How the anti-vaxxers are winning

[Alfador]

Wow - I didn't realize this was a global issue. And in Africa - wtf? And UK too? Jesus . . . I can't tell if ignorance is bliss.

What really pisses me off is that the anti-vaxxers are themselves typically vaccinated. So they are basically trying to kill children, while they themselves remain unharmed.

It is that bad. The motivations are different but the end result is the same. Honestly, a bunch of soccer moms endangering immune-compromised students in suburban America is nothing compared to campaigns by developing or crowded regions like Africa and India, often driven by local/tribal leaders on the back of religious doctrine or anti-western sentiment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720046/

In some cases, they probably are trying to "kill children" or at least don't care if it happens, because they're simply using it as a tool to consolidate power and create a boogieman. I think most often though it's pure ignorance and stupidity. Maybe it's religion instead of naturalism but it's ultimately that same distrust of science. They genuinely think they're doing the right thing which honestly makes it scarier. There is some pure evil and malice for sure but honestly most of the decisions that have created human disasters throughout history were usually made by someone who thought they were right on some level or another.

[Frolk]

Child sized coffins are cheaper than adult ones, thats prolly why

[Alfador]

While I don't agree that a single vaccination can cause harm, giving as many as we do in such succession, which is what is being said here, could potentially be harmful. You're making it like he's saying "GET RID OF VACCINES" which he isn't but your inherent obsessive hatred has blinded you. Then again you probably think he's racist as well when there's no proof to it. Fact is he's saying there could be something wrong in giving so many shots at once and maybe we should space them out better which is a valid concern. Meanwhile the actual anti vaxxers are saying no vaccines at all. Learn to read please.

The standard for vaccines is actually a carefully planned, very safe schedule approved by the US CDC and the World health Organization. The only time vaccine saturation like that is a problem is when you get abbreviate or compressed schedules because parents or doctors miss or delay milestones. Honestly even in those cases it's still far far safer, by many orders of magnitude, than going without.

[Prossy]

Nothing to do with liking the short version or not, your ideas about smallpox are flat out bullshit you pulled from where the sun doesn't shine.

no i pulled them out of a history book *pats*

[Alfador]

Losing a medical license by itself doesn't mean all that much to me. Around here, the institution that handles licenses is known for being agenda driven, extremelly conservative and somewhat unethical, borderline corrupt. Maybe things are better there in the US, but I doubt they are flawless. Especially the agenda driven part. I remember seeing documentaries of scientists losing professional licenses up there for standing against the man. There was one about frogs and pesticides.

Making up numbers sounds more serious, but that is more common than it should be, with all the privatly funded scientific studies... It's why usually people tend to check where the money comes from when giving relevance to studies.

Oh come on. Yes, it occasionally happens, but it's the hallmark of every snake-oil salesman to claim they're being persecuted for their message when they get punished for their fraud.

Wakefield not only lost his medical license but had basically every one of his published vaccine studies and papers retracted by the journals that published them. He was also stomped into the ground (metaphorically speaking) when he filed a libel lawsuit in british court against Channel 4. By British libel standards it's relatively easy to get a libel judgement (it's actually on the party being sued to prove their statements were not untruthful) and yet he still was chased out of court and forced to drop his suit after numerous losses. Absent any compelling evidence to the contrary, of which there is absolutely none, he's guilty as hell.

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Vaxxers will suffer the same fate as those that bought those condos on Miami beach...refuse to listen to scientists and professionals and you have to pay the price!

I assume you mean anti-vaxxers? I can't tell if that's just a minor slip or a joke I don't get or something.
Unfortunately though it's not just them who pays the price. It's mostly their children, and the children of others who had nothing to do with it, who can't get vaccines and rely on herd immunity for protection.

It's like drunk drivers. If drunk drivers never killed anyone but themselves we really wouldn't have to give a shit about them but unfortunately they take innocents with them.

[Orbitus]

no i pulled them out of a history book *pats*

Please, by all means, link the source. And quit trying to talk down to people. It isn't working. It just shows you are trying to be condescending even though you are wrong.

[Prossy]

Acting pretty rabid and childish. Maybe people would take your opinions more seriously if you were being more logical and coherent.

not as childish as that PM you sent me

I guess it's a good thing those aren't in most vaccines, like MMR's that we're talking about.

Wait, you... You knew that, right?

You tell me https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf

Also weird in a thread where pro-vaxxers are trolling and flamming people and threating anti-vaxxers that only the "anti-vaxxers" are getting infracted *pats*

[GennGreymane]

not as childish as that PM you sent me



You tell me https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf

Also weird in a thread where pro-vaxxers are trolling and flamming people and threating anti-vaxxers that only the "anti-vaxxers" are getting infracted *pats*

Then I know the true intent of your post, its not about knowledge, but pure ignorance.

[zealo]

no i pulled them out of a history book *pats*

Awfully vague statement, do source that book. Id love to see what author makes such claims and what they back it up with.

[Lenonis]

Not a conspiracy theory, just an off topic discussion. I broke no forum rules unlike you who resorted to derogatory flaming.

Actually I didn't flame you. You did, in fact, post conspiracy comment and you did, in fact, demonstrate with your posting that you neither have a scientific background nor an understanding of the pharma industry. I didn't call you stupid, I called you uneducated about specific topics. Which, clearly by your posting, you are. That's not flaming, that's just reality.

If you still think i'm wrong to go Robert F. Kennedy Jr and Robert De Niro and claim the $100,000 reward with your "evidence" that vaccines are safe and effective, should be easy money right? *pats*

How do you think this is evidence of...anything?

The scientific consensus, Offit stated, was clear: “There are seven studies, published from 2000 to 2007, showing that children who received thimerosal-containing vaccines were at no greater risk of getting autism as compared to those who contained the same vaccines that didn’t contain thimerosal.”

Thimerosal was taken out of children’s vaccines in 1999 out of an abundance of caution, and most flu vaccines no longer contain thimerosal either. Since that time, despite thimerosal no longer being present in the vast majority of vaccines administered, autism rates have steadily increased. 1 in 45 children are currently diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder.

It's just getting embarrassing at this point.

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things like Mercury and aluminum does not belong in the human body end of because they are neuro-toxins both damaging on their own, mix them together and they have a serious chemcial reaction.

Bad news for you. mercury and aluminum are already in the human body and either of those is present in their elemental form in vaccines (and never were) and wtf serious chemical reaction are you going on about?

I'm also curious where you got your medical, chemistry, or biology degree from?

[Garnier Fructis]

You tell me https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf

Also weird in a thread where pro-vaxxers are trolling and flamming people and threating anti-vaxxers that only the "anti-vaxxers" are getting infracted *pats*

He said 'aren't in most vaccines', and you proved his point by linking a long list of vaccines where only a handful have thimerosol. *pats*

Also, elemental mercury is toxic, and some compounds containing mercury are toxic. Does this mean that every compound with mercury is toxic? Of course not, welcome to chemistry. With this sort of bad reasoning, you'd better not eat any salt at all because that shit has chlorine, and chlorine is toxic. *pats*

[Prossy]

Then I know the true intent of your post, its not about knowledge, but pure ignorance.

The intent of my post was to answer the OP and i did

[A dot Ham]

So I read this opinion piece and was wondering what you guys thought about this? Could we see an epidemic soon because of people's unwillingness to protect not only their child but the rest of the population?



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/o...ning.html?_r=0

My mother-in-law (a nurse) went from being pro-vaccine, to 100% complete anti-vaxxer in the span of 7 episodes.

https://go.thetruthaboutvaccines.com/

Its ridiculous how people just soak in information and don't question any of it. Healthy skepticism is the route to truth and wisdom. Blind acceptance... is just ignorant. People are watching this video series and taking as complete fact... I kid you not... they don't question ANY of it. I swear its brainwashing. I just don't get how you can watch a single video series, and accept it all as complete fact. Like just because someone took the time to film it, means it must be true.

Its the complete 180 that creeps me out.

My kids get pink eye and her solution is to put breast milk in their eyes. No thanks, wacko... I'm taking them to the doctor.

Also despite the fact that the Doctor who fabricated the link between autism and vaccines lost his license. This group is still trying to create data, or find any way to link and justify anti-vaccinations. It is truly a cult of misinformation, and children will die as a result of their conspiracy theorizing and fear mongering.

This same woman btw... completely lost her mind when I had misgivings about circumcising my 2nd child. I was circumcised, my 1st born was circumcised (I watched). For my second... though after much more research, I really felt that just because the rest of us had it done, didn't mean HE had to have it done. It bothers me every time I change his diaper, I should have stood my ground...

[Lenonis]

get bitten by a rabid dog

i've been bitten by dogs several times before

You missed a rather key word.

Which is really the problem with your posting in this discussion -- you are ignoring the key elements of the discussion that you have no valid response to and instead choose to pick and choose the out-of-context parts you do have a conspiracy theory response for.

I've noticed, as I said early on, you're not being infracted for posting the conspiracy theories -- and I will reiterate -- don't complain. You were pointed out that you were breaking the TOS of the forums.

[GennGreymane]

The intent of my post was to answer the OP and i did

I wouldn't call being ignorant to medical science answering.

[Lenonis]

You tell me https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf

All you have done is prove you have no idea how chemistry works. Especially the part of how bonded elements react REALLY differently than elemental...er...elements.

[Corvus]

Saying vaccines contain mercury just flat out proves ignorance on chemistry.

There is no pure mercury in any vaccines - there is a compound in a few that do contain mercury but that is a very, very different thing.

Yes, pure mercury is dangerous. But then again so is pure sodium and pure chlorine. They used chlorine as a poison weapon during WW1.

But put sodium and chlorine together and what do you get? Salt. Yup, salt is made up of two highly dangerous substances that together form a substance that not only do we eat but a body needs.

[Orbitus]

not as childish as that PM you sent me



You tell me https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf

Also weird in a thread where pro-vaxxers are trolling and flamming people and threating anti-vaxxers that only the "anti-vaxxers" are getting infracted *pats*

You got infracted for peddling conspiracy theories. Not because you are an anti-vaxxer. You can stop with that patting bullshit.

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The intent of my post was to answer the OP and i did

And failed SPECTACULARLY at that. Your answer was nothing but pure horseshit conspiracy theories.

[Lenonis]

You got infracted for peddling conspiracy theories. Not because you are an anti-vaxxer.

Hey, I even warned him long before and he continued posting even more conspiracy theories. *shrug* That's the problem with conspiracy theorists. They believe everything ELSE is the real conspiracy and will now think MMO-C is being paid by the evil pharma companies to push evil vaccines to create a society of autistic children so they can take over the world. Or something like that. It creeps me out how twisted the minds of people like that work.

[LMuhlen]

We need a shaman to enlighten us. An elemental shaman.

/badum tss

Mercury is different than chlorine and sodium because it has no use in our body in any form, afaik. And the body has a very hard time getting rid of it, so it just tends to stay there all your life.

And what's up with all the patting? That sounds anti-hygienic, I hope you took your shots.