How high of a minimum wage would you be willing to tolerate?

[kail]

From a cost accounting perspective we can give you solid estimates (or even exact numbers when there is a clear replacement cost) for most of the above. For police officers I admit I'd struggle. Then again, are police officers minimum wage employees???

Not really. How much money is the HR rep bringing in by hiring/firing people? How much is the person who cleans floors bringing to the company? Customer service reps? etc. The answer is none. They don't directly increase the store's or company's income by doing their job, they simply allowing the business to operate. Salesmen are really the only position that provides direct income for the company, some work off of commission and others do not.

There are plenty of factors that dictate wages such as importance, difficulty, required qualifications, and proven performance.

[Mercane]

Not really. How much money is the HR rep bringing in by hiring/firing people? How much is the person who cleans floors bringing to the company? Customer service reps? etc. The answer is none. They don't directly increase the store's or company's income by doing their job, they simply allowing the business to operate. Salesmen are really the only position that provides direct income for the company, some work off of commission and others do not.

There are plenty of factors that dictate wages such as importance, difficulty, required qualifications, and proven performance.

TIL customer retention isn't a source of income. LOL.

[Sunseeker]

It wouldn't pay a 700square feet apartment?

In some places, you'd be lucky to get a 250sqft "studio".

OR... you could go to an internet café.. library etc..

Assuming you have the money for a car (inclu gas and insurance) and one of those things you list is within close proximity.

[Mercane]

Assuming you have the money for a car (inclu gas and insurance) and one of those things you list is within close proximity.

We're you born without legs or live in a rural area without public transportation?

[kail]

TIL customer retention isn't a source of income. LOL.

You going to measure that on an individual level? Customer service is required for the company to operate on some level, therefor the job exists. You think the company is going to give a pay bump to an employee because their customer came back? Hint: No, it doesn't work like that. The rep could have provided the best service possible, customer could still never visit the store again.

[Yamuri]

a million dollars is what i'd tolerate, as long as legitimate businesses are paying enough over that amount for educated people to live life they worked for through education. Inflation will stop minimum wage from being an excessive amount and then people will ask for it to raise again. It never stops.

[Vash The Stampede]

How fast do you want automation to replace workers? Minimum wage is not the answer to poor employment. Basic Income is.

I argue that employers would rethink how much they pay you per hour if Basic Income was a thing. Think of it like this, if you're looking for a job you're not about to say no to minimum wage. What you going to do, ask for Bernie's minimum wage? You take the job or you become homeless. With basic income you can afford to fight for better pay. Meanwhile if the employer isn't having none of that, then they can automate the position all they want.

Lets be honest here, the employers do abuse the system, especially small businesses. About 48 hrs per week is the maximum allowed with exceptions, and you're not required to get paid for a lunch hour, whether you want the lunch hour or not. The reason we have minimum wage is because some people would certainly pay you less if they could. This is why minimum wage exists. Basic income should exist as it'll be a useful tool for people to leverage employers to meet their requirements.

[Sunseeker]

We're you born without legs or live in a rural area without public transportation?

Public transportation in the USA sucks. Big city or not, it sucks. The "take a bus!" argument is incredibly unrealistic for the majority of the country.

I'm not even going to indulge the "legs" argument because all this boils down to is trying to nickle and dime away at the minimum wage "oh you don't need a car!" or "oh you don't need a phone"...yeah no in most of the country having a phone and a car are pretty much mandatory to modern living.

[Stormspark]

Public transportation in the USA sucks. Big city or not, it sucks. The "take a bus!" argument is incredibly unrealistic for the majority of the country.

I'm not even going to indulge the "legs" argument because all this boils down to is trying to nickle and dime away at the minimum wage "oh you don't need a car!" or "oh you don't need a phone"...yeah no in most of the country having a phone and a car are pretty much mandatory to modern living.

Not to mention in a lot of areas in the US you don't want to be using public transportation or walking around because you're likely to get mugged. If you live in a place where a lot of stuff like this is within walking distance, then you're far more likely to be living in an area like this.

People who live in good areas where this isn't an issue and still have stuff within walking distance are a minority.

[Mercane]

I'm not even going to indulge the "legs" argument because all this boils down to is trying to nickle and dime away at the minimum wage "oh you don't need a car!" or "oh you don't need a phone"...yeah no in most of the country having a phone and a car are pretty much mandatory to modern living.

I'm not saying you don't need those things, but if you're making minimum wage, like- that's your skill set or what's available to you. You can probably find work in most parts of the country within walking distance. Then again, it's this desire to achieve that's lacking in most minimum wage workers to begin with.

I walked to work when I was in Grad school, it wasn't the end of the world.

[Elegiac]

OR... you could go to an internet café.. library etc..

Exactly what fucking year do you think this is? 'Internet cafe'.

And the people against minimum wage are generally also against funding libraries.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not saying you don't need those things, but if you're making minimum wage, like- that's your skill set or what's available to you. You can probably find work in most parts of the country within walking distance. Then again, it's this desire to achieve that's lacking in most minimum wage workers to begin with.

I take it you can source this 'lack of desire' beyond your own bullshit anecdotes, yes?

[Faroth]

I'm down, it's a better solution anyway.

It doesn't matter if you claimed it was simple or not. The argument of "I won't support this thing until my incredibly complex and obscure personal tastes are met!" is just really dumb.

Where does the money for universal income come from? I've not seen that explained in what I've read on the concept.

The government can't just print money infinitely to give it out to everyone year after year.

[Linri]

11 dollars an hour... max

i get the fact there are bills, mouths to feed, and life in general.

but, you don't deserve 11 dollars an hour to forget items in my mcdonalds order, or bag my groceries, to collect shopping carts in the parking lot, or to fold t shirts and jeans...

[Adam Jensen]

First off I never claimed it was simple. I just said the idea of a flat rate for the entire country is retarded.

If we are going the route of just throwing money at everyone then might as well do a universal income.

Which, with automation over the horizon, we might have to.

(Note that I'm not really a proponent of UBI, I don't know enough about it, but I do recognize a problem in our future, and UBI is a possible solution.)

And for those of you claiming automation will replace jobs if we raise the minimum wage, you're absolutely right. Thing is though, those jobs will be replaced whether we raise the wage or not.

Minimum wage is $7 an hour. For a single worker that's ~$18,000-$20,000 a year at 40 hours a week (estimating, too lazy for math.) Meanwhile a kiosk probably costs a few thousand dollars to buy, install and set up. The kiosk doesn't need time off, so it can work all shifts continuously. The kiosk doesn't demand benefits. After the initial cost of installation, and occasional maintenance, that single kiosk is doing the work of 2 or 3 workers (depending on if the business has 2 or 3 shifts in that position) for free.

There's no way the minimum wage, whatever the cost, has any effect on automation, because automation is ALWAYS the cheaper option. That or slavery. We did slavery. Didn't work out for us. Still feeling the after effects 150 years later.

[Elegiac]

Where does the money for universal income come from? I've not seen that explained in what I've read on the concept.

The government can't just print money infinitely to give it out to everyone year after year.

This wonderful thing called taxes.

[Sunseeker]

Where does the money for universal income come from? I've not seen that explained in what I've read on the concept.

The government can't just print money infinitely to give it out to everyone year after year.

Well, I would guess that it would be higher corporate taxes, since any company that paid workers less than the "basic" would just not pay those workers instead, and the money would be paid in taxes.

[Elegiac]

11 dollars an hour... max

i get the fact there are bills, mouths to feed, and life in general.

but, you don't deserve 11 dollars an hour to forget items in my mcdonalds order, or bag my groceries, to collect shopping carts in the parking lot, or to fold t shirts and jeans...

Fun Fact: Paying people shit wages generally disincentivizes them from caring about their vocation.

Or in simpler terms, you get what you pay for.

[Sunseeker]

I'm not saying you don't need those things, but if you're making minimum wage, like- that's your skill set or what's available to you. You can probably find work in most parts of the country within walking distance. Then again, it's this desire to achieve that's lacking in most minimum wage workers to begin with.

I walked to work when I was in Grad school, it wasn't the end of the world.

But the goal isn't to just find work. It's to find good work. My current job was 3 hours from where I previously lived and I was lucky enough to move, in part because I had a vehicle. If I didn't, I would have been stuck working a crappy retail job.

- - - Updated - - -

Fun Fact: Paying people shit wages generally disincentivizes them from caring about their vocation.

Or in simpler terms, you get what you pay for.

You would think that companies who use this same logic for their products would understand that.

[Toosdey]

I make 12 which is like $3 and change over min wage and i cant afford to rent a 1 room apt w/o government assistance.

So because you can afford a shitty apartment your set for life and dont need more money?

Thats not what puts you above the poverty line kiddo.

[Adam Jensen]

Fun Fact: Paying people shit wages generally disincentivizes them from caring about their vocation.

Or in simpler terms, you get what you pay for.

And also, treating them like they don't deserve to live off the wage they earn disincentivizes them from caring.

"Why can't the Burger King servers get my order right??"

Well, because they don't give a shit. They don't give a shit, because they hate their job. They hate their job because it doesn't pay well and people treat them like shit. They don't get a new job because [Multitudes of reasons why someone might be stuck in a minimum wage job]