Marine Le Pen’s niece ‘guarantees’ gay marriage repeal if she becomes president

[Xarkan]

It's still possible and I hope she loses because she isn't incompetent like Trump.

I am not sure how being incompetent would be a point in Trumps favor?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I am not sure how being incompetent would be a point in Trumps favor?

He can't pass anything but has control of our nuclear arsenal and army...

[mittacc]

Fun fact, early Christianity considered marriage a mundane worldly act unworthy of the church's attention and priests weren't required to officiate weddings for centuries.

Got a source on that?

[Azadina]

Voters of Le Pen are generally labelled pretty bad things already...I really doubt that this will suddenly deter anyone from doing so if they wanted to before...

Plus, I also doubt that a significant amount of people will vote for her because of this. And voting for a party that happens to be against gay marriage - without it being the actual driving factor to do so - is not necessarily hateful and bigoted in itself.

I disagree. Discriminating against people for arbitrary reasons like person being gay, is hateful and bigoted. There's no neutral there, it's negative. If one votes for that, then they condone it, and it puts the person on same low bar as the one who intends to do it. She can't do it without the votes. The votes are the "yes, we want that".

"I voted for her but didn't care about that part" Doesn't fly afterwards. It's still the voter condoning that action with their vote, regardless of what their excuse is.

[Deleted]

I disagree. [...] "I voted for her but didn't care about that part" Doesn't fly afterwards. It's still the voter condoning that action with their vote, whatever their excuse is.

You know, while I was living in Austria, I mostly used to vote for the (Christian Democratic) People's Party - who happens to not exactly be in favour of gay marriage either. I obviously didn't vote for them because of this; actually I would definitely like to see same-sex marriage being on completely equal terms with traditional marriage (being gay myself and all). That said, I was simply putting up with this problem because I agreed with them on most other topics.

Does that alone make me hateful and a bigot now?

[Azadina]

You know, while I was living in Austria, I mostly used to vote for the (Christian Democratic) People's Party - who happens to not exactly be in favour of gay marriage either. I obviously didn't vote for them because of this; actually I would definitely like to see same-sex marriage being on completely equal terms with traditional marriage (being gay myself and all). That said, I was simply putting up with this problem because I agreed with them on most other topics.

Does that alone make me hateful and a bigot now?

Did they want it banned, or didn't like the concept much, but would have left it intact? There's a difference. If they wanted to ban it, and you as gay person vote for them, then honestly I have to say there has to be some sort of self hate involved. Purposefully voting against ones very being makes no sense to me at all.

As edit, it occurred to me to ask. If they wanted to ban it, then two questions: Why did you feel the other topics are worth more than your being? And, why did you feel those other topics are worth more than throwing every other gay person under the bus too?

[Deleted]

So...ur saying Le Pen is a monarchist LOL!!!!!

HA HAA HAA HAA!!

Thx for the input mr wikipedia

No, what he/she said is that the French far-right had its origins with the reactionary/absolutists parties. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of European history would knew that.

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He was talking about arabs n such n said it's due to colonialism. I say it's liberalism that opens ze borders, example Sweden which wasn't a colonial power. France would have lots of arabs even without colonialism.

So, you are entering on an exercise of "What if France never lost its colonies?" and assume everything else?

[Tennis]

Reported for not liking anime.

Definitely an appropriate use of the reporting system. To call weebs barely human is unacceptable.

Live and let live. (Didn't we learn this from Naruto and from One Piece. Poor fella never got exposed to these I guess) @Hombregato

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You know, while I was living in Austria, I mostly used to vote for the (Christian Democratic) People's Party - who happens to not exactly be in favour of gay marriage either. I obviously didn't vote for them because of this; actually I would definitely like to see same-sex marriage being on completely equal terms with traditional marriage (being gay myself and all). That said, I was simply putting up with this problem because I agreed with them on most other topics.

Does that alone make me hateful and a bigot now?

Usually it's best to vote based on all the issues combined unless one issue is a dealbreaker.
Such as with Trump even if he had some good policies on the economy it simply isn't worth it given all his other positions.

[Video Games]

Definitely an appropriate use of the reporting system. To call weebs barely human is unacceptable.

Live and let live. (Didn't we learn this from Naruto and from One Piece. Poor fella never got exposed to these I guess)

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Usually it's best to vote based on all the issues combined unless one issue is a dealbreaker.
Such as with Trump even if he had some good policies on the economy it simply isn't worth it given all his other positions.

Oh you're adorbes.

[Deleted]

@Estherna

What are we dutchies doing that France isn't?
We have the exact same history (except we still have a monarch), colonial, most of our middle eastern inhabitants are children of those who we let in the 50s and 60s (when we needed them to replenish post-ww2 fyi) - yet we seem to go without all these terror attacks, and contrary to popular belief, those people are integrating well. I'm not saying we are perfect, having an Arabian name while applying for jobs will definitely make life harder... but at the same time it is kinda.. scary? that all countries surrounding us have these huge issues and we're just sitting here being like "the fuck you doing".

I swear sometimes I think these ISIS warriors are sitting around their campfire discussing their next target and there's these guys saying "no, we don't take the dutch, they are cool".... as sad as that might be.

Since France is definitely in the top 3 of countries having issues with this, I am just wondering where in history did France take the wrong turn, and we didn't?

Very different type of decolonization, that's why. While you lost Indonesia during the WW2, North Africa became Free France. After the war, Indonesia became indepedent, but North Africa continued to be part of the French Republic until the 1950s.

The closest example with France is Portugal, with the colonies becoming independent in 1974 and nowadays the country is full of migrants and second/third generations from the African and Indian colonies.

[NED funded]

Definitely an appropriate use of the reporting system. To call weebs barely human is unacceptable.

Live and let live. (Didn't we learn this from Naruto and from One Piece. Poor fella never got exposed to these I guess) @Hombregato

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Usually it's best to vote based on all the issues combined unless one issue is a dealbreaker.
Such as with Trump even if he had some good policies on the economy it simply isn't worth it given all his other positions.

I won't stand silent while my views are misrepresented. I called them sub-human filth, not barely humans. That would imply they have rights.

[Deleted]

Is Marion Le Pen alt-right? She is as much of a political loony as her grandfather, though significantly hotter and alt-right is a recent phenomenon. Or is alt-right just a catch all term used indiscriminately?

It at least fits better than "conservative".

[Poppen]

I'm gay and I see no problem with this, Islam is our biggest threat NOT no gay marriage

[Deleted]

Did they want it banned, or didn't like the concept much, but would have left it intact? There's a difference. If they wanted to ban it, and you as gay person vote for them, then honestly I have to say there has to be some sort of self hate involved. Purposefully voting against ones very being makes no sense to me at all.

Austria doesn't have gay marriage, and they are basically in favour of keeping it the way it is (Civil union or similar).

That being said: I would be inclined to agree to some extent, however, being gay (and able to marry) is not the only thing that my life revolves around. It's a big topic for me - obviously - but it isn't all that matters - and I am not going to vote based on a single issue while completely disregarding everything else. Especially considering that they are relatively okay regarding other LGBT issues too.
But then again, I am not living there anymore, so it's mostly irrelevant now anyway (even though I could still vote).

Usually it's best to vote based on all the issues combined unless one issue is a dealbreaker.

Pretty much.

[Azadina]

Austria doesn't have gay marriage, and they are basically in favour of keeping it the way it is (Civil union or similar).

That being said: I would be inclined to agree to some extent, however, being gay (and able to marry) is not the only thing that my life revolves around. It's a big topic for me - obviously - but it isn't all that matters - and I am not going to vote based on a single issue while completely disregarding everything else. Especially considering that they are relatively okay regarding other LGBT issues too.
But then again, I am not living there anymore, so it's mostly irrelevant now anyway (even though I could still vote).

It's slightly different trying to malevolently ban equal rights that have already been granted, and general apathy towards trying to change things where it has not. Of course, if the latter isn't the case either, but instead they actively try to keep it from happening, then it's all the same as the first. In short, hostile action is worse than inaction with the same result, but neither is very commendable.

The topic may not have been all your life revolves around, but it was still literally voting against yourself. How? Well, supporting people by vote, who would not see you as human worth of equal rights, even despite you supporting their cause, is just that.

[Mormolyce]

Got a source on that?

Well the Bible is quite explicit that marriage is a thing of this world, not the next:

34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Luke 20:34-36
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+20

There are equivalent passages in Mark and Matthew. It also spells out that celibacy is the desired state of people, and marriage is just a fallback position for people who can't manage to refrain from sex, the lesser of two evils:

1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+7&version=KJV
1 Corinthians 7:1-2

As for the priests officiating weddings:

3. For the first 1,000 years of Christianity (that's at least HALF of its existence, people), many Christians wouldn't have considered getting married in a church.

Marriages in the West were originally just economic alliances made between two families, with both the church and the state staying out of the proceedings. This meant that weddings didn't require the presence of a priest.

The church got involved in regulating marriage much later on, as its influence began to increase in Western Europe. It wasn't until 1215 that the Church formally put a claim on marriage and hashed out rules about what made children legitimate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...b0ec6725e371d5

The 1215 change it's referring to is the Fourth Lateran Council, which in Canon 51 began a requirement of banns of marriage. This meant a priest announcing the names of those recently marriage from the pulpit, since until then social problems had been caused due to the lack of requirement of witnesses or public announcement of a marriage - note how no member of the clergy is present officiating or this would not have been necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banns_of_marriage
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/lateran4.asp

Marriage licenses weren't introduced until the 1400s and they were still passing clandestine marriage laws up until the 1700s, apparently it was an ongoing problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marria...land_.26_Wales

[Themius]

I'm gay and I see no problem with this, Islam is our biggest threat NOT no gay marriage

Right because it's not like Christians are a threat to gays either.. meanwhile hate crimes in many countries committed against gays are by christians.

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Austria doesn't have gay marriage, and they are basically in favour of keeping it the way it is (Civil union or similar).

That being said: I would be inclined to agree to some extent, however, being gay (and able to marry) is not the only thing that my life revolves around. It's a big topic for me - obviously - but it isn't all that matters - and I am not going to vote based on a single issue while completely disregarding everything else. Especially considering that they are relatively okay regarding other LGBT issues too.
But then again, I am not living there anymore, so it's mostly irrelevant now anyway (even though I could still vote).


Pretty much.

Refusing equal rights to gays is a pretty big dealbreaker.

[Forum Action 22]

I doubt Marine would do such a thing.

[GennGreymane]

I'm gay and I see no problem with this, Islam is our biggest threat NOT no gay marriage

Well, were you plannin on marrying any time soon? Because if not, its already not threat to ya.

[Deleted]

Right because it's not like Christians are a threat to gays either.. meanwhile hate crimes in many countries committed against gays are by christians.

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Refusing equal rights to gays is a pretty big dealbreaker.

Saudi Arabia isn't a christian country.