Women fighting to wear a hijab?

[Arbiter]

Quite a few Muslims seem to agree with what I'm saying. http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...Shariadolikeit

That's got nothing to do with what you're saying, actually. And it basically just further proves my point about the middle east being the problem.

You're trying to relate that small group of extremists to 1.6 billion people and a damn piece of clothing. Linking to an irrelevant website with polls isn't going to change that. If you think 1.6 billion Muslims on this earth support or even agree what's going on with ISIS and the middle east then you really need to get a grip on reality. You're talking about a small portion of those people and trying to use them as an example for the rest of the religion.

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either you're not oppressed and don't wear it, or you're oppressed and do wear it.

That's not true at all.

[derpkitteh]

That's not true at all.

its existence is born of oppression, that is its whole nature. to place it upon yourself is to debase yourself through indoctrination.

the indoctrinated cannot speak for their selves, for they have never been allowed to and cannot know what is truly right until taught. they are indoctrinated, they should go through teaching to remove that indoctrination.

[Arbiter]

its existence is born of oppression, that is its whole nature. to place it upon yourself is to debase yourself through indoctrination.

the indoctrinated cannot speak for their selves, for they have never been allowed to and cannot know what is truly right until taught. they are indoctrinated, they should go through teaching to remove that indoctrination.

"I'm Muslim and I choose to wear this Hijab today to support my beliefs." isn't oppression. Doesn't matter how you try to spin it. There are plenty of Muslims even in the US and other developed countries who choose to wear a hijab whether it be all the time or just occasionally. It's their freedom of choice.

[derpkitteh]

"I'm Muslim and I choose to wear this Hijab today to support my beliefs." isn't oppression. Doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

it is indoctrination, it is oppression. she doesn't actually choose, she feels like she does because she's brainwashed to believe it.

[Arbiter]

it is indoctrination, it is oppression. she doesn't actually choose, she feels like she does because she's brainwashed to believe it.

I added an additional 2 sentences to that statement, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Kujako]

it is indoctrination, it is oppression. she doesn't actually choose, she feels like she does because she's brainwashed to believe it.

Clearly the only thing that can save her from people telling her what to wear is different people telling her what to wear!

[Blur4stuff]

If you want to argue indoctrination then you need to apply that to other religious activity as well. You'd have to ban everything related to christianity, for example.

[Daymanmb]

Telling them they can't, is not much different than telling them they must. Freedom goes both ways.

Oh man, first response post teaches OP how silly he is.. this should have been /thread.

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Clearly the only thing that can save her from people telling her what to wear is different people telling her what to wear!

Dont try and make sense of the logic. There isnt any.

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it is indoctrination, it is oppression. she doesn't actually choose, she feels like she does because she's brainwashed to believe it.

Many women in fact do chose to wear one and by saying they cant wear one, is effectively oppressing their freedom to chose.. Its not your right to determine what is appropriate garment for a religious person. Are people who wear a cross on their neck equally brainwashed?

[Deleted]

That's got nothing to do with what you're saying, actually. And it basically just further proves my point about the middle east being the problem.

You're trying to relate that small group of extremists to 1.6 billion people and a damn piece of clothing. Linking to an irrelevant website with polls isn't going to change that. If you think 1.6 billion Muslims on this earth support or even agree what's going on with ISIS and the middle east then you really need to get a grip on reality. You're talking about a small portion of those people and trying to use them as an example for the rest of the religion.

So the survey is irrelevant because you don't agree with it or can't bear that there's actually something to it?

And it has everything to do with what I'm saying. It clearly shows that of all asked Muslims in certain countries, many of them most decidedly not in the Middle East, a very high number of people favor Sharia Law. You know, the one where you can be tried for adultery, fornication, apostasy and intoxication, and men count twice as much as witnesses, etc. Does that sound like a place and ideology that's big on basic human rights and tolerance? Did you not see the riots in the streets in Pakistan when somebody made a film that was critical of Islam or drew their prophet? People lost their lives. Over a cartoon. Embassies had to close under threat of violence, so don't make it sound like it's just a "few bad apples."

[StayTuned]

I thought that having a world wide venue you would want to make the world see you not having to do something. I don't get it.

Freedom means freedom to wear it, or to not wear it. Simple as that. Some women genuinely believe in their religious obligation to wear it, and do it not out fear of being beaten by their men... We should not force them to not wear it.

[Daymanmb]

It clearly shows that of all asked Muslims in certain countries, many of them most decidedly not in the Middle East, a very high number of people favor Sharia Law.

What are you talking about? Out of the top 6 countries on those graphs, 5 are in the Middle East... You seem to struggle with what words mean.

[Arbiter]

So the survey is irrelevant because you don't agree with it or can't bear that there's actually something to it?

And it has everything to do with what I'm saying. It clearly shows that of all asked Muslims in certain countries, many of them most decidedly not in the Middle East, a very high number of people favor Sharia Law. You know, the one where you can be tried for adultery, fornication, apostasy and intoxication, and men count twice as much as witnesses, etc. Does that sound like a place and ideology that's big on basic human rights and tolerance? Did you not see the riots in the streets in Pakistan when somebody made a film that was critical of Islam or drew their prophet? People lost their lives. Over a cartoon. Embassies had to close under threat of violence, so don't make it sound like it's just a "few bad apples."

No it's because it's a measely 38,000 sample size of a measely 39 countries where as only something like 25 countries had majority supported even in that small sample size, which doesn't even speak for the entire country as it is. Now consider the fact that there are 192 countries in this world and 1.6 billion Muslims and you can easily see why it's irrelevant. Those 25 countries also consist of mostly third world countries, many of which are the countries that have a serious problem right now (Middle East as I had mentioned, and Africa) and unfortunately are being represented as the entire Muslim religion.

Hell you can take 38,000 people from the US and ask them if they support Trump. All it takes is selective choosing and/or getting lucky and you might find 80% of those people that did support Trump despite him losing the majority vote and losing even more supporters since. Those 38,000 people wouldn't be a representation of anything and 38,000 people from the US is a much bigger sample size percentage than 38,000 people of 1.6 billion and that's disregarding the fact that its only a select few countries.

You're letting blind hate from watching too much news cloud your logical thinking.

[Daymanmb]

Hell you can take 38,000 people from the US and ask them if they support Trump. All it takes is selective choosing and/or getting lucky and you might find 80% of those people that did support Trump despite him losing the majority vote and losing even more supporters since.

You're letting blind hate from watching too much news cloud your logical thinking.

Sums it up well

[Lady Dragonheart]

either you're not oppressed and don't wear it, or you're oppressed and do wear it.

there is no option where wearing it is not oppression, because it is one of the most sinister amalgamations of oppression just by the very fact that it exists.

Or you can wear it because you either like it, or want to. Oppression is being forced to, not being "allowed" to.

[PACOX]

A women shouldnt have the right to wear a headscarf

[Deleted]

What are you talking about? Out of the top 6 countries on those graphs, 5 are in the Middle East... You seem to struggle with what words mean.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. Are they in the middle east? Here's a map for reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

In talking about who favors Sharia, try to have a look at the chart of what countries seem to favor Sharia.

[Arbiter]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. Are they in the middle east? Here's a map for reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

Yet 38,000 people still have nothing to do with the other 1.6 billion Muslims and have nothing to do with a hijab. You're shooting blanks trying to make a point that doesn't exist.

And while technically Afghanistan and Pakistan might not be geographically in the middle east, they're still a part of the war in the middle east and they're literally touching Iran.

In talking about who favors Sharia, try to have a look at the chart of what countries seem to favor Sharia.

Not only does that have nothing to do with your point, 38,000 across 39 countries don't even speak for the countries themselves much less 1.6 billion people.

Even if those 38,000 people are accurate, it only really would present a problem with those countries. Not with a religion.

[Daymanmb]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. Are they in the middle east? Here's a map for reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

In talking about who favors Sharia, try to have a look at the chart of what countries seem to favor Sharia.

Yeh, this is the level of debate youre capable of.. For Christs sake its your own source...

1. Afghanistan
2. Iraq
3. Palestinian Territories
4. Pakistan
5. Egypt

Looks pretty ME to me... Of the 9 countries on that chart with above 50% favouring Sharia Law, 6 of them are ME.

[Deleted]

They should not make special rules for silly religion reasons. You wanna wear extra clothes to boxing match? Start your own boxing league.

[Deleted]

No it's because it's a measely 38,000 sample size of a measely 39 countries where as only something like 25 countries had majority supported even in that small sample size, which doesn't even speak for the entire country as it is. Now consider the fact that there are 192 countries in this world and 1.6 billion Muslims and you can easily see why it's irrelevant. Those 25 countries also consist of mostly third world countries, many of which are the countries that have a serious problem right now (Middle East as I had mentioned, and Africa) and unfortunately are being represented as the entire Muslim religion.

Hell you can take 38,000 people from the US and ask them if they support Trump. All it takes is selective choosing and/or getting lucky and you might find 80% of those people that did support Trump despite him losing the majority vote and losing even more supporters since. Those 38,000 people wouldn't be a representation of anything and 38,000 people from the US is a much bigger sample size percentage than 38,000 people of 1.6 billion and that's disregarding the fact that its only a select few countries.

You're letting blind hate from watching too much news cloud your logical thinking.

Sure. It's super irrelevant. That's why human rights and basic tolerance just absolutely thrives in any Islamic country, right? That's why the a Pakistani Islam-critic blogger was arrested just a couple of weeks ago in a crackdown against religious freedom, right? That's why Saudi Arabia last year was pushing to increase the punishment for homosexuality, possibly making it a capital offense, right? Because it's just a few bad apples, not an entire system or anything. It's not about blind hate at all, it's about realizing that not all ideas are created equal, and many of the ideas in Islam are decidedly a whole lot shittier than most others. In it's core it's a violent, barbaric and intolerant world view, and the world would obviously be better off without it. No, not all Muslims are evil terrorists, but refusing to acknowledge that Islam in itself is at odds with a free thinking, modern world is just sticking your head in the sand.