanteed Myth Raid loot ilvl (from weekly chest) per person. You must not be able to get faster 905+ ilvl character from M+ dungeon spamming than from making Myth Raiding, best we can imagine it to be near same speed...
    Last edited by TorikSAn; 2017-05-04 at 01:19 PM.

  4. #284
    Nerfing loot by 50% is ridiculous. People on here may not run m+ for loot but most people do. It's by far the best way to get loot after the weekly raid clear. Blizz knows this change will result in fewer runs, but we know they don't think people will end up spending less time in game, because everything they do is meant to maximize play time. The question is, what does Blizz think people will do instead? Can they possibly think people will just keep farming at 50% reduced reward?

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    Nerfing loot by 50% is ridiculous. People on here may not run m+ for loot but most people do. It's by far the best way to get loot after the weekly raid clear. Blizz knows this change will result in fewer runs, but we know they don't think people will end up spending less time in game, because everything they do is meant to maximize play time. The question is, what does Blizz think people will do instead? Can they possibly think people will just keep farming at 50% reduced reward?
    Why would they spend less time in there when it's still going to be the best way to get loot? Of course people will keep farming at 50% reduced loot(its not really 50% reduced, since not all groups get 3 chests). Sure it's a nerf to loot for 3 chest groups, but the increased baseline ilvl + wf/tf was already stupid af.

  6. #286
    They are basically taking a system that works and people enjoy (after 9 months) deleting it and starting over ... just like MM hunters... why blizz WHHHYYYY?

    I think the real answer is, people are gearing to quickly (with out a lock out on m+) and making raid gear essentially a sidegrade.

    People arent doing 5 mans because they are fun, they do them for gear. And even at the current state upgrades are few and far between. So now you want us to run longer dungeons (equal to 1 chest time) and get less loots ? yea that makes sense ....

  7. #287
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    The old m+ reward system combined with the new key upgrade/downgrade system would flood the servers with gear. They decided to throw the bomb and see what they can safe afterwards.

  8. #288
    I think with this new system Blizzard just needs to increase the WF/TF chance with higher keys (once you surpass the gear cap).

    For example, lets say its a 30% chance for a warforge and 5% for titanforge and gear caps at 920 for a 15 once ToS is out.

    Mythic 15 = 920 loot, 30% WF, 5% TF

    Mythic 16 = 920 loot, 32% WF, 6% TF

    Mythic 20 = 920 loot, 40% WF, 10% TF

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by drbatman View Post
    They are basically taking a system that works and people enjoy (after 9 months) deleting it and starting over ... just like MM hunters... why blizz WHHHYYYY?

    I think the real answer is, people are gearing to quickly (with out a lock out on m+) and making raid gear essentially a sidegrade.

    People arent doing 5 mans because they are fun, they do them for gear. And even at the current state upgrades are few and far between. So now you want us to run longer dungeons (equal to 1 chest time) and get less loots ? yea that makes sense ....
    I mean it does make sense if you look at it like that, people should do m+ because they want to, not because they feel they have to so they can keep up with gear.

    We all know m+ has been too rewarding this expansion both in terms of ap and gear, I don't think Blizz ever intended it to compete with raids in terms of gearing but with the titanforged system (which I think is the real problem) repeatable content is gonna have a huge advantage over more traditional lockout systems. I think m+ giving gear equivelent with heroic raids is fine but with titanforging its not possible to balance properly. And they cant get rid of titanforging now that its so late in the expansion so something else must be changed.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kluian05 View Post
    I think with this new system Blizzard just needs to increase the WF/TF chance with higher keys (once you surpass the gear cap).

    For example, lets say its a 30% chance for a warforge and 5% for titanforge and gear caps at 920 for a 15 once ToS is out.

    Mythic 15 = 920 loot, 30% WF, 5% TF

    Mythic 16 = 920 loot, 32% WF, 6% TF

    Mythic 20 = 920 loot, 40% WF, 10% TF
    Fully agree with the increased WF/TF chances. Just two things:

    - TF is not a separate chance. It's just multiple rolls of the WF chance. IF (and I don't think it is) WF chance is 30%, then TF chance is to roll that 3x in a row, so 30% x 30% x 30% = 2.7%.

    - 2% increase is too much. 1% per level above max base loot should be fine.
    Mythic 20 then would have 5% higher chance to WF and a 1.6% higher chance to TF. Given that you can technically farm/spam them, that should be enough.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    lol no.

    Titanforging is one of the best things they did with this expansion. It adds incentive to run additional content for a rare chance at an upgrade vs saying fuck that content because there is zero chance of there being an upgrade. The idea that Preach and Asmongold fans have about 860 gear TFing up to 900+ on a regular basis is ludicrous. Very rarely happens. Without TF this expansion would be hot garbage with the majority if it's content already abandoned.
    Wrong. Titanforging is awful. They said they were going to get rid of it with Warforging but went ahead and did it anyway. How is getting a very low random chance of having a piece of loot being some crazy high ilvl a good thing? People dont like doing things for a small chance.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    No but who the fuck does higher keys for loot? Lol
    That's why they made the change. The "farm 1 million low-level" M+ dungeons was stupid has hell. I'm glad to see it die.

    Removing the depleted keystones is a good move too, it'll limit the damage trolls can inflict on groups.
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes
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  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Kluian05 View Post
    I think with this new system Blizzard just needs to increase the WF/TF chance with higher keys (once you surpass the gear cap).

    For example, lets say its a 30% chance for a warforge and 5% for titanforge and gear caps at 920 for a 15 once ToS is out.

    Mythic 15 = 920 loot, 30% WF, 5% TF

    Mythic 16 = 920 loot, 32% WF, 6% TF

    Mythic 20 = 920 loot, 40% WF, 10% TF
    Haha. Yea and see the casuals blow up their forums.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    With the new changes, Blizz has made the M+ system more difficult for lower and higher geared players, while cutting the rewards in half at the same time.

    Was fun while it lasted. Now I'll do my 4 emissaries and then have nothing to do until weekend raid.

    RIP the M+ system
    Overly catastrophic claim

    It actually is an improvement over current 1chest runs (in particular high levels), which is good.

    Yes, it reduces the rewards from the lower key levels farm, but i'm glad about that. I can now happily keep running high keys (~15+ atm) without worrying about 'not being effectice loot farm', whilst getting shit loads of AP each run (10M per run with mage tower at current ak).

    So yea, "rip"... lol.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    Fully agree with the increased WF/TF chances. Just two things:

    - TF is not a separate chance. It's just multiple rolls of the WF chance. IF (and I don't think it is) WF chance is 30%, then TF chance is to roll that 3x in a row, so 30% x 30% x 30% = 2.7%.

    - 2% increase is too much. 1% per level above max base loot should be fine.
    Mythic 20 then would have 5% higher chance to WF and a 1.6% higher chance to TF. Given that you can technically farm/spam them, that should be enough.
    Yes my post wasn't trying to give accurate numbers, just an idea of what they could do. The idea is higher keys past the loot cap should increase the WF/TF roll (even if only slightly).

    There NEEDS to be an incentive to keep pushing higher keys if Blizzard wants to fix Mythic+ this way. AP is useless to farm if you actually look at the scaling issues once we reach AK 50. (it will take years of effort to go from point 74-75 for example).

    P.S. The 30% WF value came from some guy back in the start of legion recorded all his loot received for months and from his data set showed the WF chance roll was ~30%.
    Last edited by Kluian05; 2017-05-04 at 03:37 PM.

  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrofluoric View Post
    I felt as if the purpose of Mythic+'s were supposed to be challenging and stressful though?
    They are a pseudo-answer to challenge dungeons and I'm not sure how I feel about Blizzard making yet another difficult piece of content more casual friendly through the means of de-incentivizing the better players (meaning them no longer proving more loot the faster you go).

    I understand the issue they're trying to tackle but I don't believe removing the fast pace of mythic+'s will solve it.
    I can see your point. And i like getting a 3-chest +10 or higher as well. But the most fun i've had in m+ where the high ones on difficult affixes. The thing is, most people don't want to do those because the loot doesn't scale up that high and you'll never get 3 chests. So instead you're locked to running +10 on speed which isn't hard AT ALL.

    so in this case, speed isn't actually that difficult.
    I prefer a slower +15 with more difficult trash pulls and longer boss fights that give the same loot

    For me difficulty isn't about speed when ilvl makes such a big difference.
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  17. #297
    I think its going to reduce the amount of mythic+ people run. After 7.2 its already the inferior way to grind AP, and with the reduction in loot, only high keys will really get used. Lower keys just won't be worth the time investment when there are other more lucrative ways to get gear.

  18. #298
    The change to not deplet the key is really good, but to cut loot in half is a terrible idea, if blizzard wants to incentive ppl to do higher lvls just implement a thing like at lvl 10 you receive 3 itens in the end of the run completed in time and in subsequent levels you have a 20% chance per level to receive a extra item in the cache, for example:

    lvl 11 completed: 3 itens, 20% chance to get an extra;
    lvl 12 completed: 3 itens, 40% chance to get an extra;
    lvl 13 completed: 3 itens, 60% chance to get an extra;
    lvl 14 completed: 3 itens, 80% chance to get an extra;
    lvl 15 completed: 4 itens at chest,
    lvl 16 completed: 4 itens + 20% chance to get an 5th,
    and go on....

  19. #299
    The loot is only cut in half if you 3-chest a dungeon. And if you can 3-chest a dungeon, you can do a higher mythic instead and get higher quality loot.

    What's being totally ignored is the 50% increase to loot for players who are pushing to the highest levels they can go. For any dungeon that you 1-chest, 3 pieces of loot will drop instead of 2. And you're way more likely to see an upgrade if 3 890s drop than with 6 870s.

    Another great side effect that no one has mentioned is how the removal of depletion will affect loot. Let's say you have a group that can clear a level 9 just in time, but can't quite make the timer on a 10. In the old system, you got loot from the 9 and then your key was basically done. In the new system, you can continually run the key, alternating between a 9 and 10 dungeon, and alternating between gaining 2 and 3 pieces of quality loot.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Wrong. Titanforging is awful. They said they were going to get rid of it with Warforging but went ahead and did it anyway. How is getting a very low random chance of having a piece of loot being some crazy high ilvl a good thing? People dont like doing things for a small chance.
    Titanforging is the ONLY reason that content other than Mythic NH has remained relavent. It's honestly a brilliant piece of game design.

    Or do you think the better option would be to have 99% of the content be dead to you once you reach about 880 ilvl? Would that really be an upgrade over the TF system?

    Without TF why would you EVER run M+ now that AP had been trivialized? The hope for specific pieces of dungeon loot TF'ing is a big draw right now and makes dungeons lucrative. We wouldn't even be talking about dungeons in past xpacs after 9 months of it being live. The damn near perfect M+ system and TF is what's to thank for easy to access content that we've all enjoyed since Legion launched.

    I can't believe you mooks are so willing to accept Blizzards bullshit reasoning for gutting the M+ system.

    So, I'll say again, RIP M+, the best thing about Legion by far.

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