How the anti-vaxxers are winning

[pathora44]

2+2 can equal five. You just have to go to the decimals. 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8 which would round up to 5. Lets rewrite it using just the rounded numbers.

2 + 2 = 5. Weird!

Ya sorry that isn't how it works because we aren't rounding up or down at all just plain 2+2=5.

[cubby]

I will agree that it's really bad in the US but it's a global problem. Vaccine denial is extremely big in Africa, and the biggest, most harmful anti-vax personality of all was in fact a UK doctor who has thankfully now been barred from practicing medicine thanks to his proven lies.

Wow - I didn't realize this was a global issue. And in Africa - wtf? And UK too? Jesus . . . I can't tell if ignorance is bliss.

What really pisses me off is that the anti-vaxxers are themselves typically vaccinated. So they are basically trying to kill children, while they themselves remain unharmed.

[Felya]

Ya sorry that isn't how it works because we aren't rounding up or down at all just plain 2+2=5.

The 1 is comprised of bias.

[LMuhlen]

We're discussing how vaccines are not given in massive doses. There is a schedule, and you're supposed to follow it.

You don't walk into your pediatricians office and ask them to give your infant every vaccine they will need over the next 18 years all at the same time. Trump's tweet is hyperbole.

- - - Updated - - -



Because vaccines are given in a specific dosage. Saying a child has received a "massive dosage" is implying they received more than they should have, which is false.

A vaccination calendar tested and approved doesn't make it perfect. If by "more than they should have taken", or "massive", he meant to say that the calendar is too agressive, as it probably was meant, it is a proper use. If he used it to say children aren't being vaccinated according to the calendar, which probably isn't what he meant, although it is what you are trying to make it sound as what he meant, then he isn't making sense.

[Guyv3r]

No one knows if sinning will damn your afterlife, but people still go to church. If they believe in something, it's real for them. And poorly written articles like the one in the OP, which clearly try to state uncertainty as absolute truth and also contradicts itself, they may end up backfiring. If it is purposely lying about something to make a point, why should I believe any of it is true? If your position is correct, you shouldn't need to make it more than what it is.

Exactly.
Even though it pains me to acknowledge how stupid some humans are to believe in unproven concepts out of pure fear.

[Lenonis]

The dosage of each vaccine has been tested, along with the schedule by which they are administered.

There is no "massive" dosage. It's a misnomer being used to confuse ignorant people into thinking vaccines that give multiple vaccinations from a single shot are in some way different from giving them in individual injections.

Yes? I mean...my last sentence agrees with your post so I'm not sure if it come through that I agree. I was just saying that there is no consistent definition across medications what a safe "dose" looks like. It can be as high as multiple grams or as low as micrograms depending on the drug in question.

But to just be crystal clear -- the current strength and schedule of the vaccines doses has been proven to be safe and effective.

That doesn't mean, however, that improvements can't be made to make it even better. Which is where my comment about being open to revisiting the schedule -- if there are improvements in site irritation, side effects, or adverse reactions. That's all.

- - - Updated - - -

They should choose whatever causes least risk at the moment

That's actually th opposite of how medicine is practiced. You do what is best in the long run. By your logic radiation treatment for cancer wouldn't be a thing.

[Shalcker]

That's is a great question, because the answer is variable, not static. Your actual chance of encountering diseases that vaccines are eliminating, is exactly proportional to the amount of people who chose not to get vaccinated.

It is variable, as it should be.

It is also possible we're beyond equilibrium point - in which case anti-anti-vaxxer hysteria is unwarranted, and those pushing for even more vaccination "to eradicate disease" are doing more harm then good despite having best intentions. Looking at extremes rather then averages, just like many anti-vaxxers do.

[Lenonis]

100% anti-vaxxers are just as bad as 100% vaxxers who will blindly believe anything the government tosses in their food bowl.

Question everything. The people that control vaccines are the same people destroying our country with opioid prescriptions. It blows my mind people can be such sheep.

1) vaccinations and opiod prescription are like comparing tomatoes and aircraft carriers.
2) trying the false equivalency road to anti-vaxxers and vaxxers is really terrible. One has science and decades of experience and the other has....quackery.
3) calling people sheep doesn't make your argument stronger. In fact it usually delegitimizes your argument given how that term gets tossed around.

[draynay]

Even with their willful ignorance their logic still baffles me. That they would prefer their child be at risk of death rather than be at risk of autism. It isn't a real choice, but they have imagined it is, and they choose death.

[Lenonis]

If they believe in something, it's real for them.

That's not a valid argument for anything. Someone can believe the earth is flat, and it's real for them, but that doesn't make the earth any less round.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's make this partisan herp derp.

I've found that the whole vaccination debate is one of the few things that doesn't really have a strong partisan divide.

[Guyv3r]

That's not a valid argument for anything.

It is for stupid people. Feelz > Realz T_T

[Donald Hellscream]

I would say let idiots be idiots but unfortunately their idiocy is a health risk to other people who for some reason cannot get vaccinated.

[Lenonis]

It is for stupid people. Feelz > Realz T_T

Seeing the rise in this mentality has been very difficult for me to understand and accept. I just don't understand how people can say Trump is honest and forthcoming even when they are presented with two tweets of his in direct contradiction. I literally cannot even.

[LMuhlen]

So by your standard because someone really believes 2+2=5 then that is just as true as 2+2=4 or because they truly believe the Earth is flat it is just as true as the Earth being a sphere. Vaccines do not cause autism that has been proven over and over again the information that tried to prove otherwise was found to be so absolutely fabricated and false the man lost his medical license. The rise in Autism has nothing to do with Vaccines but everything to do with Autism being better understood by the medical community and being diagnosed correctly. People shouldn't listen to a quack doctor trying to in fact patent his own vaccine and a bimbo who got famous for showing her tits on Playboy.

Just to get it out there, I don't have a firm belief that vaccines cause authism. But I have a firm belief that we don't evolve if we don't question things. Earth only became round in people's eyes when its flattness was questioned. Science's understanding of things evolve and things often become less black and white the more you understand it. Giving zero credibility to something means you won't bother trying to properly evaulate it. I think that by questioning the dogma of vaccines we may come to gather more information, from different sources of different backgrounds and then properly reevaluate risks. In the future we could look back to this day and teach our kids how once mankind thought that sumthinsumthinsumthin was true and now we know better, the same way we now teach our kids that the Earth is round.

[Shalcker]

That's actually th opposite of how medicine is practiced. You do what is best in the long run. By your logic radiation treatment for cancer wouldn't be a thing.

That's exactly what i'm talking about - long run.

If you vaccinate your chance of encountering vaccine and related risks (however small) is 100%. Your chance of encountering disease is almost never 100%, and so compound risk of vaccine might (or might not, depending on chances) be higher in the long run.

[Astalnar]

i don't really care either way but how is there gonna be an epidemic if people have the vax's they shouldn't get it even if others do.

Wonders of immigration. Knife attacks isn't all that Somali brought with them to Minnesotta.

[Lenonis]

That's exactly what i'm talking about - long run.

If you vaccinate your chance of encountering vaccine and related risks (however small) is 100%. Your chance of encountering disease is almost never 100%, and so compound risk of vaccine might be higher in the long run.

You are making the mistake of looking at the question of vaccination in a singular bubble. John Doe is looking at his kids and thinking "Hmmm...well...everyone ELSE will vaccinate so I won't because then I reduce the risk of side effects of the vaccines while still maintaining a low chance of exposing them to the illness."

The problem is that because of the mechanics of herd immunity the decision cannot be made in a bubble like that. The decisions has to be made at a societal level -- because otherwise herd immunity breaks down and the chances of John Doe's predictions being true in the long run fall apart. And everyone gets measles.

[Tinykong]

Do you know actual chance of encountering disease nowdays?

I can tell where this is going, and I'm not going to join you.

[Altrec]

Ironically every anti-vaxxer I've ever met has been a hardcore full on hippy Liberal.

I have mostly found the same thing to be true, but the anti-vaxxers like a virus seem to be able to adapt themselves and spread across all political spectrums making it harder to eradicate them.

[Tinykong]

A vaccination calendar tested and approved doesn't make it perfect. If by "more than they should have taken", or "massive", he meant to say that the calendar is too agressive, as it probably was meant, it is a proper use. If he used it to say children aren't being vaccinated according to the calendar, which probably isn't what he meant, although it is what you are trying to make it sound as what he meant, then he isn't making sense.

I'll trust experts and doctors over the ramblings of a reality TV personality.

You're free to disagree.