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  1. #1

    Mythic Elisande - Tips for POST Nerf?

    Hey all! We unexpectedly killed Star Augur on our farm night so now we are facing a full night of Mythic Elisande. We have 0 attempts so far so I am looking specifically for tips and tricks post-nerf.

    Current plan...

    2 tanks (doh), 4 heal, 6-7 melee, 7-8 range (Question 1 - Is 7 melee too much? We have bench options but melee are high performers for us).

    P1 - Pull boss on outside to drop singularity. Move to blue add. No assigned interrupts yet, tank stand near blue, kill blue whenever because of 5 extra seconds (Question 2: Or still close to rings I suppose, how much do you worry post nerf?). Get 3 total rings. Kill only one blue and one red (Question 3: Is that correct, you only need to kill 1 of each add before phase?)

    P2 - Right before phase shift to outside of arena, drop singularity. Add 2 range interrupts to blue add. Nuke red add before it does anything significant. (Question 4: How many adds total do you kill in P2 now?) Assign two groups of soakers, first 5 people, second 6 people, to grab the orbs. Stop moving if you have beam on you, healing CD there as needed.

    P3 - Right before phase shift to outside of arena, drop singularity. Same as p2... the 2 range interrupt blue add, nuke red add before it does anything (melee kick if needed, then melee kickers shift to boss interrupts). Same two groups go out to soak orbs... (Question 5: Are rings in p3 still 5 orbs, then 6, or is it always 6 now?) And of course... Question 6: How many adds do you kill in p3?


    I am looking pretty specifically for tips on POST nerf timings with 4 healers, because all the videos and guides are pre-nerf so I am really curious how things will change. Most importantly I would like to know the # of adds you are killing each phase, so we have some breakpoints to shoot for tonight.

    Let me know if you think I missed anything or if you have any tips or tricks at all for us going in to this!!! Thank you so much.

    EDIT AFTER NIGHT 1 - We saw p3 which I suppose is good? We got p1 pretty down besides dying to rings. P2 however we are pretty consistently losing people to beams. We don't have a resto Shaman. Should we spread out more instead of stacking since we don't have spirit link? It's just wrecking us, that plus the second orb soak. Any idea what we can do better now that we have logs?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cynQ6vawKMWYFxdb
    Last edited by Broccoliz; 2017-05-08 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #2
    P1 - yes. We have people interrupting recursions on blue adds but if one goes off its not the end of the world. It allows 2 of the 4 healers to fully dps phase 1 though as there really isn't much going on.

    P2 - as soon as singularity goes out have first orb group get into position. Do the first adds like normal, and you can either choose to try and burn the boss before second set of orbs while interrupting blue (would need higher single target than the phase 1 push, not recommended), or you can kill 2 of each add (ranged focus blue melee focus pink) and then move him to the edge after dealing with the second set of orbs. Since a missed recursion in phase 2 = more delphuric beams it makes more sense to have ranged focus and kill the blue add.

    P3 - 5 orbs and then 6 orbs, its a direct echo of phase 2. We kill 2 blue and 2 pink in final phase, moving her over to the third/fourth blue add (they spawn on top of each other) for recursion kicks.

    As entire raids get concordance, the go-to strat may be to try and beat 3rd ring in phase 1, allowing you to dodge less and use second potion to skip second orbs, but I don't think we're quite there yet. It seems like more of an on-farm strat.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Drish View Post
    P1 - yes. We have people interrupting recursions on blue adds but if one goes off its not the end of the world. It allows 2 of the 4 healers to fully dps phase 1 though as there really isn't much going on.

    P2 - as soon as singularity goes out have first orb group get into position. Do the first adds like normal, and you can either choose to try and burn the boss before second set of orbs while interrupting blue (would need higher single target than the phase 1 push, not recommended), or you can kill 2 of each add (ranged focus blue melee focus pink) and then move him to the edge after dealing with the second set of orbs. Since a missed recursion in phase 2 = more delphuric beams it makes more sense to have ranged focus and kill the blue add.

    P3 - 5 orbs and then 6 orbs, its a direct echo of phase 2. We kill 2 blue and 2 pink in final phase, moving her over to the third/fourth blue add (they spawn on top of each other) for recursion kicks.

    As entire raids get concordance, the go-to strat may be to try and beat 3rd ring in phase 1, allowing you to dodge less and use second potion to skip second orbs, but I don't think we're quite there yet. It seems like more of an on-farm strat.
    Thank you so much for the great tips. Do you only worry about blue add kicks, or was there any time you assigned red or boss kicks? Also dumb question but I assume hero is still used in p1?

  4. #4
    Hero used in phase 1 yes.

    Blue adds kick recursion (don't worry so much about blast unless you have people really wanting to proc sephuz), Pink adds kick expedite, phase 3 have tanks kick the boss.

    There should be I think 2 interrupts on each of the first set of adds.
    5 Interrupts on the second blue in phase 1 (its focused in phase 2 so just have anyone do it you get far less)
    On expedite kicks just make sure its not someone soaking the first set of orbs, and to have melee ready to backup in the final phase incase of bad conflexives.

    Again in phase 1 if recursions go off its not as big a deal, just have to have the healers know that thats the plan so some pull off of dps'ing to heal.

  5. #5
    Phase 1 you are correct. Also after first ring you have ranged and healers stay outside to bait singularities, then do the same after the next set of double rings(alhough with current dps you will likely never even see this one). You can also add ranged interupts on the second blue that you don't kill if you want, it helps reduce damage so healers can dps more and you need interupt rotations for later phases anyway. I think we have 3 interupters for the main ability(forgot it's name) and rest are just ffa on blasts.

    Phase 2: At least kill 2 blue adds here, just to help staying alive. Honestly after the 3 rings just keep moving boss on top of blue adds and interupt them and cleave off boss, if they die it's not bad as it does help reduce damage. The fight is all about survivability right now, there are no dps checks outside of the phase 1 triple rings, just do everything you can to survive. You can assign people to soak although personally our guild found it better to just tell everyone to focus on it, that way we made sure we never missed one. Even when we first killed the boss(around world 90th) the dps check was quite insignificant so again I can really not state enough how if you want a quick kill on her, just tell everyone to focus on doing mechanics and surviving and not worrying about dps at all, if everyone is alive you could probably have your entire raid doing 10th percentile rankings and still kill it with plenty of time to spare.

    Phase 3 is pretty much the same as phase 2, only difference is the debuffs you have to move away with, just have someone call out who takes slow and who takes fast bubbles and tell them to go far away. You get more purple adds this phase compared to blue which actually makes it easier than phase 2, as blue are the annoying ones to deal with, red just gets cleaved down and boosts your dps.

    so TLDR, tell your raid to focus on doing mechanics and surviving rather than their dps and it's an easy kill.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drish View Post
    P1 - yes. We have people interrupting recursions on blue adds but if one goes off its not the end of the world. It allows 2 of the 4 healers to fully dps phase 1 though as there really isn't much going on.
    Am I missing something here? She does do a lot of unavoidable AOE damage, enough to occupy healers attention most of the time - and yet two of them are supposed to be dpsing? Recursion doesn't have anything to do with Cascadent Star, does it?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Am I missing something here? She does do a lot of unavoidable AOE damage, enough to occupy healers attention most of the time - and yet two of them are supposed to be dpsing? Recursion doesn't have anything to do with Cascadent Star, does it?
    It's not important anymore, but when we first started it pushing 3 rings was quite tricky, we were considering going 3 healers as that made it quite consistant but having 4 healers was nice for later phases so we managed to push it by just having 3 of the healers mostly just focusing on dps and the last doing most of the work, with the others only really throwing out occasional heals when really needed, and so in that case, every little bit of damage reduced helps.

    It's really not something you should worry about anymore though, just have healers focus on healing, making 3 rings is incredibly easy now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Am I missing something here? She does do a lot of unavoidable AOE damage, enough to occupy healers attention most of the time - and yet two of them are supposed to be dpsing? Recursion doesn't have anything to do with Cascadent Star, does it?
    Recursion will extend the dot on tanks, alleviating damage on them if you interrupt it. That said, two healers should be plenty to heal most of P1 - remember, they have bloodlust for the first 40 seconds, and then their own cooldowns to get through the next 20-30 or so. We usually had our "dps" healers start healing again when she ported away to do rings #2+3 on progress, as that's when the tailwind sort of petered out for our disc+resto druid.
    Oh yea, disc is insanely good for pretty much doing P1 if you have a boomkin or two; Being able to keep atonements on the entire raid for the duration of bloodlust with no real mana consumption due to innervates, while being hasted to do far more damage is *extremely* good, both for boss damage and raid healing.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...935&end=252941 That's P1 healing for the first ~1 minute of the fight (40 sec bl, 20 sec on own power), untill shaman starts healing again. Not sure what the fuck the paladin was doing as he was supposed to just dps, but either way, 40% of his healing is just passive (aura, prydaz, tyrs, judgement). We had the resto shaman just sit on the blue add interrupting it and throwing damage/heals towards the raid the best he could, to keep the 1 shots from happening towards the end.

    It's not impossible to do, but there's also a big chance that you won't NEED them to be dpsing. In which case, you're safer just having them actually heal for consistency purposes.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drish View Post
    Pink adds kick expedite

    On expedite kicks just make sure its not someone soaking the first set of orbs, and to have melee ready to backup in the final phase incase of bad conflexives.

    There's no need to ever kick expedite. And not kicking it actually beneficial since it makes for an easy orb team.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Squishei View Post
    There's no need to ever kick expedite.
    Hope you have tanks with godly reflexes and good class mobility then, these 2 second Ablating Explosions you need to gtfo from raid with were very funny.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoliz View Post
    2 tanks (doh), 4 heal, 6-7 melee, 7-8 range (Question 1 - Is 7 melee too much? We have bench options but melee are high performers for us).
    Our setup was 2 tanks 3 healers 8 ranged 7 melee.

    We had most problems with consistently soaking orbs in p2 (soakers would die randomly or not have a cd to soak a second round), in the end we used hero in p2 so we can skip second orbs and that gave us the kill.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoliz View Post
    Hey all! We unexpectedly killed Star Augur on our farm night so now we are facing a full night of Mythic Elisande. We have 0 attempts so far so I am looking specifically for tips and tricks post-nerf.

    Current plan...

    2 tanks (doh), 4 heal, 6-7 melee, 7-8 range (Question 1 - Is 7 melee too much? We have bench options but melee are high performers for us).

    P1 - Pull boss on outside to drop singularity. Move to blue add. No assigned interrupts yet, tank stand near blue, kill blue whenever because of 5 extra seconds (Question 2: Or still close to rings I suppose, how much do you worry post nerf?). Get 3 total rings. Kill only one blue and one red (Question 3: Is that correct, you only need to kill 1 of each add before phase?)

    P2 - Right before phase shift to outside of arena, drop singularity. Add 2 range interrupts to blue add. Nuke red add before it does anything significant. (Question 4: How many adds total do you kill in P2 now?) Assign two groups of soakers, first 5 people, second 6 people, to grab the orbs. Stop moving if you have beam on you, healing CD there as needed.

    P3 - Right before phase shift to outside of arena, drop singularity. Same as p2... the 2 range interrupt blue add, nuke red add before it does anything (melee kick if needed, then melee kickers shift to boss interrupts). Same two groups go out to soak orbs... (Question 5: Are rings in p3 still 5 orbs, then 6, or is it always 6 now?) And of course... Question 6: How many adds do you kill in p3?


    I am looking pretty specifically for tips on POST nerf timings with 4 healers, because all the videos and guides are pre-nerf so I am really curious how things will change. Most importantly I would like to know the # of adds you are killing each phase, so we have some breakpoints to shoot for tonight.

    Let me know if you think I missed anything or if you have any tips or tricks at all for us going in to this!!! Thank you so much.
    We killed it tonight with 4 healers.

    1: I don't think melee heavy is particularly a problem just means healers are soaking orbs.
    2: Blue add needs to die with less than 10 seconds on arcanetic ring timer. We had 3 total rings.
    3: One of each add in p1, ignore the rest. Recursion doesn't do much in the first phase other than reset tank debuffs. Expedite makes them tick harder, probably bad and easy to interrupt.
    4: 2 Recursive adds, 2 Expeditious Adds. Now the recursion interrupt is super important because if one goes off during Delphuric beam you're right fucked.
    5: 5 then 6.
    6: 2 Recursive, 2 Expeditious. Phase 3 is just phase 2 with conflexive bursts and some extra spot healing. Blow a million raid coodowns during the first beams because conflexive bursts are exploding during it.

    Also we always kicked expedite just for tank debuffs. The suddenly mega fast conflexives and torments seem like they could be bad too.

    Video of post-fix timings if it helps.

    Last edited by Nitros14; 2017-05-08 at 05:22 AM.

  12. #12
    Is two hunters enough to always interrupt Recursive from the blue add?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbypro View Post
    Is two hunters enough to always interrupt Recursive from the blue add?
    Two mages can do it with counterspell, hunter cooldown is similar I think?

  14. #14
    Yep should be 24 sec on both hunter & mage.

  15. #15
    EDIT AFTER NIGHT 1 - We saw p3 which I suppose is good? We got p1 pretty down besides dying to rings. P2 however we are pretty consistently losing people to beams. We don't have a resto Shaman. Should we spread out more instead of stacking since we don't have spirit link? It's just wrecking us, that plus the second orb soak. Any idea what we can do better now that we have logs?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cynQ6vawKMWYFxdb

  16. #16
    I think if you're too far from the boss it can be hard to see if you're in 2 beams, which is usually where deaths happen. We started asking people to move closer so they can see the beams more clearly, we don't have spirit link either. It'll probably just come down to execution on not getting hit by more than one beam at a time and that takes practice.

    The beams are much worse in p3 because conflexive bursts are exploding during them, so you'll definitely want to sort that out.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2017-05-08 at 09:51 PM.

  17. #17
    We are getting a double blue add spawn in P2, is this a bug or something we are doing wrong? Blue add number 5 spawns and then a few seconds later blue add 6 spawns literally right on top of it. That's the second blue add in P2, with third add seconds later.

  18. #18
    i see several logs like this where melee chase boss after jump and somehow avoid ring damage... smth like in this log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...11&view=replay


    when i try to chase boss i take ring damage every time... may be somebody know the trick?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dmfg View Post
    We are getting a double blue add spawn in P2, is this a bug or something we are doing wrong? Blue add number 5 spawns and then a few seconds later blue add 6 spawns literally right on top of it. That's the second blue add in P2, with third add seconds later.
    It should be third and fourth add in p2 (hence number 5 and 6), but that's how the fight works. You can't affect it in any way.

  20. #20
    How to deal with high stack Blast casts from the blue add trucking people in phase 1?

    I assume its not too hard to deal with in phase 2 and 3 since the add gets cleaved down?

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