I've done some Testing on ToS trinkets

[LucasVolken]

I did some testing with the trinkets just now, found craddle really low, since you can't keep it up 100% of the time. I used this gear just changing the trinkets (I can't link anything yet so if you want to see the gear just remove the spaces) http :/ /us.battle .net/wow/pt/character/azralon/Maskin/simple
I got those following Results:
Trinket1 + Trinket 2 - DPS -Time- Amount of damage done
Draught + Convergeance - 782k - 5:29 -254.93m
Draught + Cinders - 784k - 5:47 - 271.35m
Draught + Craddle - 782k - 5:24 - 253.43m
Cinders - Craddle - 766k - 5:45 - 260.46m
Specter of Betrayal - Craddle - 783k - 5:22 - 249.2m
Specter + Cinders - 830k - 5:26 - 268.95m
Notes: Did not test Engine of Erradication; Used flask and food; Did not have anyone around using Burning Cinders; Have not dropped under 80%(meaning Craddle was at full effectiveness the whole time); Have not Used the execute rotation(meaning this is only for 20%+ of the boss)
I actually got really surprised on how strong Specter of Betrayal and Burning Cinders are. I think definitely that Cinders will be a BiS but I still have my doubts about Specter, maybe with the new tier it could be better to use some more haste.

[Qoma]

What was the reasoning behind omitting Engine, just out of curiosity?

edit - after re-reading you may have been doing in-game testing and not simming, meaning you just may not have had the Engine?

[Archimtiros]

Nice testing, but not exactly comprehensive; left out a lot of trinkets, also keep in mind that your Draught is 895 while PTR vendor trinkets are 905. None of those are the current best setup.

[deadmanfred]

Nice testing, but not exactly comprehensive; left out a lot of trinkets, also keep in mind that your Draught is 895 while PTR vendor trinkets are 905. None of those are the current best setup.

So? Why are you mentioning this, should be pretty obvious to most this was someone fooling around on the ptr, and some info not yet givin pretty interesting even if most of the data will probably change before release.

I mean seriously, you expect him to get trinkets from the new +15 or something while their on the pre or something? Get over yourself, what useful info are you really bringing to the table with this remark?

[Prettynoose]

Thanks for the info, nice to have some hope that DoS and CoS won't be BIS throughout Tomb!

Good work and thanks for sharing what your obviously spent a lot of time doing!

PN

[ghostblade]

So? Why are you mentioning this, should be pretty obvious to most this was someone fooling around on the ptr, and some info not yet givin pretty interesting even if most of the data will probably change before release.

I mean seriously, you expect him to get trinkets from the new +15 or something while their on the pre or something? Get over yourself, what useful info are you really bringing to the table with this remark?

man you got a bit angry for nothing? You do know Archimtiros is the one behind the fury guide on mmo-champion right? He wants this info as much as we do but he does wanna have them at bit of a straighter testing ilvl.

[Archimtiros]

So? Why are you mentioning this, should be pretty obvious to most this was someone fooling around on the ptr, and some info not yet givin pretty interesting even if most of the data will probably change before release.

I mean seriously, you expect him to get trinkets from the new +15 or something while their on the pre or something? Get over yourself, what useful info are you really bringing to the table with this remark?

Angry over nothing? The useful info was pointing out that comparing vs a 10 ilvl drop on Draught gives an advantage to the trinkets he's comparing it against (and trying to replace it with), and that a number of trinkets were left out.

What useful info are you bringing to the table with this comment other than trying to stir shit up?

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man you got a bit angry for nothing? You do know Archimtiros is the one behind the fury guide on mmo-champion right? He wants this info as much as we do but he does wanna have them at bit of a straighter testing ilvl.

FWIW, I've already done all the testing and know exactly what trinkets are best right now, the question is what will happen tuning wise, since some are way overperforming others right now.

[ghostblade]

Angry over nothing? The useful info was pointing out that comparing vs a 10 ilvl drop on Draught gives an advantage to the trinkets he's comparing it against (and trying to replace it with), and that a number of trinkets were left out.

What useful info are you bringing to the table with this comment other than trying to stir shit up?

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FWIW, I've already done all the testing and know exactly what trinkets are best right now, the question is what will happen tuning wise, since some are way overperforming others right now.

realy? like how many are overperforming or is just a specific combo?

[Arbiter]

So? Why are you mentioning this, should be pretty obvious to most this was someone fooling around on the ptr, and some info not yet givin pretty interesting even if most of the data will probably change before release.

I mean seriously, you expect him to get trinkets from the new +15 or something while their on the pre or something? Get over yourself, what useful info are you really bringing to the table with this remark?

Not sure why you're so angry. No intelligent person would read OP's post and assume any of it has any truth to it. The only thing is honestly suggests is that Specter seems pretty OP and even that has to be taken with a grain of salt when looking at these "tests".

[deadmanfred]

Not sure why you're so angry. No intelligent person would read OP's post and assume any of it has any truth to it. The only thing is honestly suggests is that Specter seems pretty OP and even that has to be taken with a grain of salt when looking at these "tests".

Right exactly, why does he feel the need to negatively comment, just saying he's clearly overprotective of others doing therorycrafting... It's not archimtirosChamp.com. He should not be discouraging others, especially being that the UP never said it was final or anything just some clear fooling around. His comments like this usually (because of the power he holds as a stickied guide writer) makes others view any info this post might of had in a negative light. Why did he decide to hold info that he's already tested them himself, instead of saying something more along the lines of "I've done some fooling around myself and found similair/different results... we'll see in the coming weeks if it changes"

[Boyiee]

Right exactly, why does he feel the need to negatively comment, just saying he's clearly overprotective of others doing therorycrafting... It's not archimtirosChamp.com. He should not be discouraging others, especially being that the UP never said it was final or anything just some clear fooling around. His comments like this usually (because of the power he holds as a stickied guide writer) makes others view any info this post might of had in a negative light. Why did he decide to hold info that he's already tested them himself, instead of saying something more along the lines of "I've done some fooling around myself and found similair/different results... we'll see in the coming weeks if it changes"

You are correct it is not archimtirosChamp.com, but it is http://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/Archimtiros.

[Arbiter]

Right exactly, why does he feel the need to negatively comment, just saying he's clearly overprotective of others doing therorycrafting... It's not archimtirosChamp.com. He should not be discouraging others, especially being that the UP never said it was final or anything just some clear fooling around. His comments like this usually (because of the power he holds as a stickied guide writer) makes others view any info this post might of had in a negative light. Why did he decide to hold info that he's already tested them himself, instead of saying something more along the lines of "I've done some fooling around myself and found similair/different results... we'll see in the coming weeks if it changes"

He doesn't care if people do any theorycrafting. It's a matter of providing correct information based on accurate testing. A few select trinkets at varying ilvls and beating on a dummy for a few minutes one time for each combo is not theorycrafting and delivering it as such is only going to steer the people looking for information wrong.

He also wasn't rude at any kind. Complimented the work, but also just pointed out that it's not comprehensive by pointing out the faults to the testing. You're the one that got negative and rude.

He hasn't posted his findings because it's completely pointless to as things change and he SHOULD avoid posting them because it'll only spark a whinefest over information that's likely going to be tuned after the ToS testing is over with.

There isn't any point in arguing how he approached it either. He's his own person and it's not up to me or you on how he should speak in these forums. He was blunt and to the point in this post while his post was much more useful to the conversation than yours was. OP didn't need defending and he certainly doesn't need you to defend him.

Stop trying to stir up shit that didn't exist in the first place.

[Phookah]

Right exactly, why does he feel the need to negatively comment, just saying he's clearly overprotective of others doing therorycrafting... It's not archimtirosChamp.com. He should not be discouraging others, especially being that the UP never said it was final or anything just some clear fooling around. His comments like this usually (because of the power he holds as a stickied guide writer) makes others view any info this post might of had in a negative light. Why did he decide to hold info that he's already tested them himself, instead of saying something more along the lines of "I've done some fooling around myself and found similair/different results... we'll see in the coming weeks if it changes"

Because putting out info that is likely to change in the next week is stupid, and all it does it serve to confuse people who already don't know how to read a forum.

[LucasVolken]

FWIW, I've already done all the testing and know exactly what trinkets are best right now, the question is what will happen tuning wise, since some are way overperforming others right now.

Could you share that with us? I haven't seen anyone doing that, so I went to PTR and did it. I know my trinkets aren't optimal for this testing, and due to lack of time I couldn't test every trinket, but I tested a lot of them just posted the ones that were more interesting in my opinion I don't think posting tests using Vial of Ceaseless Toxins or Umbral Moonglaives were relevant since they're desingned for different situation, rather then pure single Target. I actually forgot to buy Engine so I missed testing it. My bad.

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He doesn't care if people do any theorycrafting. It's a matter of providing correct information based on accurate testing. A few select trinkets at varying ilvls and beating on a dummy for a few minutes one time for each combo is not theorycrafting and delivering it as such is only going to steer the people looking for information wrong.

He also wasn't rude at any kind. Complimented the work, but also just pointed out that it's not comprehensive by pointing out the faults to the testing. You're the one that got negative and rude.

He hasn't posted his findings because it's completely pointless to as things change and he SHOULD avoid posting them because it'll only spark a whinefest over information that's likely going to be tuned after the ToS testing is over with.

There isn't any point in arguing how he approached it either. He's his own person and it's not up to me or you on how he should speak in these forums. He was blunt and to the point in this post while his post was much more useful to the conversation than yours was. OP didn't need defending and he certainly doesn't need you to defend him.

Stop trying to stir up shit that didn't exist in the first place.

I think you're wrong when you say that people SHOULD avoid posting testing that they do. Blizzard put the Trinkets on PTR asking for feedback, I did some testing posted my feedback on official forums, and tried to put some word over here to see what people think about the new trinkets. I think not only Blizzard but Warrior community wants to know how the trinkets are interacting. The fact that tuning is still happening is irrelevant since this is an discussion that Blizzard developers themselves asked us to do.

[Arbiter]

I think you're wrong when you say that people SHOULD avoid posting testing that they do. Blizzard put the Trinkets on PTR asking for feedback, I did some testing posted my feedback on official forums, and tried to put some word over here to see what people think about the new trinkets. I think not only Blizzard but Warrior community wants to know how the trinkets are interacting. The fact that tuning is still happening is irrelevant since this is an discussion that Blizzard developers themselves asked us to do.

You can think whatever you want but my point still stands and for good reason. You can do testing without posting those findings here on MMOC. This isn't the blizzard feedback forum and anything posted here isn't going to change anything in game. If you have any concerns there is a feedback section for the PTR. Posting info like that here passing it off as anything remotely considered "testing" does more harm than good.

Even then what you did isn't testing. It's taking a few trinkets at varying ilvls and beating on a single target dummy one time to the best of your ability assuming that it was done perfectly. That's not testing and even if it was it's far from thorough. They're inaccurate and skewed results which do nothing positive for the community by posting them here as it's only going to give people inaccurate speculation. A single "test" on a target dummy doesn't account for any variables such as RNG and player error either.

[Deleted]

Good read, 10/10

[Deleted]

Here I am, thinking we get a good discussion going on about 7.2.5.

Foolish me.

[Roiids]

Here I am, thinking we get a good discussion going on about 7.2.5.

Foolish me.

Same... I was also curious about this last week and posted a topic. I have not been on PTR to see how far the orbs spawn for the engine of eradication but that looks solid. Best in TOS from just me eyeballing it though is the cradle of anguish while using Prydaz.

My guess is unless you are lucky and have a monster DOS, then cradle/engine would be best just as my guess. Obviously tuning changes are still likely to happen.

[Montegomery]

You can think whatever you want but my point still stands and for good reason. You can do testing without posting those findings here on MMOC. This isn't the blizzard feedback forum and anything posted here isn't going to change anything in game. If you have any concerns there is a feedback section for the PTR. Posting info like that here passing it off as anything remotely considered "testing" does more harm than good.

Even then what you did isn't testing. It's taking a few trinkets at varying ilvls and beating on a single target dummy one time to the best of your ability assuming that it was done perfectly. That's not testing and even if it was it's far from thorough. They're inaccurate and skewed results which do nothing positive for the community by posting them here as it's only going to give people inaccurate speculation. A single "test" on a target dummy doesn't account for any variables such as RNG and player error either.

The official forums are the proper place for giving Blizzard feedback, but if you're trying to find peers to review your tests, give suggestions, and discuss results you're not going to accomplish anything there. For better or worse MMO-C is the most obvious place to try to discuss findings, as this is where many prominent theorycrafters, guide-writers, and the like congregate.

The tests in this case might be flawed and the response to criticism moreso, but I'm strongly opposed to telling people they shouldn't test things on the PTR or try to discuss their results. Even though it may all change the effort is typically worthwhile as it lays the groundwork for understanding the changes. That some people might jump to conclusions or misunderstandings is a red herring, it might be a concern for someone like Archimtiros because of his position in the community but for essentially everyone else it shouldn't be a concern.

[Archimtiros]

I appreciate so many people trying to have arguments for (and often with) me without my input, but let's rein it in a little bit:

• Nobody ever said nobody else could test things.
• Nobody ever said nobody else should give feedback.
• Nobody ever said anyone couldn't add their thoughts on a given subject.

All I did was point out a few mistakes I found with the information presented. That is, in essence, feedback. I also didn't say whether his information was necessarily right or wrong (example: I pointed out his Draught was lower ilvl, which would skew results, but I didn't say that said results were necessarily invalid because of it). Finally, I would expect any other poster around here to respond to me the same way, pointing out issues with any testing that I share (and if you think they wouldn't, you've obviously never looked at some of the responses my posts get ).

Some of you more indignant folk need to take a step back, chill, and stop looking for reasons to start an argument expanding what others didn't even say. That already happens quite often enough on the General Off-Topic forums.

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Undocumented PTR change relevant to the above discussion:



For those of you who don't speak spell data - every Tomb of Sargeras DPS trinket just had its damage nerfed by 30% for Arms and Fury Warriors only, and for the record, this is exactly why I tend to avoid sharing much from PTR testing, at least until I'm relatively certain changes have been been finalized.