Hanamura map.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

That's not a bug tho

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Except Zagara is amazing on the map for constant lane pushing with Nydus, you always have to contest her or lose a double payload.

i used those as an example. What i mean to say is, it sucks having maps where certain characters are far from desirable pop up in QM.

[Deleted]

i used those as an example. What i mean to say is, it sucks having maps where certain characters are far from desirable pop up in QM.

True, but then your safe bet would be unranked if you dont wanna risk abysmal matchups

[Mystrome]

i used those as an example. What i mean to say is, it sucks having maps where certain characters are far from desirable pop up in QM.

Well, isn't that the case for any map? Some maps are awesome for certain heroes while others simply aren't.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Well, isn't that the case for any map? Some maps are awesome for certain heroes while others simply aren't.

I think most heroes can be played on any map, since they still have a decent toolkit for all round performance. However, it is not so for heavy pushing heroes on maps where pushing is not as important, or would even detract from the main purpose of the map, Towers of Doom being my main example, where yes, pushing does increase the amount of shots you do per shrine capped, and reduces the amount of shots the other team has, however recapping the keep is pretty easy and brings a full hp keep back for the other team, so the effect isnt permanent and imo effective as it would be on other maps.

sorry for the huge run on sentence there

[Stormcall]

anyone who complains about the camps being useless and are losing against a group of peers might want to connect the dots.

I've won most games on this maps, and on 2/3 of them, our team pretty much ignored mercs. So it's easy to connect the dots and see that, yes, indeed, the mercs are boring and offer little real value.

[mickybrighteyes]

The Starcraft characters are played in a completely different way, with different skillsets and in a singleplayer or co-op setting of an RTS.

the bold also applies to overwatch heroes in the fps vs MOBA style...

[Noomz]

the bold also applies to overwatch heroes in the fps vs MOBA style...

Wouldnt you agree that it's more fun to get old characters into a new game, instead of new characters into an older game?
Wouldn't you also agree that it's more fun to get to play characters you can't actually play in any capacity, like Diablo or even a unit made into a hero like Sgt Hammer?
I think it is. It's a lot more fun. So from my point of view, the least amount of fun and the absolutely least interesting characters are the ones from Overwatch. Do you understand my point of view at least?

[mickybrighteyes]

Wouldnt you agree that it's more fun to get old characters into a new game, instead of new characters into an older game?
Wouldn't you also agree that it's more fun to get to play characters you can't actually play in any capacity, like Diablo or even a unit made into a hero like Sgt Hammer?
I think it is. It's a lot more fun. So from my point of view, the least amount of fun and the absolutely least interesting characters are the ones from Overwatch. Do you understand my point of view at least?

new characters in HotS will still be new characters in HotS. Complaining over the source of said characters is pointless. You clearly have a gripe about Overwatch for some reason. Personally... I find characters like Lt. Morales and Sgt Hammer kind of silly. They're random yo's thrown onto some nameless model from literally nowhere. Hell samuro isn;t far off from them as he was just a random hero name from the WC3 files. Also, as there are only FOUR overwatch heroes and more than 4 from every other recent blizzard game... kind of seems odd to neglect one of the more unique games they've made recently. I'd honestly like to see a REAL widowmaker show up in the game and not just a Nova skin.

TLDR:
I understand your point, but think it's a silly argument. HotS is supposed to pull from all the games blizz made and overwatch is barely present at all to begin with. Also your idea of interesting isn't other people's idea of interesting.

edit:

old characters into a new game, instead of new characters into an older game

The newness of HotS is the same regardless of whether the characters are coming from Diablo, Overwatch, Starcraft, or Warcraft. A new character in HotS is regardless a new character for HotS.

[Tenjen]

I've won most games on this maps, and on 2/3 of them, our team pretty much ignored mercs. So it's easy to connect the dots and see that, yes, indeed, the mercs are boring and offer little real value.

Then you were not fighting against a group of peers. or atleast not ones who also used the mercs to their advantage over you. Its up to those present to strategically use the tools. You can bring the horse to the water but..

[Arachnofiend]

Fast siege heroes are strong on this map. Pushing keeps is irrelevant, but if you can get both forts before your opponent gets any that is probably GG.

Bribe is incredibly powerful too; Brightwing can pretty much guarantee you have the health regen item available for every team fight.

I will say that they definitely need to increase the core health, even if just by one. The map ends way too quickly.

[Jastall]

My problem with this map is that Merc camps are nigh useless.

Given that there is still a point to destroying enemy bases (it empowers your payloads, +1 core damage per base), then they really should spawn mercs as is normally the case (to go after enemy bases/etc) - as opposed to the items they drop which are basically useless.

Yeah, that's definitely a problem too. The only time mercs can be useful is if there's no payload up and you need that last one from the boss. The rest waste your time on a map where matches are so short time is at a premium.

[Noomz]

new characters in HotS will still be new characters in HotS. Complaining over the source of said characters is pointless. You clearly have a gripe about Overwatch for some reason. Personally... I find characters like Lt. Morales and Sgt Hammer kind of silly. They're random yo's thrown onto some nameless model from literally nowhere. Hell samuro isn;t far off from them as he was just a random hero name from the WC3 files. Also, as there are only FOUR overwatch heroes and more than 4 from every other recent blizzard game... kind of seems odd to neglect one of the more unique games they've made recently. I'd honestly like to see a REAL widowmaker show up in the game and not just a Nova skin.

TLDR:
I understand your point, but think it's a silly argument. HotS is supposed to pull from all the games blizz made and overwatch is barely present at all to begin with. Also your idea of interesting isn't other people's idea of interesting.

edit:

You must be ignoring the things I write, since if you had read them and understood them, you'd understand why I prefer some characters and franchises over Overwatch.

Samuro isn't a random character.

It's really, really pointless and a completely mute point to make that my opinion is in fact my opinion. You state that like it's some insight and something clever, like it's somehow a counter to what I've said, none of which disagrees or states that it is in fact just my opinion or that my opinion is superior or should go above others.

The newness of HotS is the same regardless of whether the characters are coming from Diablo, Overwatch, Starcraft, or Warcraft. A new character in HotS is regardless a new character for HotS.

Complete rubbish. You don't understand my view on this at all.
Entirely an objective fact, an old character put in HotS is an old character made new. THAT, is fun.

[mickybrighteyes]

Samuro isn't a random character.

Tojara, Nikoro, Kajind, Mikasa, Samuro, Akinos, Mazuru, Yozshura, Daisho, Kigami, Arashicage, Moogul the Sly, Jubei

This is the list of 'random names your blademaster hero unit could have in the game warcraft 3. These names were not tied to any canon characters at the time....

Samuro is also the name of the lead singer of E.T.C. who is a warrior, but not a blademaster.

At some point, blizz went in and added a little bit on a character named Samuro of the Burning Blade.... but how much you wanna bet that character could have been named 'Jubei' (not to be confused with Jubei'thos) or Mikasa (and taken as a joke reference for slaying titans).

As Samuro in HotS is not tied to E.T.C. and that was the first Samuro to appear in WoW I wonder where else this master of the blade from burning blade came from? *looks at random name selection from RTS Blademaster character with same skill set*... oh hey!

The rest of your 'objective' argument is laced in your own subjective bias against overwatch as what you find interesting or not interesting is a subjective opinion that other people may not share.

[blankfaced]

So we just found an awesome bug(?) on this map. You can contest the payload, reverse the payload and escort the payload while stealthed. Had a Valeera doing it against my team today. Most retarded shit ever.

You can take any objective while in stealth though.

[mickybrighteyes]

Honestly, I feel like the payload idea needs some tweaking. Like being able to force an enemy's payload off the map in some fashion instead of leaving them 2 at some point if it progresses. Had one retarded game where my team was running payloads fairly well and unobstructed, but the other team basically left their payloads at the spawn point and pushed our lanes... hard. Took towers and then came back later and pushed their empowered payloads.

I feel that if payloads are left undefended at their spawn point they should be subject to being destroyed or stolen

[RH92]

-snip-

Stop acting like you know everything:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Samuro_(Warcraft_III)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIvRYAHaS6Q

The guy stated his opinion and you keep attacking him with a blunt fork because his opinion is not in line with yours.

[Tenjen]

Tojara, Nikoro, Kajind, Mikasa, Samuro, Akinos, Mazuru, Yozshura, Daisho, Kigami, Arashicage, Moogul the Sly, Jubei

This is the list of 'random names your blademaster hero unit could have in the game warcraft 3. These names were not tied to any canon characters at the time....

Samuro is also the name of the lead singer of E.T.C. who is a warrior, but not a blademaster.

At some point, blizz went in and added a little bit on a character named Samuro of the Burning Blade.... but how much you wanna bet that character could have been named 'Jubei' (not to be confused with Jubei'thos) or Mikasa (and taken as a joke reference for slaying titans).

As Samuro in HotS is not tied to E.T.C. and that was the first Samuro to appear in WoW I wonder where else this master of the blade from burning blade came from? *looks at random name selection from RTS Blademaster character with same skill set*... oh hey!

The rest of your 'objective' argument is laced in your own subjective bias against overwatch as what you find interesting or not interesting is a subjective opinion that other people may not share.

you try to play down the fact that the "little bit of character" is him actually appearing in the orc campaign of the expansion for an entire mission and having stories developed around him in the lore. That is a pretty significant step in making him more than a random character.

[mickybrighteyes]

Stop acting like you know everything:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Samuro_(Warcraft_III)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIvRYAHaS6Q

The guy stated his opinion and you keep attacking him with a blunt fork because his opinion is not in line with yours.

was that quest part of the game ore a later addition? I ask cause I don't recall that and makes even less sense for a burning blade orc to be working with the group setting up Durotar unless something was missed along the way. Id likely have just mentally left this in the same spot as Hakkar houndmaster vs soul flayer where a bunch of people liked the name and ran with it.

you try to play down the fact that the "little bit of character" is him actually appearing in the orc campaign of the expansion for an entire mission and having stories developed around him in the lore. That is a pretty significant step in making him more than a random character.

I honestly don't remember Samuro being present in any campaign mission but listed as one of the randomly generated names in the files for Warcraft 3. The only actual Samuro I was aware of that was dubbed as such as a unique character in the last ten years was the lead singer of E.T.C. who is nothing like the HotS character.

[RH92]

was that quest part of the game ore a later addition? I ask cause I don't recall that and makes even less sense for a burning blade orc to be working with the group setting up Durotar unless something was missed along the way. Id likely have just mentally left this in the same spot as Hakkar houndmaster vs soul flayer where a bunch of people liked the name and ran with it.

He played a role in second chapter of The Founding of Durotar campaign in The Frozen Throne.

Initially there was only one chapter, but they added two additional chapters in patch later.

[Strangewayes]

So we just found an awesome bug(?) on this map. You can contest the payload, reverse the payload and escort the payload while stealthed. Had a Valeera doing it against my team today. Most retarded shit ever.

Rexxar counts as 2 heroes next to the payload. TLV counts as 3 heroes. Cho'gall counts as one.

It just ends up as a mad dash to see who can farm camps and take down a tower as fast possible before the first 5 minutes are up. Then it's just everyone running everywhere around the map trying to push or contest payloads. What's worth more? A x2 payload that you die defending while trying to finish off a fort? Or a x1 payload you push in plenty of time?

A lot of Heroes end up being hamstrung by the moving payload mechanics, stationary turrets for example, or character who rely on stacks of something from lanes to increase their power. The game is usually over before most specialists can finish pushing a 2nd or 3rd fort.

Teams can purposefully leave payloads to block your payloads to allow them more time to take out the boss.

I think there is just too much complexity and stuff to keep track of on this map, with usable items you have to carry with you everywhere, and that you drop if you die. Maybe some hardcore HL players think its "super deep". But the fact you have to explain why nothing seemed to happen when the took a camp, makes it very unintuitive for a HOTS map.