French Presidential Election, Vol. 2

[Macaquerie]

Well, if at all else, at least Trump's presidency has shown other countries that yes, voter apathy CAN lead to terrible things.

Hopefully the US will learn that same lesson come next election.

Their electoral system is also just better. Having a practice round where everyone can cast their protest votes and get a semi-binding preview of what the results will be before the for reals vote is such a great idea that I'm not sure why more countries don't do it.

Wasn't it a penal colony where people were basically sent off to die? that doesn't sound like a ton of support would be given.

Why would you spend all the money to transport convicts that far away if you just wanted them to die? It was a colonization project, they only used convicts because they couldn't convince any free men to go willingly.

[Mormolyce]

Well, if at all else, at least Trump's presidency has shown other countries that yes, voter apathy CAN lead to terrible things.

Hopefully the US will learn that same lesson come next election.

I guess with the consequences of putting a human fecal impaction like Trump in office being on display the world over on a daily basis, the 2016 fuckboy train has been severely derailed.

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I don't get it, rich boi Macron got more in common with rich boi Trump than Le Pen do, yet liberal media supported him and went against her???

You're a bit late to the party, the fake news bus already left.

[Torto]

Because having friends and allies is fucking useful, you would think an Australian of all people would understand that. Do you really think that your little bubble of Western civilization in the middle of the ocean could have possibly survived without immense levels of support from Britain and the USA?

Yes friends are great, we have the best friends in the world. But we don't ask the US, UK, UN or anyone else to run our country for us. We take pride in ourselves and our country. We don't need a conglomeration of foreign entities to tell us how to run our immigration policies, trade deals and foreign relations.

The fact we are signatory to virtually all of the UN charters pisses me off quite frankly.

[Skroe]

The home of pizzagate. And it's only downhill from there.

This is so true. Its so so true

[Torto]

Why would a federal government of Europe have to mean disbanding of local governments? The US that already is in such a would be position as a federal republic has local governments under the federal level, and are separate from one another for each state and acts with a degree of autonomy.

It doesn't, but that's the way it's heading. The UK could see this and have decided to take a step back and keep their sovereignty, and good for them. The French and Dutch should have done the same but they have decided to go all in with the EU ideal.

[NED funded]

but the polls were wrong before!!!

They were wrong this time as well. They underestimated by how much Macron would crush Le Pen!!!!!! En Marche!!!

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well, to admire the chilean sea you have to be alive in first place though, but hey, they also got a free ride to a beautiful island, called dawson!

I would die to get a free ride in a helicopter.

[Wikiy]

I've never understood why some people are so eager to surrender their sovereignty to a singular entity like the EU.

Why is it that you wish your country to remain whole? Why don't you want your state, province, whatever it may be, to be your country?

Because there's something binding you. A culture, a language, an ethnicity. These together we call nationality, of course. Europe is somewhat different. In Europe, all of this meant everything, right up until to the point where all of it ended up killing dozens of millions of people and ravaging entire countries. In essence, nationalism failed Europeans. That's why you generally wont find nationalistic Europeans. Somewhat patriotic - sure. Nationalistic? No.

So, what is it that Europeans have in common? Is it language? No. Is it culture? Eh, it could be argued somewhat that we do, but for the sake of the argument, I will say - no. Is it ethnicity? No. Nationality? No. What is it that Europeans have in common? The realization that nationality is actually not a good thing. I don't think this realization operates on a conscious level in a pro-federation European. I don't think he knows why he wants a federation. He just wants it.

I can only tell you what I personally feel and know. I know that there are huge numbers of people in my own country with whom I identify much less on so many things than I do with even huger numbers of people outside my country. I feel like there's no inherent special worth to my language, nor my culture, nor my ethnicity. I feel like knowledge and ideas are infinitely more precious. And these can be shared across borders. Thus, in an ideal world, borders are useless. Of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and we never will. However, that doesn't mean we can't strive to build one. Personally, a European federation, for me, is just a stop on that journey. Of course, I may not see that federation even happen, and if I do, I will definitely not see a united Earth, but that doesn't mean I can't help build a better future.

Is it because you have so little faith in your own leaders that you need foreign leaders in Brussels to tell you what to do?

You do not understand how the EU works. No one in the EU tells anyone what to do. The EU interferes very little in the policies of given countries, and when it does, it's approved either by the European Parliament (which is directly elected) or the leaders of the 28 countries, who are also directly elected. However, the system is not perfect. Everyone knows this, and everyone wants to improve it.

I'm curious to know how many of you would be happy to just have one central European government and all current European governments disbanded.

Mind you, this is from 2014. Quite a lot has happened since then.

Also, they wouldn't disband, same how every US state has some sort of parliament.

[JohnBrown1917]

A Chilean here!
great times indeed, some great helicopter times!

Trumpkins love that guy, he is only 2nd to the Donald.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Physical_Removal/

[Torto]

It because the concept of small nation states are dumb and outdated. The borders that seperate us are just something we do not like. We are an online community and in reality there's not much difference between us, Germans, French, Americans etc etc etc. It also doesn't matter to us where the capital is. London, Brussels, Strasbourg, Berlin, could be timbuckfuckingtu. We are the generation that studied the EU itself, we're the ones that don't buy into the lies about the commission being the power when it's the Elected national leaders and the elected parliament which hold all the cards. We've looked at how nationalism has caused misery in Europe through the history and asked ourselves "Is it worth the blood shed and horrors?" and we've answered in a resounding no.

But larger entities work better on the international table than smaller ones. UK, France, Germany are the three richest countries in europe. None of them alone will ever get a good equal deal with the likes of the US, China, India or other growing powers. Too small, little natural resources, not enough people. But united Europe can compete. It has 500m people mostly highly educated with 4th (Germany), 5th(France) and 6th(Britain) richest countries of the world within it. But with the rise of other larger nations those positions will be taken by them.

EU isn't perfect, but this whole national sovereignty we just find it well dumb. Since we know it really doesn't matter where the capital is.

So, in your perfect world there would be a singular world government supplanting individual nations. Like a UN with infinite power. Sounds more like a nightmare.

Also, centralisation of power or control does not translate to more efficient or effective government. In fact it means the complete opposite.

[JohnBrown1917]

It doesn't, but that's the way it's heading. The UK could see this and have decided to take a step back and keep their sovereignty, and good for them. The French and Dutch should have done the same but they have decided to go all in with the EU ideal.

Wilders election policies took up half a page... and you think he was a good choice?

[Wyrt]

I've never understood why some people are so eager to surrender their sovereignty to a singular entity like the EU. Is it because you have so little faith in your own leaders that you need foreign leaders in Brussels to tell you what to do? I'm curious to know how many of you would be happy to just have one central European government and all current European governments disbanded.

I agree. We should break up Germany back into a hundred different city-states constantly fighting each other for power. Was truly the best times, that's why we call it the Light Ages.

[Shadowmelded]

I've never understood why some people are so eager to surrender their sovereignty to a singular entity like the EU. Is it because you have so little faith in your own leaders that you need foreign leaders in Brussels to tell you what to do? I'm curious to know how many of you would be happy to just have one central European government and all current European governments disbanded.

If you don't understand what the EU is or how it works, why do you have such strong opinions about it? No one is saying national governments should be disbanded nor are they saying "give up all your sovereignty".

[NED funded]

Trumpkins love that guy, he is only 2nd to the Donald.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Physical_Removal/

:/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/

Canada was a mistake

[Puupi]

That pretty clearly tells you that if EU moves more in to the direction of a federation, the Nordics are out.

[Kallisto]

So, in your perfect world there would be a singular world government supplanting individual nations. Like a UN with infinite power. Sounds more like a nightmare.

Also, centralisation of power or control does not translate to more efficient or effective government. In fact it means the complete opposite.

In the long term yes it would be the perfect way to go as it would help push forward people without having to worry about little things like major conflicts. Certainly not something in the lifetime of ours or even our unborn grandchildren. But baby steps along the way.

Also what's to say it has infinite power, small regions can have their own federal entities to help run them. Like in the US and other federal nations. What's so special about super small countries that effectively have no say in the world and exist only because they're easier for bigger countries to manipulate or ignore than to conquer.

[Wyrt]

Trumpkins love that guy, he is only 2nd to the Donald.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Physical_Removal/

I assume they like him 2nd just because they can't like Hitler while still denying that they are nazis.

[Wikiy]

That pretty clearly tells you that if EU moves more in to the direction of a federation, the Nordics are out.

Opinions change. And the federation wont happen in 10 years. If it happens, it's going to be decades down the road, and quite a lot can happen in the meantime.

[Thepersona]

Trumpkins love that guy, he is only 2nd to the Donald.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Physical_Removal/

a guy that stole a fuckton of money?
wot?

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I assume they like him 2nd just because they can't like Hitler while still denying that they are nazis.

They would be shitting their pants if they knew that Pinochet dabbled with the Chinese government of that time... they were "allies"
and that soon after the coup (in 1975-1978) he became an enemy of the US... and that he embraced free trade and capitalism like no other
watch the movie chicago boyd (its a chilean one about the economic experiment of our country)

[Torto]

Why is it that you wish your country to remain whole? Why don't you want your state, province, whatever it may be, to be your country?

Because there's something binding you. A culture, a language, an ethnicity. These together we call nationality, of course. Europe is somewhat different. In Europe, all of this meant everything, right up until to the point where all of it ended up killing dozens of millions of people and ravaging entire countries. In essence, nationalism failed Europeans. That's why you generally wont find nationalistic Europeans. Somewhat patriotic - sure. Nationalistic? No.

So, what is it that Europeans have in common? Is it language? No. Is it culture? Eh, it could be argued somewhat that we do, but for the sake of the argument, I will say - no. Is it ethnicity? No. Nationality? No. What is it that Europeans have in common? The realization that nationality is actually not a good thing. I don't think this realization operates on a conscious level in a pro-federation European. I don't think he knows why he wants a federation. He just wants it.

I can only tell you what I personally feel and know. I know that there are huge numbers of people in my own country with whom I identify much less on so many things than I do with even huger numbers of people outside my country. I feel like there's no inherent special worth to my language, nor my culture, nor my ethnicity. I feel like knowledge and ideas are infinitely more precious. And these can be shared across borders. Thus, in an ideal world, borders are useless. Of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and we never will. However, that doesn't mean we can't strive to build one. Personally, a European federation, for me, is just a stop on that journey. Of course, I may not see that federation even happen, and if I do, I will definitely not see a united Earth, but that doesn't mean I can't help build a better future.



You do not understand how the EU works. No one in the EU tells anyone what to do. The EU interferes very little in the policies of given countries, and when it does, it's approved either by the European Parliament (which is directly elected) or the leaders of the 28 countries, who are also directly elected. However, the system is not perfect. Everyone knows this, and everyone wants to improve it.

Also, they wouldn't disband, same how every US state has some sort of parliament.

So basically what you are saying is because most Europeans are ashamed of their history they are quire eager to have their heritage and culture wiped out and replaced with something else. A central ideal or a merger of other cultures to over right your own. Is that why you allow a flood of migrants into your countries?

This is actually very sad.

[JohnBrown1917]

I agree. We should break up Germany back into a hundred different city-states constantly fighting each other for power. Was truly the best times, that's why we call it the Light Ages.

Break up Italy, the UK, the Netherlands and Spain too, while we are it.