Everyone on this forum needs to read this

[Revi]

Aka. digging your heels in.

But yeah, we all do it. Worst part is being aware of it only seems to have a very minor effect.

[Zoldor]

I find it interesting that all of you were concerned about the shock value of the facts and not the actual message. That you couldn't see that the facts were meant to be generalized things that commonly cause issue and divisiveness: slavery, religion, and abortion.

The goal wasn't to shock you into a revelation, but to display that the same part of the brain that triggers in a physical confrontation also happens with a ideological one. That unlike when someone is charging you with a rock, you should take a second and let your brain do its thing, then try and listen and try and learn and change or refute with facts. That we are all here together.

But whatever be concerned facts that wouldn't shock most people didn't shock you. Such edge.

[Puri]

I don't get what you are trying to get at. Are you dismissing the comic because it did not find information that was personally shocking to you? Evidence that Jesus Christ could not have been born on Dec 25th to very religious Christians is shocking and they would be extremely if not aggressively dismissive. To hardcore liberals who believe all Republicans are bad to hear that 6 of the 7 approving Justices in Roe V Wade were put in place by Republicans would be shocking. To hardcore conservative flag waving Commie hating Republicans to hear that a Socialist wrote the Pledge of Allegiance that would shock them. These are just a small minuscule grouping of examples of things that some groups would find shocking and would be against. These are examples to give to think that because the examples they give don't directly affect you and to dismiss the comic outright is purely just arrogant. The comic makes a good point that it seems you could use in your own life.

Well, that requires you to know the certain kind of people you address.
If you would ask a priest (aka a fairly religious man) here in Germany if Jesus was born on Dec 25th (which is curious in the first place, since here we believe he was born the day before that) he will openly say it's just a symbolic date. Nobody really believes that, even "hardcore" christians.
We have no idea wat "Row V Wade" is. The Pledge of Allegiance is just some patriotic lyric for us, no idea if it is more socialist or republican.
So you see, it's not about the "shocking" behind those arguments, it's about understanding them at all, and obviously it is targetting the US audience.

[Dispraise]

I find it interesting that all of you were concerned about the shock value of the facts and not the actual message.

That's because the actual message was buried under far too many words and the self-importance of the author, and far too little of actual interest or merit.

The point could have been made much better and much more succinctly in the space the author chose to take to say "you have to read this to the end, guys", except that would have robbed them the opportunity to write a masturbatory dissertation on things we're all already well aware of.

[Zoldor]

I bet the same people who this applies to and go mad with internet discussions also don't have the patience to sit through all that.

Yeah, its longer than a meme or a tweet so you are probably right.

[Moralgy]

That was an interesting read. Had no idea Washington's first set of teeth mentioned was such an abomination of materials, thought the wood one was the myth to hide the slave set.

[Zoldor]

That's because the actual message was buried under far too many words and the self-importance of the author, and far too little of actual interest or merit.

The point could have been made much better and much more succinctly in the space the author chose to take to say "you have to read this to the end, guys", except that would have robbed them the opportunity to write a masturbatory dissertation on things we're all already well aware of.

Kind of follows the stop listen and follow through with the entire discussion perspective of the message.

[starlord]

this is stuff that should be taught in school instead of ~prayer~.

[Deleted]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Basically, if you challenge someones world view - whether it is true or not - they can't help but trigger themselves. This a natural response when being challenged by another opinion or argument. I personally have been able to recognize this (within my self and others) when arguing with people. One word of warning, don't bring it up in the heat of a argument!

Wow. Really. You're telling me people react defensively when their views are challenged. Who would have thought.

[Dispraise]

Kind of follows the stop listen and follow through with the entire discussion perspective of the message.

Except the only reason I wouldn't have stopped and listened in the first place isn't because "you're challenging my world views!", but because "dear god stop talking".

The message conveyed isn't what the author intended, but simply that the author values what they have to say much more highly than I do.

[pathora44]

Well, that requires you to know the certain kind of people you address.
If you would ask a priest (aka a fairly religious man) here in Germany if Jesus was born on Dec 25th (which is curious in the first place, since here we believe he was born the day before that) he will openly say it's just a symbolic date. Nobody really believes that, even "hardcore" christians.
We have no idea wat "Row V Wade" is. The Pledge of Allegiance is just some patriotic lyric for us, no idea if it is more socialist or republican.
So you see, it's not about the "shocking" behind those arguments, it's about understanding them at all, and obviously it is targetting the US audience.

So you miss the point my post you quoted that just because it is not shocking to you does not mean it isn't shocking to someone else. Just because said priest in Germany states that Dec 25th is a symbolic date for Christ's birth does not mean another priest in Germany doesn't believe that Dec 25th is the exact date of Christ birth and to say any different is blaspheme against God himself. Never once in the link did the author of the comic state that only the beliefs he stated were shocking and everyone held them. He went into detail about Core Beliefs which everyone has and are different for everyone because they are built upon by from your childhood and your experiences from then on which range wildly from person to person. Finally so who cares if he wrote it from an American perspective I can only presume that the author is American. Just because a Japanese philosopher is writing to a Japanese audience can you not gain something from what he says or do you only take in what is told to you from German people. Should people only take in something from a perspective that is purely from their exact perspective. Should it be as broad as gender or race, how about country of origin, province, county, city, town, or only from your own personal family. You dismiss the entire comic because the examples given isn't information that is shocking to you or from a German perspective and in turn you are completely missing the point of the author.

[Deleted]

I already do it every single day of my life, nothing new for me. The problem is when the person on the other side refuses to do so, my brain "fuck yeah, a new puzzle to resolve!" and try to explain the same thing in any way possible...

... my brain tires me sometimes...

[Zoldor]

Except the only reason I wouldn't have stopped and listened in the first place isn't because "you're challenging my world views!", but because "dear god stop talking".

The message conveyed isn't what the author intended, but simply that the author values what they have to say much more highly than I do.

That is valid. I'm also not sure this comic really applies to most of us that are challenging it. Cutting his examples to 2 or just stopping at the washington one would have been a more concise way to do it. Edit edit edit...the king of all writing. Else we end up like Dickens, hollowed out to stash items.

**edit** Might need to start using Martin over Dickens for this analogy.

[The Penguin]

Read it all through and honestly it's exactly on point.

I did not know about G.Washington's Slave Teeth. It makes sense however given the time-period.

As for Jesus Birth, I doubt anyone can say for certain what the true date was 2000 years ago. Celebrating it to coincide with a Solstice was probably a move by the Catholics to proselytize people. It doesn't however take away from the core messages and values of the New Testament at all, or from a believer believing that he rose from the Grave. We only know 'something' happened, since it's since discussed 2000-ish years later. This is why I always say "what works for one political side.. HAS to work for the other." True Equality is a bitch because everyone must conform.

Unfortunately all this sentiment and thinking gets you this on off-topic most of the time is this.

[Deleted]

Just read the comic and... who gives a shit about Washington's teeth? Who gives a shit about any of that crap? Couldn't they have picked better examples? If you care in any way about any of these "revelations" I feel sorry for you to begin with.

And honestly I'm getting an SJW vibe from it at the ending. "Listen and believe". Sorry but just because someone says something that goes against my beliefs doesn't mean they are right either.

- - - Updated - - -

Read it all through and honestly it's exactly on point.

I did not know about G.Washington's Slave Teeth. It makes sense however given the time-period.

lol did you check the sources he provided? he didn't have slave teeth, two of the sources don't mention them and one says there's no evidence to suggest he used slave teeth

it's something the author made up to fuck with you and you fell for it

[Dezerte]

Ah, the Backfire effect. I suppose that at best we can just be aware of it, and realize that nobody is safe from it and we might not even realize when we're doing it that we are doing it.

[The Penguin]

Just read the comic and... who gives a shit about Washington's teeth? Who gives a shit about any of that crap? Couldn't they have picked better examples? If you care in any way about any of these "revelations" I feel sorry for you to begin with.

And honestly I'm getting an SJW vibe from it at the ending. "Listen and believe". Sorry but just because someone says something that goes against my beliefs doesn't mean they are right either.

- - - Updated - - -



lol did you check the sources he provided? he didn't have slave teeth, two of the sources don't mention them and one says there's no evidence to suggest he used slave teeth

it's something the author made up to fuck with you and you fell for it

No. It's something that made sense in my estimates and I didn't think enough to research as I'm still at work. Thanks for clarifying it was false thought. If I gave two shits I might look again. Super Triggered today Anduin? You need to spec Ret first. Core point that all people should calm their tits and listen rather than bite fingers off or rage like Liberals at Berkeley is a good one.

[Rukh]

Bigger assertions need more discernment than irrelevant assertions.

http://imgur.com/KR93TA2

[brimdog]

this just in: most humans are just retared fuking monkeys

[Xirrohon]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Basically, if you challenge someones world view - whether it is true or not - they can't help but trigger themselves. This a natural response when being challenged by another opinion or argument. I personally have been able to recognize this (within my self and others) when arguing with people. One word of warning, don't bring it up in the heat of a argument!

Nice, so George Washington was the first Donkey Teeth.